Anyone else think LITS, HK and TOT are among the weakest on FII?

[npiazza91]

First of all, let me just say that I love DT's epics.  The longer the song, usually the better for me.  However...on an album like FII, where they obviously went with the simpler, more radio friendly approach, the epics just don't fit.  I for one, LOVE Hollow Years, Peruvian Skies, Take Away My Pain and Anna Lee the most on that album.  New Millenium is great too, and BMS is pretty good.  You Not Me is decent I guess, but the 3 I mentioned, plus Just Let Me Breathe...I just can't get into.  For this album, the radio songs just...work.

I know I'm in the minority here, but nothing about ToT and LitS do anything for me.  It's almost as if the tone of the album contradicts having an epic song.  It's like if a radio friendly band decided to make a 13 minute song, it just wouldn't work.  Hell's Kitchen is ok, but again, I put a radio friendly album in, I want to hear radio songs.  FII is my go to radio album and I very rarely listen to the other ones.

Anyone else feel this way?

[bosk1]

Anyone else feel this way?

No.  Except for Hell's Kitchen, which does nothing for me (although it does work as a neat little intro to LITS).  But the other two are fantastic and among DT's best work.

[Rodni Demental]

Anyone else think LITS, HK and TOT are among the weakest on FII?

No I think you got it reversed there if anything. 

[TheCountOfNYC]

Hell's Kitchen yes considering it's one of my least favorite Dream Theater songs. Lines in the Sand and Trial of Tears no with ToT being one of my favorites.

[bl5150]

Over time I've grown to like the tracks you mention , but back in the day (on release) the only vocal tracks I could stomach at all were Hollow Years and Peruvian Skies.

My reaction to FII as a whole at the time of release was something along the lines of.....

[bosk1]

I've never been able to stomach Hollow Years.    FII is just a funny album for me, in that it contains some of my absolute favorites and some of my absolute least favorites.

[fischermasamune]

Glad to know I'm not the only one to dislike Hollow Years. I prefer You Not Me over it.

And in topic: TOT, LITS and HK are 3 of the best 4 FII songs (the other is New Millenium).

[ori.elias5]

HK is just a great atmospheric song, LITS includes one of JP best guitar solos and ToT is a special, wanna say rare finisher. i can die hearing the guitar-keyboards solo part.

[Setlist Scotty]

@ the OP: Sorry man - gotta go with the majority. Those 3 tracks are the standouts on the album.

Regarding Hollow Years, I never was a huge fan of the song until they amped it up with the 2004 version. That version IMO is so much better than the original. And taking it even a further step was the 2009 version which had the original pre-chorus(?), but most significantly an extended intro which was awesome.

[Outcrier]

Anyone else think LITS, HK and TOT are among the weakest on FII?

No I think you got it reversed there if anything. 

[Calvin6s]

What?  They aren't just the best of the album, they are some of the best of their entire discography.  Without those 3 songs, FII would have been wasted money.

Hollow Years is one of my least favorites.  Take Away My Pain is even worse.  The remaining songs are average at best.

[Kotowboy]

Lines In The Sand > > Breaking All Illusions.

[BlobVanDam]

Is it opposite day? Or April 1st? Nope? Then I don't understand this thread.

[bosk1]

Regarding Hollow Years, I never was a huge fan of the song until they amped it up with the 2004 version. That version IMO is so much better than the original. And taking it even a further step was the 2009 version which had the original pre-chorus(?), but most significantly an extended intro which was awesome.

I never cared for either version.  I mean, yeah, JP's solo in the 2004 version is nice.  But that still isn't enough for me. 

My favorites on the album are easily LITS, ToT, and Take Away My Pain.  Those are the standouts and are some of the best in the entire DT discography.  Then you have songs like NM, Just Let Me Breathe, Anna Lee, and Peruvian Skies that are solid.  Then the rest, which I don't really care for at all.  Burning My Soul is the one song on the album that I can't decide what to do with.  Overall, I don't really like it.  It is one of the few DT songs where the lyrics rub me the wrong way.  And it has some other quirks that I do not like either.  But then it has some really cool parts too.  And I bet it would be a great live song. 

[ThatOneGuy2112]

The three tracks in question are without a doubt the clear stand-outs on FII, and even in their discography.

I'll fight the herd in favor of Hollow Years though. I've always loved it, though it's not something I really expected from DT when I first heard it. Another highlight in FII for me.

[npiazza91]

Lines In The Sand > > Breaking All Illusions.

I just exploded.  BAI is Top 10 DT easily.  LitS, in my opinion, has very little going for it.  It's too awkward of a song.  The chorus is weird and doesn't flow at all (even by prog standards).  The whole structure of the song feels off.

I actually like ToT a lot more, though it still wouldn't make my Top 50.  ToT is decent...LitS gives me a bad taste in my mouth.

[Zook]

Yeah, those are 3 of their best.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

LITS has some cool moments, but I rarely find myself wanting to listen to it among the rest of the discography. A bit disjointed--I tend to zone out for parts. I enjoyed the CiM version, though, because it was the only song there where James really seemed in form. Cool song, but toward the bottom of the 10+ minute songs in DT's discog for me.

ToT used to be in a similar vein, but the BTFW version got me into it more. Love the ending. Probably would be in the 30 range if I did a Top 50.

HK...sounds fine when it's playing, but really should've been left in BMS. The BMS demo would likely be top 25 for me if it was recorded with FII production values.* As it stands, HK is probably the least compelling instrumental DT's done, and I'm not in love with SoC or Erotomania either (though, like HK, they have their moments).

YNM and the studio HY are obviously below all three, but LITS and HK get less play from me than a lot of the rest. My favorite FII songs are PS, AL, and ToT, in no particular order.

*probably fits better in the Controversial Opinions thread

[Lucien]

Yeah, Controversial Opinions would have been a much better thread for this

[bosk1]

Just because an opinion is bizarre does not mean it is "controversial."

[The Presence of Frenemies]

Just because an opinion is bizarre does not mean it is "controversial."

Not at all. It just had occurred to me when I was writing my comment about the BMS demo that, independent of this thread, that opinion would fit well over there.

[Zydar]

None of those three mentioned are among my favourite DT songs, but I wouldn't call them weak either. Somewhere in the middle, I guess. TOT is the better of those three.

[me7]

Hell's Kitchen is my favourite song on the album, possibly even my favourite DT instrumental.

[ariich]

No.

Just... no.

I mean, LITS I don't find all that exciting, and do prefer songs like Hollow Years and Anna Lee. But Hell's Kitchen and Trial of Tears are probably my favourites on the album.

[Mladen]

Hell's kitchen is really not an amazing instrumental. It's definitely one of my lesser favorites in Dream Theater discography.

Lines in the sand might be slightly overrated, but it's still solid.

Trial of tears is absolutely amazing.

[Rodni Demental]

LITS has some cool moments, but I rarely find myself wanting to listen to it among the rest of the discography. A bit disjointed--I tend to zone out for parts. I enjoyed the CiM version, though, because it was the only song there where James really seemed in form. Cool song, but toward the bottom of the 10+ minute songs in DT's discog for me.

ToT used to be in a similar vein, but the BTFW version got me into it more. Love the ending. Probably would be in the 30 range if I did a Top 50.

HK...sounds fine when it's playing, but really should've been left in BMS. The BMS demo would likely be top 25 for me if it was recorded with FII production values.* As it stands, HK is probably the least compelling instrumental DT's done

I can agree with this. I think the Demo of BMS is a much better representation of the piece. The double verse with the interlude so the chorus doesn't come in til later really helps the pacing of the song. And the extended intro riff (after the HK teaser) is a far superior to the regular song's intro. I wish they hadn't tried to turn it into the the next "Lie" or "metal single", it would have been a much more expansive piece. But I suppose HK kinda works pretty welll as an intro to LITS too.

[hefdaddy42]

Anyone else think LITS, HK and TOT are among the weakest on FII?

No I think you got it reversed there if anything. 

This for sure. Good grief, man.

[?]

Anyone else think LITS, HK and TOT are among the weakest on FII?

No I think you got it reversed there if anything. 

[Crow]

LITS and HK are both top 10 DT songs
Trial of Tears is great too
I would say these are easily my top 3 from the album


so no

[Evermind]

I don't love LITS and HK, I think they're good, but nothing more. TOT, on the other hand, is totally among the best songs on FII.

And also this:

I'll fight the herd in favor of Hollow Years though. I've always loved it, though it's not something I really expected from DT when I first heard it. Another highlight in FII for me.

Hollow Years is just incredible.

[RoeDent]

What on earth is going on round here atm? Why is everyone suddenly turning on the epics? Not just for DT, but other bands as well. This is a prog band forum, for crying out loud!

[mikemangioy]

Nopenopenopenopenopenope

Lines In The Sand is so fun and great and epic, I don't mind Hell's Kitchen (IMO it worked better as part of Burning My Soul, even if the outro is godly), and Trial Of Tears has grown on me a lot lately.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

I'll fight the herd in favor of Hollow Years though. I've always loved it, though it's not something I really expected from DT when I first heard it. Another highlight in FII for me.

Hollow Years is just incredible.

The LAB version is incredible, but it makes the studio version unlistenable in comparison for me.

[wolfking]

Anyone else feel this way?

Absolutely not.

[Dublagent66]

Anyone else feel this way?

Absolutely not.

This.  All 3 songs are held in very high regard and rightfully so.