Author Topic: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)  (Read 20434 times)

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Offline senecadawg2

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #175 on: March 31, 2015, 04:51:10 PM »
I know a lot of people probably disagree, but I might enjoy Saul Season 1 more than Breaking Bad Season 1.

Of course, Breaking Bad at its peak (seasons 3 and 4, for me) is probably a higher high than Saul will ever reach, but I've gotta say- this first season has been really (and somewhat surprisingly) satisfying.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #176 on: March 31, 2015, 06:35:25 PM »
BTW, when Hamlin asked Kim to close the door and then the scene ended, my guess was the conversation was about her using HHM property to help the McGills with the initial legwork (from an episode or two ago) and he was threatening her job (again) and then possibly coming up with something like "we could sue the McGills for this resource theft."

I thought maybe since she said that Jimmy was her friend that Hammlin broke down and told her that Chuck was the one who told him not to hire Jimmy.....she takes that info and then knows that Jimmy will never get anywhere with Chuck backstabbing him and tries to convince Jimmy to take the deal/$$.
Yeah I think it was along these lines as well.
Of course that is what happened.  I'm talking about what was in my mind before that was revealed.  That's why I said Hamlin's character gained some massive depth in that 5-10 minute span.  He went from the arch villain to the patsy.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #177 on: March 31, 2015, 07:32:05 PM »
Definitely enjoying this although despite the show definitely being more lighthearted than BB I found the writing in the garage scene a little too canned comic relief and those other two guys almost comic booky. I didn't really get any enjoyment out of Mike kicking the crap out of that one guy because you knew it was coming the second he opened his mouth.

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #178 on: March 31, 2015, 08:09:14 PM »
That's why I said Hamlin's character gained some massive depth in that 5-10 minute span.  He went from the arch villain to the patsy.

This, exactly.  Hamlin/Chuck's character switch is an excellent piece of writing. 

I understand where Chuck is coming from
I do not at all. He was an absolute douchebag, and considering the huge amount of time and energy that Jimmy has invested in trying to help and look after his brother, Chuck has ultimately treated him like crap. The episode was awesome, and made me feel really sorry for Jimmy.

I just meant I got why he didn't want to be associated with Jimmy, because of his past etc, and because Chuck took the hard road and was incensed that Jimmy could shoot to the top on the back of one case, pretty much.  That doesn't make me like him any more.  I get his reasonings, I just don't sympathise with em.



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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #179 on: March 31, 2015, 09:25:07 PM »
Did anyone else notice that the guy who Mike beat up is the same actor as Trevor from Grand Theft Auto V?

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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #180 on: April 01, 2015, 12:34:04 AM »
Definitely enjoying this although despite the show definitely being more lighthearted than BB I found the writing in the garage scene a little too canned comic relief and those other two guys almost comic booky. I didn't really get any enjoyment out of Mike kicking the crap out of that one guy because you knew it was coming the second he opened his mouth.

There are people just like that annoying dude in real life.  Big talkers.  Can't Walkers.

What I liked about that scene was the big fat dude running.  The point being, Mike kicked the prison bully's ass and the rest of the prison fell under his authority.  Mike instantly gained the "I don't need to fight.  I rule by intimidation because everybody knows I can fight."

Here's the Mike scene played out in a totally different environment with the same results.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #181 on: April 02, 2015, 05:59:25 AM »
This show is fantiastic. I hoped it wouldn't completely bomb and it has ended up being nothing short of amazing. I bet Chuck kills himself next episode.

I actually get Chuck's POV.  If someone on the forum got a Ph.D. from a diploma mill school that wasn't accredited, I wouldn't view them as my peer based on merit. 

I have to disagree with this. I had someone at my last job pissed at me because they went and got a masters degree in MIS and I was in the same position making the same pay holding only a bachelors. I would actually say Saul was smart for doing what he did. He saved money and is able to start on the ground floor with no debt. Chuck had to work his ass off just so he could pay off the $100K+ he probably owed his school. He's probably jealous of Saul. A good lawyer is a good lawyer, it doesn't matter where you went to school. Just like a good computer programmer is a good computer programmer. Hell, most of the world's best coders didn't go to college at all.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 07:16:45 AM by Chino »

Offline El Barto

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #182 on: April 02, 2015, 03:36:05 PM »
I'm avoiding spoilers so I haven't checked in here. Quick question though, am I correct that there's only one episode left of the first season? Do we know when it'll air? Haven't decided whether or not to watch it season by season or wait for a few of them yet.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #183 on: April 02, 2015, 04:40:20 PM »
Barto, the last episode of the season is next Monday.




No way will Chuck kill himself next week.  He didn't look like someone who had regret; he looked like someone who had been busted. 

Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #184 on: April 02, 2015, 05:43:33 PM »
Chuck won't kill himself but he will definitely get himself blown up.

Twice during that last episode there was a distinct sound of gas being released from the canister and the show made a point of letting the audience hear it. And the doctor already said he could burn the house down because of using those canisters inside. 
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #185 on: April 02, 2015, 06:06:24 PM »
I don't know who Chuck is and I don't care if he kills himself or not, but thanks for the update.  :tup
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #186 on: April 02, 2015, 08:01:16 PM »
He's probably jealous of Saul.

I definitely agree with this.  He has the superiority / inferiority thing going on at the same time.  He thinks he's better, but when he goes to sleep at night, he worries he is not.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #187 on: April 03, 2015, 08:31:09 AM »
He's probably jealous of Saul.

I definitely agree with this.  He has the superiority / inferiority thing going on at the same time.  He thinks he's better, but when he goes to sleep at night, he worries he is not.

I think that's a safe bet. And, I'd venture to say that he knows deep down that Jimmy is 'smarter' than he is. Seems like Chuck may have the technical know how but when it comes to the presentation and personality Chuck knows Jimmy has something that no school can teach.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #188 on: April 03, 2015, 08:37:59 AM »
He's probably jealous of Saul.

I definitely agree with this.  He has the superiority / inferiority thing going on at the same time.  He thinks he's better, but when he goes to sleep at night, he worries he is not.

I think that's a safe bet. And, I'd venture to say that he knows deep down that Jimmy is 'smarter' than he is. Seems like Chuck may have the technical know how but when it comes to the presentation and personality Chuck knows Jimmy has something that no school can teach.

I think Jimmy has the ability to read and predict people's reactions in way that many people can't.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #189 on: April 03, 2015, 01:02:14 PM »
Seems like Chuck may have the technical know how but when it comes to the presentation and personality Chuck knows Jimmy has something that no school can teach.

I think Chuck only has the law vocabulary over Jimmy/Saul.  Saul actually proved a couple of times with Chuck that he has the law down, and Chuck begrudgingly said Saul was right with something like "that's right --- more or less".

And Saul definitely has the social skills and psychology manipulation of people down way better than Chuck.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #190 on: April 03, 2015, 04:01:38 PM »
I don't think that's fair to say, since we really haven't seen Chuck in action yet, except when he quickly laid the smack down on those lawyers with his "20 million dollars or we'll see you in court" line. 

Offline ariich

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #191 on: April 06, 2015, 08:39:06 AM »
Plus of course the way he's been manipulating Jimmy for years.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #192 on: April 06, 2015, 10:44:36 AM »
Plus of course the way he's been manipulating Jimmy for years.

That's not using your brain.  That's using your bloodline to take advantage.  It is pretty low and even those with below average IQs can work that.  It just takes being a scumbag.  Never go into business with family.  That's why.  You give family infinite chances and put up with insubordination that would normally result in a few write ups and then a firing.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #193 on: April 07, 2015, 09:02:43 AM »
Interesting way to end the season. I guess that answers why Jimmy never made it big time. He chose not to. He had the chance and decided to turn his back on it.
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Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #194 on: April 07, 2015, 12:52:29 PM »
That episode fell flat.  His turn at the end felt like a cheap cop-out by the writers, especially after he seemed to genuinely care for his clients in that scene at Marco's place.
     

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #195 on: April 07, 2015, 01:02:19 PM »
That episode fell flat.  His turn at the end felt like a cheap cop-out by the writers, especially after he seemed to genuinely care for his clients in that scene at Marco's place.

It did seem like the easy way out. I expected him to be 'burned' in some way.....not to just go full 180 in his moral outlook. I mean, he just dissed that chick (forgot her name) who has been looking out for him the whole time and even Hammlin in a way.

I don't know if that was their way of saying that his entire aspiration of becoming a lawyer and being 'good' was based on trying to make Chuck proud.....and now that he understands Chuck doesn't respect him at all as a lawyer....he'd just sayingn 'F' it and he's going back to what he knows best? But like you said....it could have been developed much more rather than a two minute scene at the end of the season.
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Offline BlackInk

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #196 on: April 07, 2015, 01:49:25 PM »
I thought it was great, and I fully bought his change of heart. This has been a fantastic season of television, and I'm very much looking forward to more. I'm guessing there'll be more? I haven't heard anything.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #197 on: April 07, 2015, 01:58:59 PM »
I thought it was great, and I fully bought his change of heart.

I did too.....just would have preferred to have more than the final scene dedicated to the 'switch' I know the whole episode was basically it.....but, I'd have liked to see a bit more at the end
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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #198 on: April 07, 2015, 04:56:07 PM »
I think my favorite thing about the show so far has been when they elaborate on those little things that, at the time, seem like throwaway lines Saul said on Breaking Bad.

Case in point:

Joe and I in the same squad is basically the virtual equivalent of us plowing a rape van through an elementary school playground at recess.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #199 on: April 07, 2015, 05:24:20 PM »
Yep, as soon as I heard the Dances With Wolves comment in a voiceover, I thought, "Oh man, here comes the Kevin Costner thing he once talked about to Walt." :lol :lol

Overall, I thought the finale was good, but a bit underwhelming.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #200 on: April 07, 2015, 08:49:27 PM »
I hope everyone saw the 2112 poster in that episode?

I was kinda disappointed with the ending, though overall it was a great episode again. I would have preferred it he got the job, worked the case, and pushed it ahead shining brighter than his brother. To me that would have been a far better "fuck you" to him than effectively turning his back on the straight lifestyle and apparently relapsing in slipping Jimmy again.

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Offline emblempride

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #201 on: April 08, 2015, 05:59:15 AM »
I dunno if it's as black and white as him running back to his old ways though. For a prequel, this show has managed to keep in line with Breaking Bad in that it's damn near impossible to predict what's going to happen the next hour the rolls by, only for things to feel like that's the only way the story could have ever gone. Gilligan and Gould have got my trust my on that, and this just feels like another cliffhanger. I don't think Jimmy's pulling a simple "fuck it" routine. Plus, he's not Saul Goodman yet, and I don't think Saul would even do that with the money involved. All we were given was him driving off and the implications of him declining the offer. It seemed obvious while waiting for BB's Season 4 premiere that Gus wasn't going to be walking on sunshine when he confronted Walt, but nobody anticipated Box Cutter, right?

I mean, to me, it's not a stretch for him to be faced with an inner conflict that would ultimately lead to self-sabotage even when the answer's right there in front of you. I mean, I think we've all met a few people desensitized by the world constantly leaving a stinky steamer on their good intentions. Jimmy's clearly dedicated the past 10 years of his life to showing Chuck that he didn't make the wrong decision in bringing him to Albuquerque, and, as we know, the irony is that Jimmy did having everything going for him except the very person that brought him out of the shitter in the first place. It only takes for one moment where things click, like finding out that your brother and literal hero has been working against you from the beginning, for this perfect schema you've been managing to come crashing down, even if it's just for long enough to fuck your life up. Shit, to realize that not only was Chuck against him, but was in fact everything he hated about Hamlin the whole time? Everything that's happened to Jimmy in the past two weeks save that sudden offer could very well leave him thinking like he only has one clear choice with what he's got.

However, as I said earlier, that might not be the case. He could be driving off with a better plan in mind, using a con man's wit to manipulate the case back under his total control. Maybe he heard himself having to use McGill for the firm name and, despite his fight with Hamlin to use it, might just abandon it for Goodman. This could just be the first, and most ethically unchallenged, instance where we see Slippin' Jimmy make use of his law degree. It would mean bypassing the climbing of the ranks and minutiae he would have had to endure at HHM and lead him straight to Francesca and his own modest office. I feel like after all this shit with Chuck, the perks like that great office with the view next to Chuck's don't matter as much as his independent success.

Or he, Walt, Jesse, Mike, Huell, and Tio could just poison Sandpiper's reps with ricin, it's just so difficult to predict with Gilligan, the bastard.

As for the ep itself, I thought it was top notch as was the rest of the seriesl. I think it felt slower because it was the first episode in a while to not have any tension, but I don't think BCS needs it all the time anyways, not even for the finale since the last bunch have been heavyweights. Loving the whole 40's vibe to the show, from that sweet montage to Mike's noir adventures. Also, Marco's on The Last Man on Earth, which is great too.

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #202 on: April 08, 2015, 07:31:46 AM »
I think my favorite thing about the show so far has been when they elaborate on those little things that, at the time, seem like throwaway lines Saul said on Breaking Bad.

Case in point:


Ah that's pretty neat, didn't notice that.
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Offline emblempride

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #203 on: April 08, 2015, 03:47:19 PM »
Just a bit from a supposed lawyer on reddit, gives some context to Jimmy's turnaround.

Quote
I'm seeing a lot of people complaining that Jimmy turning away from the firm offer he had doesn't make a lot of sense, but a lot of it seems to me to stem from this idea that partnership track=guaranteed to become partner and that partners at these firms are Mitt Romney rich.

Partnership-track only means that partnership is on the table, there is no guarantee. Assuming generously that instead of being brought in as a first year associate, they would put Jimmy on track with a 4th year, he would still have 4-5 years to be up for partner.

Partners at even the most profitable nationwide firms may make 7 figures but usually not mid or high 7 figures. Given that this firm is a big regional firm based out of Santa Fe, I would imagine the partners aren't getting past 1.5 million/year if even that much.

Compare to this to what Saul Goodman makes. Even being conservative, we see him rake in 6 figures in deals made in a single day, 7 figure finders' fees, etc. Saul Goodman can make more in a day than Jimmy McGill would have made in a year at that big firm (and the fact that he walked away from 800k in the Kettlesituation made him realize as much).

At the moment where he is walking into the courthouse, Jimmy realizes that he really enjoyed his week with Marco. He likes being sleazy and skirting the law and he's damn good at it. And now he's "slippin' Jimmy with a law degree" (in Chuck's words/echoed in how surprised Marco is that slippin' Jimmy is a lawyer and not making bank).

So, his option is to take the job and work insane hours, spending 60-80+ hours/week reviewing documents, on a computer doing legal research, drafting motions, briefs etc. for low to eventually mid 6 figures and a shot at partner making maybe low 7 figures OR to embrace Slippin' Jimmy, realize pleasing Chuck is a futile task, and do the thing he really loves and enjoys for way, way more money.

Seems like a good choice to me and his time with Marco combined with the Kettlemoney (and Chuck's "slippin' Jimmy with a law degree" comment) made it a reasonable time for him to make the decision too.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #204 on: April 08, 2015, 08:58:57 PM »
That ending was great.

There were two things holding Saul back from becoming an eventual partner with a big law firm.

1.  Confidence:  He just spent the last few years trying to win Chuck's approval.  He figured Chuck had his best interest at heart and when Chuck would tell him that he wasn't ready or just had to work a little harder, he believed it.  The call from the clients and Hamlin's / Kim's vote of confidence confirmed he was ready.  He needed a 3rd party to say "we believe in you".
2.  Freedom:  When he works under somebody, he feels like he is steered in the wrong direction.  He has the degree, but more importantly he has good instincts.  When he puts those instincts aside and trusts his *superiors* have the better path, he always ended up getting the short end of the stick.

It is what the entire first season arc led up to.  It was done brilliantly.

As far as Chuck helping him out?  How?
1.  Got him out of jail facing prison time.  He might have actually been better in prison earning his law degree there.
2.  Got him a job.  At a mailroom?  You don't need a high powered attorney referral to get that type of job.  He could have done that all on his own.  And he basically did.
3.  Got him an education (law degree).  Saul did that all on his own.
4.  Put him on a good case to prove his worth.  Saul, once again, did that all on his own.  Kim helped him more by suggesting elder law.

All Chuck did was give him bad advice and put up roadblocks that wouldn't have been there had he done all of these things on his own. 

Chuck was the Phantom Menace the entire time.
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Offline emblempride

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #205 on: April 09, 2015, 05:10:12 PM »
For the most part, I agree with you, but I don't think Jimmy had any interest in becoming a lawyer until Chuck got him into the mail room. Not to mention that even if he had studied in prison, a registered sex offender would have an infinite road of shit waiting for him.Ultimately, Chuck did save his ass in that moment but had no confidence it would last, even after 10 years. The whole "hero" scam exacerbated his lack of faith. He gave him a chance, yeah, but he never thought much would come from it. Certainly didn't expect, and certainly won't accept, that Jimmy could actually be on par with him.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #206 on: April 09, 2015, 05:53:56 PM »
What good is pointing somebody in a direction if you only plan to set up roadblocks?  And did Chuck ever actually point him in the direction of "attorney" as a career, or was his career path mail room > legal secretary?

I think the point is Chuck gave Saul an inferiority complex.  But Saul always had the goods, whether it be attorney or business proprietor.  He has leadership qualities that, for the most part, you just can't teach.

The meaning of him telling Mike "that" was never going to hold him back again could be extrapolated in many different ways.  But mainly it was the new belief that he can rely on others, but he doesn't have to.  If his instincts go against what others tell him is "the right way", he will now trust his instincts.  The whole season was putting him in situations where he listened to advice, it failed.  He went on instinct, he succeeded.  That was set in stone with Chuck's betrayal and his visit back to his kicking grounds (BTW, loved the Nigerian scam)

And by extension, not worrying about what is "the right thing to do" according to dogma.  But that goes back to his instincts.  I don't think he is about to go off and become mr. slimy attorney.  They kind of hinted when he told Marco he wasn't running a scam on the senior citizens.  He did it not just for his career, but because he actually cared about their well being.  And he was put in many similar situations:  the skaters and Nacho being a big one in the beginning.

And I really love the Nacho character.  I'm in agony knowing how long I will have to wait for Season 2.
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Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #207 on: April 09, 2015, 06:28:34 PM »
That episode fell flat.

Yeah, I felt a little disappointed by it - it was less engaging than the other ep's - however I don't feel like the turn was a cop out.  There was a whole episode of build up towards it, and the dude in that reddit thread seems to have nailed it.  I felt the cinematography was a bit below par with this episode, even bordering on cheesy at times.  Much different to how its been.  I think overall it was a pretty disappointing end to an absolutely stellar season, very much looking forward to season 2.

Offline emblempride

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #208 on: April 09, 2015, 07:44:33 PM »
What good is pointing somebody in a direction if you only plan to set up roadblocks?  And did Chuck ever actually point him in the direction of "attorney" as a career, or was his career path mail room > legal secretary?

I think the point is Chuck gave Saul an inferiority complex.  But Saul always had the goods, whether it be attorney or business proprietor.  He has leadership qualities that, for the most part, you just can't teach.

The meaning of him telling Mike "that" was never going to hold him back again could be extrapolated in many different ways.  But mainly it was the new belief that he can rely on others, but he doesn't have to.  If his instincts go against what others tell him is "the right way", he will now trust his instincts.  The whole season was putting him in situations where he listened to advice, it failed.  He went on instinct, he succeeded.  That was set in stone with Chuck's betrayal and his visit back to his kicking grounds (BTW, loved the Nigerian scam)

And by extension, not worrying about what is "the right thing to do" according to dogma.  But that goes back to his instincts.  I don't think he is about to go off and become mr. slimy attorney.  They kind of hinted when he told Marco he wasn't running a scam on the senior citizens.  He did it not just for his career, but because he actually cared about their well being.  And he was put in many similar situations:  the skaters and Nacho being a big one in the beginning.
Oh no, totally, I agree with you essentially. Chuck's actions were indefensible. Jimmy's not quite Saul yet. My point was that Chuck did help (not that it was even fully voluntarily, as the mother had to ask I believe) Jimmy in getting out of that tough, possibly damning situation, and that it didn't seem that he had much interest in law before that. That was the catalyst, but everything else was all Jimmy's wit and work ethic.

I felt the cinematography was a bit below par with this episode, even bordering on cheesy at times.  Much different to how its been.  I think overall it was a pretty disappointing end to an absolutely stellar season, very much looking forward to season 2.
I could kinda understand as it was a slower episode, but I think the only thing that's really struck me as cheesy this season was the scene where Chuck is running around outside. Not the great space blanket long shots, but the shaky cam closeups, typical body rig stuff to give a manic sense of hysteria. Other than that though, I've been loving it! A nice 40's kinda feel to the whole thing. I actually really enjoyed that montage.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 07:54:42 PM by emblempride »
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Better Call Saul (SPOILERS)
« Reply #209 on: April 09, 2015, 07:53:57 PM »
Oh no, totally, I agree with you essentially.
Yeah.  We are more or less agreeing, just looking at the same thing from different angles, both being right.

Overall, I loved the first season.  The only thing that had me second guessing whether I would like it or not was how they were going to use Jonathan Banks.  Couldn't be happier with his role as Mike in this.

Also, I'm very glad Chuck didn't die.  The other poster on this thread was very convincing with the foreshadowing of the possible gas explosion.  I didn't want it to happen, but they brought up some good points that had thinking it was very possible (and still possible).  We don't need characters dying off left and right like we did in Breaking Bad.  It made sense in BB, but it would seem like easy exits for Better Call Saul.

I'm guessing Saul will never reach the attorney heights that Chuck already has based off what happens in Breaking Bad (and especially the opening of Better Call Saul).  I really don't want the series finale to be Saul and Walter's paths crossing.  I want that to happen mid to mid-late series so we can get some "oh that's what Saul was up to when Walt was pissing everybody off" moments.  So much opportunity for the to be an all time great TV series.

Knew Odenkirk pre-BB, and loved him pre-BB.  Didn't know Nacho pre-BB, but I am loving his character immensely.  Didn't know Banks pre-BB, and who doesn't want more Mike?  This show is just so character driven.  Dynamic characters.
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