Author Topic: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?  (Read 3330 times)

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Offline Kotowboy

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Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« on: February 22, 2015, 01:33:30 AM »
Here is an interesting question. Barring a few examples ( Wrath Of Khan,  Judgement Day, BTTF 2 for Blob ) - most sequels are nowhere near as good as the first movie.

Why is that ? If it's the same cast and crew and writing team etc . . They're essentially just doing the same thing again.

Why do so many sequels not live up to the first one ?

is it because the 1st script might have been worked on for ages and you get a limited time to write the 2nd ?

Are you essentially trying to recapture lightning in a bottle ?

Offline Jaffa

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2015, 01:42:06 AM »
They're essentially just doing the same thing again.

Well, there ya go.  For the original movie, everything is fresh.  The cast is working together for the first time, and sparks are flying.  The writing team is excited for a new project.  The second movie won't have quite the same level of novelty, and the energy will be different.

Of course, that's not always the case.  I don't think you'll find one explanation that covers all sequels.  There are lots of variables. 

I also think it's worth mentioning that sometimes the popularity of a sequel has nothing to do with the sequel itself, and everything to do with how attached people are to the original.  If the original is held in extremely high regard, the sequel has high expectations to live up to, and that can be difficult if people have a strong attachment to the original.  Again, this isn't always the case, but I think it does happen sometimes.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2015, 01:53:45 AM »
I think a major reason, especially these days, is because sequels are often motivated purely by money, and not by having more story to tell. Any movie that does well has to have a sequel now, so you end up with sequels devoid of new ideas, because they just want a movie to appeal to the same audience again. If it worked once, they figure it will work again. Never mind that it's just empty rehash.

Barring sequels that are just crap, I think it's a matter of expectations too. For the first movie, you have no preconceptions, because you don't know what you're getting yet. A sequel has expectations and everyone has a different idea of what direction the sequel should take. I don't think you can win.

Just look at Terminator 2, one of the best sequels of all time. There are still people who don't like it that much, because Arnie is a good guy, and it's not gritty enough. You can't please everyone.
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Offline Zantera

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2015, 02:33:50 AM »
I think there are several sequels that you could make a case for being better than the original. Terminator 2, Godfather Part 2, Aliens, Return of the King, Spider-Man 2, X-Men 2, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, The Dark Knight, The Empire Strikes Back, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Fast & Furious 5 or 6, the list goes on.

Offline ariich

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2015, 02:39:13 AM »
Yeah I also agree that it's not just "a few exceptions".

Ariich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2015, 02:45:21 AM »
I think there are several sequels that you could make a case for being better than the original. Terminator 2, Godfather Part 2, Aliens, Return of the King, Spider-Man 2, X-Men 2, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, The Dark Knight, The Empire Strikes Back, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Fast & Furious 5 or 6, the list goes on.

I'd even say many of those are considered better by the majority.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2015, 04:19:09 AM »
I think there are several sequels that you could make a case for being better than the original. Terminator 2, Godfather Part 2, Aliens, Return of the King, Spider-Man 2, X-Men 2, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, The Dark Knight, The Empire Strikes Back, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Fast & Furious 5 or 6, the list goes on.

Spot on Jimmy.


I think sequels to bad films are the problem.  Great first movies usually lead to a very good second film.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2015, 05:41:15 AM »
Usually when sequels are really good, it's when they are a continuation of the story (Back to the Future, The Godfather, Rocky, etc.), instead of just trying to write another story using the same characters (The Hangover, for example).

Offline Zantera

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2015, 06:03:26 AM »
I think Comedy sequels generally are the worst, because it's usually just the same movie again. If you take movies like Terminator or Matrix, those movies work on their own, but they also introduce these elements and plot points that you could develop and study further in a sequel. With a comedy it's hard to achieve that. So it basically just becomes a "lets get the same gang together, and have more crazy stuff happening!". There's probably a few exceptions like with most things, but I think in general it might be easier to make sequels to action, sci-fi or horror movies (for example), because there's more elements you can explore further.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2015, 06:07:33 AM »
Yep, comedic sequels are almost always not good.  Caddyshack and Anchorman are two of the funniest movies ever, and both had terrible sequels. 

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2015, 06:28:54 AM »
Kev never speak of Caddyshack II in the same sentence as Caddyshack ever again or I'll report you. :lol
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 11:11:12 AM by kingshmegland »
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So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2015, 06:40:16 AM »
 :lol :lol

Offline jjrock88

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2015, 07:22:26 AM »
I'm still flaburgasted that they made Weekend at Bernies part 2

Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2015, 08:10:29 AM »
I think a major reason, especially these days, is because sequels are often motivated purely by money, and not by having more story to tell. Any movie that does well has to have a sequel now, so you end up with sequels devoid of new ideas, because they just want a movie to appeal to the same audience again. If it worked once, they figure it will work again. Never mind that it's just empty rehash.

We have a winner.  Same reason reboots suck, as well as most big blockbuster summertime popcorn movies are crap as well.
     

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2015, 11:00:30 AM »
A great sequel either has to:
- take the same characters (some or all of them) and make a new story, normally one of the same genre/tone/nature as the first, that works just as well, if not better than the first, yet on its own terms. Later stories need to hold as much weight and importance to the characters and the audience as the first, otherwise, they're just a waste of time.
OR
- be written in a way that they're NOT a new story that's been tacked on, but a continuation of a greater narrative that was begun in the first film. (Both/all parts of the story need to simultaneously feel like an at least semi-complete story in and of themselves). I would say in most cases where this is done successfully, there was a larger story planned out from the very beginning.

I personally think both of these are waaaaay harder to achieve than people really consider.

Offline jjrock88

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2015, 11:57:22 AM »
I know it got terrible reviews and I would be in the minority, but I enjoyed Dumb and Dumber To. Expectations were obviously sky high, but I thought it complimented the original fine.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2015, 06:33:29 PM »
Sharknado.

A film that should never have even been made let alone have two sequels.

I couldn't last 5 mins of the first film. They think they're trying to be all satirical and meta but it just comes across as trying too hard and failing miserably to

be a cult hit.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2015, 06:35:31 PM »
Sharknado was incredibad, and the movie only got funnier as it went on. If there was any doubt, the sequel was more self aware about its own stupidity, and just as much fun.
But obviously that kind of movie isn't for everyone, especially the humourless. :P
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2015, 06:48:51 PM »
Oh so the reason I couldn't watch it wasn't because it was absolute shite - it's because I have no sense of humour ?

Gotcha.

Is your favourite movie Adam Sandler's Jack & Jill ? :)

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2015, 06:51:51 PM »
I actually can't stand modern comedy movies. :lol

Obviously the movie was shit, but that's the fun of it, it's entertaining shit! If I want to watch a good movie, I don't watch Sharknado. If I want to watch a fun movie, I don't watch Schindler's List. Every movie has its place.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2015, 06:52:40 PM »
I couldn't get past the terrible CGI :p

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2015, 06:58:02 PM »
YOU KIDS THESE DAYS ARE ALL ABOUT THE VISUALS! BUT IT'S ABOUT THE STORY......... ok, no, but it's about learning about sharks and tornadoes and science.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2015, 07:46:54 PM »
I was a bit displeased when Wil Wheaton was in the 2nd one. I'd thought he'd have more sense to stay away.


I know it's just a bit of fun - but he doesn't really need the role or the cool points. He's like the number one geek.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2015, 07:50:30 PM »
Wil Wheaton has zero cool points. He's Wil Wheaton. :lol

And it was a two second cameo at the start of the movie before he was ripped apart by a shark on a plane. It seems like exactly the kind of thing a guy like Wil Wheaton would do, someone who doesn't take themselves too seriously.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2015, 07:54:18 PM »
Yep, comedic sequels are almost always not good.  Caddyshack and Anchorman are two of the funniest movies ever, and both had terrible sequels.

 :rollin

Caddyshack 2:  I was literally banging my head into the movie theater seat in front of me (surprise. It was empty.)  All I remember is telling my friends "Can we go now?  Do you really think it is suddenly going to get better?"

It wasn't even like Clooney Batman where you cringed for 15 minutes, and then it just turned into the whole movie theater making fun of it ... and it got so bad, it became good.  Nothing like Batman shaking his head when he talks or the entire backstory of Mr. Freeze being he fell.  But the laughing at it was so good.  Caddyshack 2 was a "just kill me" movie.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2015, 03:58:43 AM »
Caddyshack 2 was pretty bad.

Even worse?  Grease 2.

Worse yet?  And a true contender for worst "real" movie ever made?  Weekend at Bernie's 2.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2015, 04:09:04 AM »
I saw Caddyshack 2 first. Plus I was really young when I saw it. Little me remembered liking it. :dunno:

I guess I should see them both now in context.


Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2015, 04:16:37 AM »
I saw Caddyshack 2 first. Plus I was really young when I saw it. Little me remembered liking it. :dunno:

I guess I should see them both now in context.
No you shouldn't.  I can conceive of no circumstance under which anyone SHOULD see Caddyshack 2.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2015, 04:19:54 AM »
I saw Caddyshack 2 first. Plus I was really young when I saw it. Little me remembered liking it. :dunno:

I guess I should see them both now in context.
No you shouldn't.  I can conceive of no circumstance under which anyone SHOULD see Caddyshack 2.

Not even as corporal punishment?
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2015, 04:21:12 AM »
That would be inflicted on the individual by an outside authority.  Doesn't count.

But yes, that would work.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2015, 04:23:24 AM »
Say - what's everyone's favourite Chevy Chase movie ?


Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2015, 05:02:02 AM »
Say - what's everyone's favourite Chevy Chase movie ?

Fletch
Caddyshack
Seems Like Old Times

And, even though it's not really all that good, I have a soft spot in my heart for Modern Problems.
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Offline chaossystem

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2015, 01:37:01 PM »
I think there are several sequels that you could make a case for being better than the original. Terminator 2, Godfather Part 2, Aliens, Return of the King, Spider-Man 2, X-Men 2, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, The Dark Knight, The Empire Strikes Back, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Fast & Furious 5 or 6, the list goes on.

Spiderman 2 better than Spiderman?

The Dark Knight better than Batman Begins?

I question weather or not we even saw the same movies.

In the case of the Godfather I would maybe say as good.
But better?

Of all the X-Men movies I would have to say that the first is the best by far, but I haven't seen D.o.F.P. yet.

While I agree with you about Aliens, a lot of people will probably think we're crazy to think so.

I also agree that Last Crusade was the best of the Indiana Jones movies. But Raiders is a close second.

Another example of a series getting better as it goes along: I thought the 3rd and 4th Mission Impossible movies were much better than the first two.

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Offline Jaq

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2015, 03:14:37 PM »
You might be the first person I've ever seen say that Dark Knight and Spiderman 2 weren't better than their predecessors.

Seriously. I'm sure people will pop up now saying it because that shit just happens on the internet, but I've never seen anyone who thought those two movies weren't the best of their series far and away.  :lol

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Re: Sequels - Why Do They Not Work ?
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2015, 03:23:34 PM »
Chevy Chase

When I was young, I liked just about everything he was in.  Then I saw Caddyshack 2.

Off the top of my head, Chevy Chase, Bill Murray and Eddie Murphy.  Those were the comedy movie kings when I was young.