Author Topic: Geraldo on liberals  (Read 1453 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Geraldo on liberals
« on: February 22, 2015, 06:58:50 AM »
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/geraldo-rivera-liberals-yearn-tv/2015/02/13/id/624798/

Excerpt from the article, where Geraldo sums up his thoughts on liberals:

"The problem with the left is that they think they are the smartest ones in the room," he said. "They should never anoint anyone.

"Conservatives buy books written by conservatives, but liberals don't buy books by other liberals," he added. "They say: 'I know that already. I'm as smart as that person. I should be the center of attention'

"There is this kind of ego: 'I'm right, you're wrong.'"


I remember seeing him say this on O'Reilly's show and thinking how much he had nailed it. 

And the funny is, while I know some think I am more conservative than liberal, I am really not.  My views have really shifted over the years, to where I lean a bit more left than right these days, but the attitude of the average hardcore liberal is so much like how Geraldo described it, that I'd be embarrassed to call myself a liberal, even though I have a lot of liberal beliefs.  I know some will chime in and disagree, and I am not talking about anybody specific here when I say this, but I know quite a few people in real life who fit his description to a 't.'  Now, maybe they are the exceptions rather than the rule, but I just know that when he said that, I immediately thought of four or five liberals I know that are exactly like that.  Yeah, four or five is a pretty small sample size :lol, but let's not act like those four or five people I know are the only ones in the world.  Whenever I see any kind of argument on social media about anything (which I read, but almost never get involved with), you can always tell who the hardcore liberals are, because their comments drip with that kind of attitude that Geraldo was talking about.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2015, 08:38:02 AM »
  Obama voters think Hillary is the anti-christ.


Huh?  I am gonna need to see that one unpacked a little bit.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2015, 08:52:56 AM »
Eh, primaries often get ugly, but I think you're kidding yourself if you think the vast majority of Obama voters think Hillary is the anti-christ.

And most of those Obama voters will likely vote for her in November 2016 when she's the democratic nominee for president. 

I think it will be interesting how much Obama is part of Hillary's campaign.  Similar to how McCain kind of distanced himself from Bush in '08, I think she will do the same with Obama next year, although a lot can still happen in the next year and change.  I think it's obvious that the Obamas and Clintons do not like each other, but when it comes to politics, strange bedfellows often emerge.  :lol

Offline soundgarden

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2015, 09:12:00 AM »
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/geraldo-rivera-liberals-yearn-tv/2015/02/13/id/624798/

Excerpt from the article, where Geraldo sums up his thoughts on liberals:

"The problem with the left is that they think they are the smartest ones in the room," he said. "They should never anoint anyone.

"Conservatives buy books written by conservatives, but liberals don't buy books by other liberals," he added. "They say: 'I know that already. I'm as smart as that person. I should be the center of attention'

"There is this kind of ego: 'I'm right, you're wrong.'"


I remember seeing him say this on O'Reilly's show and thinking how much he had nailed it. 

And the funny is, while I know some think I am more conservative than liberal, I am really not.  My views have really shifted over the years, to where I lean a bit more left than right these days, but the attitude of the average hardcore liberal is so much like how Geraldo described it, that I'd be embarrassed to call myself a liberal, even though I have a lot of liberal beliefs.  I know some will chime in and disagree, and I am not talking about anybody specific here when I say this, but I know quite a few people in real life who fit his description to a 't.'  Now, maybe they are the exceptions rather than the rule, but I just know that when he said that, I immediately thought of four or five liberals I know that are exactly like that.  Yeah, four or five is a pretty small sample size :lol, but let's not act like those four or five people I know are the only ones in the world.  Whenever I see any kind of argument on social media about anything (which I read, but almost never get involved with), you can always tell who the hardcore liberals are, because their comments drip with that kind of attitude that Geraldo was talking about.

Err, I think Geraldo is way off.  People on both sides tend to buy books and read from people they have similar ideas and mentalities, especially when the other side continually proposes the same ideas over and over. 

Do you buy literature on neo-nazism?  Probably not; but not because you think you are "smarter" than them; but rather their ideas are so far away yours and you need the time better spent. 

The left is fully aware of conservative response to all the nation's and planet's problems.  Why bother wasting time?  I use to read David Brook's column on the NY Times but gave up.  He's become a broken recorder now.

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2015, 03:10:11 PM »
It's more that the right is moving more to the right and the left is moving far to the left.  People are making politics black and white.  The gray in which they both need to work together is disappearing.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2015, 03:38:44 PM »
Subdivisions are the cause of not coming to a middle ground agreement.  Why not just implore concepts from all political parties?
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Offline Lucien

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2015, 03:56:32 PM »
It's more that the right is moving more to the right and the left is moving far to the left.  People are making politics black and white.  The gray in which they both need to work together is disappearing.

Wasn't this idea of working together on common ground the ENTIRE REASON America developed a 2-party system? It seems that can never happen again.
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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2015, 05:48:33 PM »
It's more that the right is moving more to the right and the left is moving far to the left.  People are making politics black and white.  The gray in which they both need to work together is disappearing.

Wasn't this idea of working together on common ground the ENTIRE REASON America developed a 2-party system? It seems that can never happen again.

It sure seems like it.  It's a 4 year race to get their man in the White House and not what's best for the country.  Vote against is the only answer in their eyes.
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

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Offline The King in Crimson

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 09:53:15 PM »
Geraldo Rivera has douchey thing to say about the left. News at 11.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2015, 10:19:11 PM »
It's a sad state when we need to rely on a goofball gimmick like Geraldo for accuracy and good reporting.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2015, 10:48:08 PM »
Average voter directed by media = problem
Informed voter = simply frustrated

It isn't going to get better.  Just worse.

Unfortunately I have to agree. It's scary though.  I'm unsettled by the options out there when it comes to possible candidates for the next election. My political sway is generally more conservative with a touch of libertarianism and I don't see any hope on the horizon. I'm surrounded by RINOs like Newt Gingrich and John McCain and I'm completely frustrated. 

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2015, 11:00:10 PM »
It is too soon for me to decide.

On a side note, at about the same time frame for the 2008 election (early 2007), somebody asked me who I am eyeing as the possible best.  I said "this Obama guy seems very interesting.  I'm leaning toward him."  By the time the primaries rolled around, I did a 180 and was telling them "anybody but Obama.  This guy is Bush part 2."

I'll give Obama that much.  In the beginning he was very well spoken but you could tell by later on in the primaries that was his ruse.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2015, 06:52:14 AM »
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/geraldo-rivera-liberals-yearn-tv/2015/02/13/id/624798/

Excerpt from the article, where Geraldo sums up his thoughts on liberals:

"The problem with the left is that they think they are the smartest ones in the room," he said. "They should never anoint anyone.

"Conservatives buy books written by conservatives, but liberals don't buy books by other liberals," he added. "They say: 'I know that already. I'm as smart as that person. I should be the center of attention'

"There is this kind of ego: 'I'm right, you're wrong.'"


I remember seeing him say this on O'Reilly's show and thinking how much he had nailed it. 

And the funny is, while I know some think I am more conservative than liberal, I am really not.  My views have really shifted over the years, to where I lean a bit more left than right these days, but the attitude of the average hardcore liberal is so much like how Geraldo described it, that I'd be embarrassed to call myself a liberal, even though I have a lot of liberal beliefs.  I know some will chime in and disagree, and I am not talking about anybody specific here when I say this, but I know quite a few people in real life who fit his description to a 't.'  Now, maybe they are the exceptions rather than the rule, but I just know that when he said that, I immediately thought of four or five liberals I know that are exactly like that.  Yeah, four or five is a pretty small sample size :lol, but let's not act like those four or five people I know are the only ones in the world.  Whenever I see any kind of argument on social media about anything (which I read, but almost never get involved with), you can always tell who the hardcore liberals are, because their comments drip with that kind of attitude that Geraldo was talking about.
I have no idea what you are talking about.  Geraldo is now, and is generally, full of shit.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 07:15:27 AM »
Eh, primaries often get ugly, but I think you're kidding yourself if you think the vast majority of Obama voters think Hillary is the anti-christ.

And most of those Obama voters will likely vote for her in November 2016 when she's the democratic nominee for president. 

The first statement doesn't bear on the second statement.

I lived in the City of Philadelphia at the time of the first Obama campaign, and my local bar was literaelly three doors down from the Obama headquarters.   I had only a passing interest at the time, because I didn't yet get the overwhelming wave of ground support for the junior Senator from Illinois (though I learned quickly) but there is NO love lost between the hard core faithful.

Yes, most Obama voters will vote for Hillary in 2016, but it isn't because of love and devotion, it will be out of the more base "she's better than the alternative" claptrap you hear almost every year. 

Quote
I think it will be interesting how much Obama is part of Hillary's campaign.  Similar to how McCain kind of distanced himself from Bush in '08, I think she will do the same with Obama next year, although a lot can still happen in the next year and change.  I think it's obvious that the Obamas and Clintons do not like each other, but when it comes to politics, strange bedfellows often emerge.  :lol

Well, I think you answered your own question, though I think McCain isn't the best example in the world.   A better one is actually Obama and Clinton in '08.   Obama went to great lengths in the primary to establish himself as different than the "Democrat establishment" as embodied by Clinton vicariously through her husband (but it was justified by her assertion that she was "plugged in").   It will be an interesting dynamic for Hillary, who has to walk a pretty fine line between taking the good from her time as First Lady, disgarding the bad, accepting the lessons learned from the Obama term, but not appearing to be a carbon-copy.   Al Gore couldn't do it.  I don't envy her at all, and as far as legacies go, I think Jeb has a much easier time of it in that regard.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2015, 07:28:32 AM »
It's more that the right is moving more to the right and the left is moving far to the left.  People are making politics black and white.  The gray in which they both need to work together is disappearing.

Wasn't this idea of working together on common ground the ENTIRE REASON America developed a 2-party system? It seems that can never happen again.

I wasn't around then, but it was less this camaraderie of "working together on common ground" than it was so that voices were heard.   Remember too that at that time, with a nascent nation, there really was only one real issue:  the power of the States versus the power of the Federal Government, and everything seemed to flow from that.   

Personally, the "tragedy of the commons" notwithstanding, I think you will see us move back to that paradigm before the empire collapses.  I think more than ever before in history you have individual issues being paraded around as having merit on their own (which, in some cases they do) but which are also being used as a doppelganger for the underlying issue that has never really gone away (though which has been morphed to be more complex than simply "States vs. Feds").   But the discussion of issues on their own misses both the underlying issue AND the complexity of tying all these issues together into a consistent and cohesive package.  A great example here is the Minimum Wage; I am ostensibly against the raising of the Minimum Wage, not because I think it's an unwarranted raise, not because I am a heartless conservative looking to protect the rich corporations, or any of those tropes that people love to toss at the right.  But just arbitrarily jacking up the number, without any look at unemployment, any look at healthcare (which is or can be a benefit to both the person and to the collective), any look at how we are going to move these people that aren't 16-year-old working at Chik-Fil-A out of minimum wage positions... and it simply becomes an issue of "I don't want to fund that without some understanding of why the problem exists at all, so that we aren't in this same boat in three years time and nothing having changed".  You say that, and people's eyes glaze over. 


But then again, that doesn't fit into a cute, snarky Twitter soundbite.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2015, 11:07:11 AM »
It's more that the right is moving more to the right and the left is moving far to the left.  People are making politics black and white.  The gray in which they both need to work together is disappearing.
The left moving to the left is news to me. Seems to me the entire spectrum is shifting to the right. Hell, at this point St. Reagan would be a moderate at best, and probably a slightly left-leaning one at that.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2015, 02:32:04 PM »
The left moving to the left is news to me.

That kind of shows a bias then.
I don't think so.  The left isn't as far left as it used to be.  A lot of conservatives talk about how liberal Obama is; meanwhile real liberals bitch about how far right Obama is.

The majority of the Democratic Party is not as far left as the the majority of the Republican Party is far right.  IMHO.
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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2015, 02:45:06 PM »
IDK.  I've seen quite a few friends lean far, far left and far far right  I see a slow divide in just my friends circle of late and you see it in politics much more now.  So little bipartisanship in the last 12 years.     

Though, the Republican's made their their last nominee lean far right when he was the most liberal Republican come through in a long, long time.  He was just wooden as a stick you most voters.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2015, 09:51:37 AM »
So getting back to Numbnuts's position, I've always thought that the two parties attracted different sorts of people. Much like the democrats will attract a certain subset of the lazy, the republican platform (as presented, at least) is attractive to a subset of the stupid. To many an ideology that tends to simplify things down to black and white terms is very compelling. Not everybody is comfortable with nuance and graytones, and the GOP platform is certainly targeted to those individuals. The effect of that is the people who appreciate the complexity of politics will often move to the left, where it seems to be embraced (or at least not frowned upon). I certainly don't think I'm the smartest person in the room, but more importantly, I also understand that even if I am (as is the case today at work), I'm also smart enough to know that it doesn't make me right and it doesn't make the moron 20 feet to my right wrong if we discus something. He might actually be able to proffer up something useful with regards to, let's say ISIL, but if he refuses to move beyond the simple "kill them all and we win" mentality then it's pretty hard to not write him off as a jackass.

At the end of the day I don't know if I'm smarter than Geraldo or not, and more importantly I do know that it makes no difference. At the same time I have no respect whatsoever for people that can't consider concepts once they move beyond "you're with us or you're against us!" and that seems to be a pretty big chunk of the right nowadays. Shame, honestly.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2015, 11:07:23 AM »
So getting back to Numbnuts's position, I've always thought that the two parties attracted different sorts of people. Much like the democrats will attract a certain subset of the lazy, the republican platform (as presented, at least) is attractive to a subset of the stupid. To many an ideology that tends to simplify things down to black and white terms is very compelling.

I wrote the second response before this one, and I don't think I'm going to go back and edit it, so it might read disjointedly, but I think again that it takes different forms.  Even if you ignore the idea (gaining popularity based on recent research) that to some degree political affiliation is a matter of heredity, there's no question the parties attract different kinds of people, but this conversation can't be limited (or rather, be allowed to degenerate) into a defense of disparaging the other side.   I think that the conversation has to be in the context of "what are the parties for?", which doesn't happen enough.  We're often quick to criticize the two-party system as being too rigid, to constricting, too lacking in nuance, but if you think about the roles parties play beyond just pushing individual agenda items, especially the idea of a counterweight, so that even the best ideas are tested appropriately and tempered so that they aren't abused, it might start to make a lot more sense.

Quote
At the end of the day I don't know if I'm smarter than Geraldo or not, and more importantly I do know that it makes no difference. At the same time I have no respect whatsoever for people that can't consider concepts once they move beyond "you're with us or you're against us!" and that seems to be a pretty big chunk of the right nowadays. Shame, honestly.

Can I push back a little on that last comment?  I don't think the "YWUOYAU" idea is exclusive to the right, I just think it takes different forms.   With the exception of the Born-again Christians I encountered regularly in Atlanta, I don't think I've ever been guilted and shamed as much as I was by the agenda-pushing liberals I encountered in Philadelphia.   They may not have openly said as much, but the contempt and disgust that would register once you indicated that you had ANY qualifications to the agenda item being pimped - as a matter of basic human rights! Always a matter of basic human rights! - acted every bit as much as a form of YWUOYAU.   All YWUOYAU is really just a manifest of "I'm not willing to compromise", and the right has no monopoly on that. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2015, 11:24:02 AM »
Good posts. I suppose at the end of the day the two-party system actually is just a manifestation of the oversimplification down to binary thinking.

For your second (as posted) paragraph, that's a good example. I think where I'm seeing a difference is that the "basic human rights" thing seems to me to be a bit more organic. From my perspective I haven't seen politicians and pundits pushing that on us. It just seems to be what liberals eventually resolve to. Likewise, the politicians and pundits on the right seem to be pushing YWUOYAU as a starting point. Again, just my POV, but that's how it's coming across to me.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2015, 08:05:34 AM »
Good posts. I suppose at the end of the day the two-party system actually is just a manifestation of the oversimplification down to binary thinking.

For your second (as posted) paragraph, that's a good example. I think where I'm seeing a difference is that the "basic human rights" thing seems to me to be a bit more organic. From my perspective I haven't seen politicians and pundits pushing that on us. It just seems to be what liberals eventually resolve to. Likewise, the politicians and pundits on the right seem to be pushing YWUOYAU as a starting point. Again, just my POV, but that's how it's coming across to me.

Not arguing, and I understand where you are coming from, but aren't - deep at their heart - the "BHR" and "YWUOYAU" arguments really just a failsafe when the argument on the merits fails or gets no traction?   Because both are far more emotional and visceral than cerebral.   I mean - assuming you truly believe the issue is a matter of "BHR" (which is where they often lose me) - it's awful hard to argue against that, isn't it?  And when someone does, it's awful easy to then target them personally.   

Offline El Barto

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2015, 08:48:11 AM »
Rather than a deliberate failsafe, I see them as the base reduction of greater issues. There eventually comes a point where you've covered all of the nuances and what remains is simply a choice between alternatives. I suppose it could be a result of laziness (tired of the discussion), stupidity (unable to grasp the concepts) or something that's arrived at more honestly (all the bases are covered and you just have to choose). My concern is with starting at that bottom line without attempting to cover the outlying factors. By eliminating the important bits you're sucking in the stupid.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2015, 11:39:05 AM »
Rather than a deliberate failsafe, I see them as the base reduction of greater issues. There eventually comes a point where you've covered all of the nuances and what remains is simply a choice between alternatives. I suppose it could be a result of laziness (tired of the discussion), stupidity (unable to grasp the concepts) or something that's arrived at more honestly (all the bases are covered and you just have to choose). My concern is with starting at that bottom line without attempting to cover the outlying factors. By eliminating the important bits you're sucking in the stupid.

Well, that's all right on the nose, but I would argue that the choice is a false one, or at least one burdened by semantics.  I know for me personally, I get sucked into the wrong side of that "false choice" often.  I'm constantly put in the position where I have to argue that what one calls a "basic human right" doesn't mean that the right is completely without restriction and completely without budget and completely without compromise.   There is not one fundamental right enumerated in the Constitution that is completely and utterly without limit, even the right to life (self-defense; capital punishment; abortion depending on your opinion on that pesky question of "when does life begin?").   I am adamantly against the ACA, for numerous reasons, but I agree wholeheartedly that in the United States of America circa 2015, access to basic healthcare services is indeed a basic human right.  That doesn't defacto mean that the ACA is an optimal, or even adequate means of delivering on that promise. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2015, 12:15:44 PM »
Venturing into the philosophical here with where rights come from, but yeah, I certainly agree.
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Re: Geraldo on liberals
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2015, 02:31:44 PM »
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/geraldo-rivera-liberals-yearn-tv/2015/02/13/id/624798/

Excerpt from the article, where Geraldo sums up his thoughts on liberals:

"The problem with the left is that they think they are the smartest ones in the room," he said. "They should never anoint anyone.

"Conservatives buy books written by conservatives, but liberals don't buy books by other liberals," he added. "They say: 'I know that already. I'm as smart as that person. I should be the center of attention'

"There is this kind of ego: 'I'm right, you're wrong.'"


I remember seeing him say this on O'Reilly's show and thinking how much he had nailed it. 

And the funny is, while I know some think I am more conservative than liberal, I am really not.  My views have really shifted over the years, to where I lean a bit more left than right these days, but the attitude of the average hardcore liberal is so much like how Geraldo described it, that I'd be embarrassed to call myself a liberal, even though I have a lot of liberal beliefs.  I know some will chime in and disagree, and I am not talking about anybody specific here when I say this, but I know quite a few people in real life who fit his description to a 't.'  Now, maybe they are the exceptions rather than the rule, but I just know that when he said that, I immediately thought of four or five liberals I know that are exactly like that.  Yeah, four or five is a pretty small sample size :lol , but let's not act like those four or five people I know are the only ones in the world.  Whenever I see any kind of argument on social media about anything (which I read, but almost never get involved with), you can always tell who the hardcore liberals are, because their comments drip with that kind of attitude that Geraldo was talking about.
I have no idea what you are talking about.  Geraldo is now, and is generally, full of shit.


This sums up my thoughts quite nicely.  :tup