Author Topic: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job  (Read 3337 times)

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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2015, 08:35:02 AM »
Let's follow some of the logic here:

1.  The Bush administration just might have wanted and therefore made possible the 9/11 attacks to happen because they should have been able to stop it.

By that logic:
2.  The Obama administration just might have wanted and therefore made possible the debacle of the Obamacare website rollout because they should have been able to pull it off.

#1 was a clandestine attack.  Clinton was cut multiple times by surprise from Al Qaeda, including a WTC attack
#2 had 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 to prepare and develop the website.  It wasn't a surprise.  In fact, the administration created the circumstances for the need for a website in the first place

#1 was such a surprise to everybody that some weren't even sure if it was real or a movie trailer
#2 was done on a platform that had already been monitized and had makes possible the smallest person to become an entreprenuer with less effort than ever before.  Further, the ground was already broken by insurance companies and insurance agents.  Obamacare isn't much more than einsurance.com.  The ability to track income qualifications had already been established by such govt. programs as the EITC, medicaid, welfare and tax returns.

Further, there were plenty of reports that the Obama administration knew healthcare.gov wasn't ready to roll out but did so anyway.  Although the employer mandate had to be pushed back a year.

9/11 being an inside job is possible.  Just like every single religion being right is possible.  Just like lizard aliens are working with grey aliens to run the New World Order.
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2015, 08:54:32 AM »
#1 was such a surprise to everybody that some weren't even sure if it was real or a movie trailer
Everything's a surprise to people who aren't paying attention. The people who were on the ball saw it coming a mile away and plenty of people were throwing up red flags.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2015, 09:05:14 AM »
#1 was such a surprise to everybody that some weren't even sure if it was real or a movie trailer
Everything's a surprise to people who aren't paying attention. The people who were on the ball saw it coming a mile away and plenty of people were throwing up red flags.

Generic flags that could have only led to prevention by near lockdown of the country for an indeterminate amount of time.  And then when the hijackers are caught, huge protests that these guys were never really a danger to anybody.  Wag the Dog mentality crippled Clinton's actions.
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline Chino

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2015, 09:28:40 AM »

#2 had 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 to prepare and develop the website.

It's more than just a webiste. It is the front end to what's arguably the most complicated database infrastructure to ever be to built.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2015, 10:09:15 AM »
#1 was such a surprise to everybody that some weren't even sure if it was real or a movie trailer
Everything's a surprise to people who aren't paying attention. The people who were on the ball saw it coming a mile away and plenty of people were throwing up red flags.

Generic flags that could have only led to prevention by near lockdown of the country for an indeterminate amount of time.  And then when the hijackers are caught, huge protests that these guys were never really a danger to anybody. 
Not at all. Don't get me wrong, they would have locked down the country for an indeterminate amount of time because that's something they wanted to do. Whether they launched Police State USA before or after the event is irrelevant; here we are. There were very specific bits of information available that would have been highly actionable. You had federal agents questioning why specific bad actors were taking (half-assedly) flying lessons. I'd bet decent money that a simple task force to coordinate some of the intel they had would have made all the difference in the world. All they needed was coordination, which is something that would have been very simple if somebody had been on the ball.

As for Clinton, I don't think there's anybody around that wasn't very clear that he was very concerned about al Qada and acting accordingly. A problem you run into is that acting because of concern and acting because of wag the dog look exactly the same. All I can really say is that the people around him were pretty clear that it was the former.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2015, 12:12:22 PM »
As for Clinton, I don't think there's anybody around that wasn't very clear that he was very concerned about al Qada and acting accordingly. A problem you run into is that acting because of concern and acting because of wag the dog look exactly the same. All I can really say is that the people around him were pretty clear that it was the former.

To be clear, I wasn't saying Clinton was wagging the dog, but rather there was a very vocal protest claiming he was wagging the dog (because people watch movies and suddenly think they are foreign policy experts).  This is all about the walls the ignorant PC police throw up.   And it seems to only be getting worse.

If this Islamic extremism was the tiniest of minorities, they'd be holed up in some shed being laughed at by the rest of the world.  But it is more accepted than "anti-Islamaphobia" people admit.

And I more or less originally subscribed to the "let them all get at the center of a big X to be blown off the face of the planet" theory, but obviously that isn't working.

I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2015, 12:26:41 PM »


And I more or less originally subscribed to the "let them all get at the center of a big X to be blown off the face of the planet" theory, but obviously that isn't working.
On the contrary, I think it's working extremely well. It's just not happening quickly. Patience is a virture, and putting them on a big X and then letting Arab nations blow them up is the best possible outcome.

And how did the 911 thread become the ISIL thread?
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2015, 12:39:05 PM »
Actually it is the ACA thread too.

Have a headache, so I'll probably drop out for a bit other than quick, simple remarks.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2015, 05:52:19 AM »
And how did the 911 thread become the ISIL thread?

Actually it is the ACA thread too.

Because it's all connected!  It's all a big plan by the Illuminati to control the world!

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2015, 07:08:58 AM »
Well I wish they would hurry up and do it and stop fucking around.
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Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2015, 09:17:59 AM »
And how did the 911 thread become the ISIL thread?

Actually it is the ACA thread too.

Because it's all connected!  It's all a big plan by the Illuminati to control the world!

And now this thread has become a conspiracy.  Feedback loop?
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2015, 09:58:36 AM »
Well I wish they would hurry up and do it and stop fucking around.

Are you surprised by the incompetence of a government conspiracy?

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2015, 11:52:17 AM »
Well I wish they would hurry up and do it and stop fucking around.

Are you surprised by the incompetence of a government conspiracy?

Well, you only know about incompetent government conspiracies.
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2015, 12:19:29 PM »
Well I wish they would hurry up and do it and stop fucking around.

Are you surprised by the incompetence of a government conspiracy?

Well, you only know about incompetent government conspiracies.

 :facepalm:

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2015, 12:38:43 PM »
Well I wish they would hurry up and do it and stop fucking around.

Are you surprised by the incompetence of a government conspiracy?

Well, you only know about incompetent government conspiracies.

 :facepalm:
;D
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2015, 09:16:13 AM »


The ACA website is by no means simple. Not in the slghtest. It's not like you're building a website for a band or TV show. You're talking about the entire infrastructure required to get proper healthcare to a few hundred million people. I think you are severely underestimating how monumental of a task that is. It's more than just a matter of a point and click not working. You need to seamlessly integrate every hospital, doctor's office, insurance provider, related website, existing app, bank, etc, all of which use different IT systems and storage procedures, into the same application. The amount of IT resources a project like that requires is beyond what most people can comprehend, and the fact that even with Google and Yahoo's help there are still bugs should be a testament to how challenging that task really is. I'd argue that going to the moon was easier and took less resources. Also, to dismiss policy and call it ineffective because of a technology related issue is kind of foolish. That'd be like saying a BMW M5 is a piece of crap because the highbeam GPS screen was a dud from the factory.

Sorry to derail, but I had to say it.

To go into further detail, they had to write code to interface with all of the hundreds of different healthcare provider databases.
This will likely not mean much to people, so here's an analogy: Why don't you create a sequence of screen clicks that will send an email on a Blackberry, iPhone, and Android. For the different versions of the platforms.
It is a monumental task, simply because every state, and every state's providers, cook their own thing.

Well, I understand what you are saying, certainly, but let's not get crazy.  Comparing the ACA website to the moon launch is a little much. 


You're right.  The computational power required to send men to the moon and return them safely to the earth is approximately equal to the computational power of the average modern desk calculator.  So, in fact, a website with the capabilities of the ACA site (as they are today) is literally many, many thousands of times more powerful than the computers that put us on the moon.


Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2015, 09:18:02 AM »
By the way, the video in the first post gave me a good, long  :rollin

Offline Stadler

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2015, 06:57:07 AM »


The ACA website is by no means simple. Not in the slghtest. It's not like you're building a website for a band or TV show. You're talking about the entire infrastructure required to get proper healthcare to a few hundred million people. I think you are severely underestimating how monumental of a task that is. It's more than just a matter of a point and click not working. You need to seamlessly integrate every hospital, doctor's office, insurance provider, related website, existing app, bank, etc, all of which use different IT systems and storage procedures, into the same application. The amount of IT resources a project like that requires is beyond what most people can comprehend, and the fact that even with Google and Yahoo's help there are still bugs should be a testament to how challenging that task really is. I'd argue that going to the moon was easier and took less resources. Also, to dismiss policy and call it ineffective because of a technology related issue is kind of foolish. That'd be like saying a BMW M5 is a piece of crap because the highbeam GPS screen was a dud from the factory.

Sorry to derail, but I had to say it.

To go into further detail, they had to write code to interface with all of the hundreds of different healthcare provider databases.
This will likely not mean much to people, so here's an analogy: Why don't you create a sequence of screen clicks that will send an email on a Blackberry, iPhone, and Android. For the different versions of the platforms.
It is a monumental task, simply because every state, and every state's providers, cook their own thing.

Well, I understand what you are saying, certainly, but let's not get crazy.  Comparing the ACA website to the moon launch is a little much. 


You're right.  The computational power required to send men to the moon and return them safely to the earth is approximately equal to the computational power of the average modern desk calculator.  So, in fact, a website with the capabilities of the ACA site (as they are today) is literally many, many thousands of times more powerful than the computers that put us on the moon.

If you focus ONLY on the variable "computing power".  Look, I know it's me and you HAVE to argue with my point and dismiss it with snarky sarcasm, but you know full well that the ACA website doesn't require me to sit on over 500,000 gallons of highly combustible liquid fuel, doesn't require 7.5 MILLION pounds of thrust to overcome the effects of Earth's gravitational field, doesn't require me (or anyone else) to be propelled into zero gravity space for days at a time, doesn't require a precision coupling - again, in space - of two components, and doesn't require a near-constant recalculation and re-calibration of path, trajectory, velocity, air pressure, water pressure, etc. etc.   Comparing the ACA website with perhaps one of the top three (well, THE top in my book) achievements in the history of mankind - and something we would be hard pressed to duplicate today, even with the advanced computing technology - is extreme. 

On a more practical level, I'm not arguing that the ACA website isn't complex; it most certainly is.  It is not, however, unprecedentedly complex.   The Dutch have already implemented a similar system (though without the tiered subsidy levels) and the CGI Group - the Canadian company hired to develop the interface - had done something similar already in Canada.  I just Googled - in various forms - the general query "most complex website", and not one response in any of the permutations delivered the ACA website (though Amazon got a couple votes). 

Online cramx3

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2015, 07:30:54 AM »
Does anyone actually take the TV channel Russia Today seriously? 

I ask because in the USA we don't get this channel, but when I travel to Europe for work I always find myself watching RT because its usually entertaining to watch the Russian version of the news, but I find it hard to take any of it seriously.  I was wondering if I am the only one.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2015, 08:21:13 AM »
That was a real channel???? Wow. I thought it was just some guy on Youtube trying to appear convincing and authoritative.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2015, 12:00:13 PM »
Is this the one with topless female anchors?
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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2015, 12:04:32 PM »
Its a real news channel.  I get it in the hotels when I go to the Netherlands and Germany.  Its in english and its all the russian viewpoints on mostly American news.  Its actually really entertaining to watch at times because its so one sided and the opposite side of what I am used to seeing in the US.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2015, 01:02:15 PM »
Does anyone actually take the TV channel Russia Today seriously? 

I ask because in the USA we don't get this channel

I get the RT news channel with my satellite package.  I have a TV and sat feed in my office, so I get quite a bit of news through out the day.  It is like listening to the radio while you work.  When one channel gets too repetitive, I flip between CNN, Fox, MSNBC, local, the CSPANs, CNBC and RT. 

Sometimes I tune into the NASA channel, but all they talk about now is how awesome healthcare.gov is.
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2015, 02:10:17 PM »
Its a real news channel.  I get it in the hotels when I go to the Netherlands and Germany.  Its in english and its all the russian viewpoints on mostly American news.  Its actually really entertaining to watch at times because its so one sided and the opposite side of what I am used to seeing in the US.


I wonder if Russian people see our news broadcasts and have a similar reaction?


Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2015, 02:26:32 PM »


The ACA website is by no means simple. Not in the slghtest. It's not like you're building a website for a band or TV show. You're talking about the entire infrastructure required to get proper healthcare to a few hundred million people. I think you are severely underestimating how monumental of a task that is. It's more than just a matter of a point and click not working. You need to seamlessly integrate every hospital, doctor's office, insurance provider, related website, existing app, bank, etc, all of which use different IT systems and storage procedures, into the same application. The amount of IT resources a project like that requires is beyond what most people can comprehend, and the fact that even with Google and Yahoo's help there are still bugs should be a testament to how challenging that task really is. I'd argue that going to the moon was easier and took less resources. Also, to dismiss policy and call it ineffective because of a technology related issue is kind of foolish. That'd be like saying a BMW M5 is a piece of crap because the highbeam GPS screen was a dud from the factory.

Sorry to derail, but I had to say it.

To go into further detail, they had to write code to interface with all of the hundreds of different healthcare provider databases.
This will likely not mean much to people, so here's an analogy: Why don't you create a sequence of screen clicks that will send an email on a Blackberry, iPhone, and Android. For the different versions of the platforms.
It is a monumental task, simply because every state, and every state's providers, cook their own thing.

Well, I understand what you are saying, certainly, but let's not get crazy.  Comparing the ACA website to the moon launch is a little much. 


You're right.  The computational power required to send men to the moon and return them safely to the earth is approximately equal to the computational power of the average modern desk calculator.  So, in fact, a website with the capabilities of the ACA site (as they are today) is literally many, many thousands of times more powerful than the computers that put us on the moon.

If you focus ONLY on the variable "computing power".  Look, I know it's me and you HAVE to argue with my point and dismiss it with snarky sarcasm,
Is there any chance you can give this victim card thing a rest?  Please? 


Quote from: Stadler
but you know full well that the ACA website doesn't require me to sit on over 500,000 gallons of highly combustible liquid fuel, doesn't require 7.5 MILLION pounds of thrust to overcome the effects of Earth's gravitational field, doesn't require me (or anyone else) to be propelled into zero gravity space for days at a time, doesn't require a precision coupling - again, in space - of two components, and doesn't require a near-constant recalculation and re-calibration of path, trajectory, velocity, air pressure, water pressure, etc. etc.   
um..ok?  I'm really not sure why you're wandering off on this tangent.  You said comparing the ACA to the moon launch was "a bit much" and I'm here telling you it's not.  Not by a long shot.  That's it.  That's all I was saying, nothing more, nothing less. 



Quote from: Stadler

Comparing the ACA website with perhaps one of the top three (well, THE top in my book) achievements in the history of mankind - and something we would be hard pressed to duplicate today, even with the advanced computing technology - is extreme. 

Straw man much?  I did not compare the ACA web site to the moon landing.  I simply disagreed with you that comparing the two is a bit much given the fact that, well, it's not.  Not as far as the point I was making is concerned.  The complexity and capability of the computers that put us on the moon are nothing.  A $3.00 digital wrist watch is a 1000x more complicated.

Quote from: Stadler
On a more practical level, I'm not arguing that the ACA website isn't complex; it most certainly is.  It is not, however, unprecedentedly complex.   The Dutch have already implemented a similar system (though without the tiered subsidy levels) and the CGI Group - the Canadian company hired to develop the interface - had done something similar already in Canada.  I just Googled - in various forms - the general query "most complex website", and not one response in any of the permutations delivered the ACA website (though Amazon got a couple votes).
Again with the Straw Man.  No one is arguing what is or is not the "most complex website" 









Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2015, 02:33:26 PM »
DTF is the most complex website.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2015, 03:05:24 PM »
DTF is the most complex website.

Just the political forum. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2015, 10:05:36 PM »
Something about "straw men".


In a discussion about the unlikeliness of a government conspiracy, the ACA website was posited as a complex endeavor by Chino, and in fact, he later said that he would argue that going to the moon is easier than the ACA website.

In explaining why I disagree - strongly - with that, you offered that the computational power required for the moon launch, which is not really relevant to the main premise.  If you have a problem with the current line of discussion, let's bring this around: the government of today is likely not capable of going to the moon in any reasonable time and for any reasonable amount of money, or creating a website of lesser complexity than ones that already exist commercially and in operation every single day, so they are clearly not capable of pulling off the greatest conspiracy in the recorded history of mankind. 

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2015, 06:20:11 AM »
Its a real news channel.  I get it in the hotels when I go to the Netherlands and Germany.  Its in english and its all the russian viewpoints on mostly American news.  Its actually really entertaining to watch at times because its so one sided and the opposite side of what I am used to seeing in the US.


I wonder if Russian people see our news broadcasts and have a similar reaction?

That would require them to have access to our news, which maybe they do.  I have no idea, but yea I would bet they have a similar reaction if they watched our views on them.  Part of the reason I love watching RT to see the other side of the argument... however, the things they report on really seem far fetched sometimes, at least IMO.

Offline Calvin6s

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Re: Russia today claims 9/11 was an inside job
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2015, 11:46:01 AM »
Part of the reason I love watching RT to see the other side of the argument... however, the things they report on really seem far fetched sometimes, at least IMO.

I don't watch it that often, but when I do it doesn't seem surprising.  It just seems like they give a microphone to the biggest conspiracy theorist that we see here.  Like the 9/11 conspiracy.  We've all heard this stuff before.  Or they will take something like the Ferguson riots and give a mic to the most militant and racist people and act like it is the norm.

But they never add anything to it.  They don't release some amazing story that was supposedly suppressed here that makes the conspiracy reality.  Nothing comes on that makes me think "OMG.  The conspiracies are true."
I wish death upon Mitch McConnell and Pat Robertson in comment sections all the time. I'll admit that I'd be thrilled if either one of them died of a stroke tonight.