New album 2015 predictions

[Randaran]

I would love if at least part of a song is like IT's Easter Egg. Or even better, an entire song like that. It would make a nice break between some of the presumably longer, proggier tracks.

ADTOE is their best album in terms of song lengths. It had a few shorter songs ranging from 4-7 minutes, one song that approaches 9 minutes, while the rest was 10-13 minutes. I would like to see something similar on DT13.

[took_the_time11]

I say new concept album. That would be awesome. I'm sure we'll hear some seaboard action. Since DT has had a fresh start with a Mangini, I'm sure they have something big in the works.

[yeah_93]

I hope they do something bold.

[Lucien]

I would love if at least part of a song is like IT's Easter Egg. Or even better, an entire song like that. It would make a nice break between some of the presumably longer, proggier tracks.

This, 100%

[The Presence of Frenemies]

Agreed that (long) ambient breaks in epics should be eschewed. Of course, just because DT is 0-for-2 (or maybe .5-for-2 if I give some credit for the transition out of the TCOT section) on them doesn't mean it's impossible to make it work, but even if DT did come up with a good one, the fact that their last two 17+ minute songs had the ambient section would render it a bit of a stale move.

Incidentally, for those who, like me, enjoy all of IT except the ambient bits, try going into Audacity, crop all the ambient noise/orchestra out, and just crossfade the fadeout into the noise with the whooshing sound that leads to the Myung/Mangini riff. I was very pleasantly surprised by how non-jarring it sounded, and it really made it a much better song for me. Might not work for everyone but worth a shot.

[YtseJamittaja]

I would love if at least part of a song is like IT's Easter Egg. Or even better, an entire song like that. It would make a nice break between some of the presumably longer, proggier tracks.

This, 100%

Hmm, that could work. Like Through My Words or even Vacant or Far From Heaven but instrumental. That could be the skip track from the album in the future but if it was concept album, that could be nice breath of fresh air between proggier and heavier tracks.

[hefdaddy42]

They need another song in that 14-17 minute range; shorter than a side-length epic typically is, but longer than their usual long-songs of 10-14 minutes (of which they have a TON).

No, they don't NEED another song like that.

[ariich]

If they *must* do an epic - please don't do the "stop for 5 minutes in the middle and have an ambient section" again.

Yeah, please none of this. I read a description of the songs from DT12 before the album was released, and when I got to IT I actually thought the writer had confused it with TCoT, since it apparently had the exact same structure. Twice is one too many in this case. Or maybe even two too many, since I like neither of them.

I can't be the only one who finds the two songs completely different structurally?

TCOT I see as basically being two parts. The first part covers everything up to the ambient section - it builds up and is energetic, lots of classic prog goodness. It then slows down and the whole second part is more chilled and slow. Sure it builds up again, but it never gets heavy again. It's all very smooth.

Whereas IT is very different. It jumps around a lot, and the transitions in and out of the ambient section are more sudden (which I have no problem with, by the way). It's a heavy song with an ambient section in the middle.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

To me, the only thing Dream Theater needs to do is write good songs. Some of these requests are oddly specific, like "they need a song no shorter than 14 minutes but no longer than 17 minutes".

[ariich]

To me, the only thing Dream Theater needs to do is write good songs. Some of these requests are oddly specific, like "they need a song no shorter than 14 minutes but no longer than 17 minutes".

Jeez, you're just so unseasoned.

[RoeDent]

To me, the only thing Dream Theater needs to do is write good songs. Some of these requests are oddly specific, like "they need a song no shorter than 14 minutes but no longer than 17 minutes".

We're not requesting anything of them. We're just speculating. They could do absolutely anything. They could make an album of 3-minute pop songs. They could make a reggae album, for all we know.

This is not "I won't buy the album unless it has a 14-17 minute song on it, in three parts, without an ambient section."

Analyzing and speculating is what we do round here. It kills time before the details are revealed.

[rumborak]

I'm with Xanadu though. These minute markers have become a quality indicator to quite a few people it seems.

[RoeDent]

That's because DT (and all prog bands, in fact) have such a good track record with the long-form songs. It's what distinguishes prog from mainstream pop. Prog is a feature-length film to pop's TV show. If an album has an epic on it, it's always the most discussed, and in many cases the most liked song on the album. And before its release, it's more often than not the most anticipated song on the album.

[ariich]

Yeah in defense of people asking for longer songs, other people ask for shorter songs.

I personally couldn't care less about song lengths, as long as they're appropriate to each song. Sometimes DT drags songs on too long unnecessarily. Sometimes they try too hard to keep songs short and they end too abruptly.

Prog is a feature-length film to pop's TV show.

I would have said it's the other way round, surely? A film generally tells a self-contained story in a couple of hours and it's done. In a TV show the story lasts for hours and hours, with much slower plot and character development.

[rumborak]

I would actually say the ratio of "good vs not-so-good" is the same in DT's epics as it is in their shorter songs. I think it's just that, in a shorter song, a weak section constitutes 50% of the song. In an epic, that weak section will pass quickly and be replaced by a different section. So, I think epics get away better because they are less likely to be "destroyed" by a weak section like a short song is.
And I think it's partly due to the way they write in the studio. Most bands/artists write more songs than usually end up on an album, and they weed out the weak ones. To my understanding, ever since SFAM I think, there are no "dropped songs" anymore. A musical idea is either axed the moment it comes up, or it will survive, for better or for worse. They make a song out of it, close the song, and move on to the next thing until the CD time limit is reached.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

We're not requesting anything of them. We're just speculating. They could do absolutely anything. They could make an album of 3-minute pop songs. They could make a reggae album, for all we know.

This is not "I won't buy the album unless it has a 14-17 minute song on it, in three parts, without an ambient section."

Analyzing and speculating is what we do round here. It kills time before the details are revealed.

You see the humor in it though, don't you? I'm loving the anticipation and passion surrounding their next album. It's great. Sometimes the excitement leads to funny comments though, and I'm as guilty of it as anyone. One time I think I said it would be cool if DT did an album with all acoustic guitars.

[rumborak]

I demand a free pancake with the new album. Otherwise it's a no-buy.

[BlobVanDam]

I demand a free pancake with the new album. Otherwise it's a no-buy.

Now that would be a unique digipak design; CD slotted into one side, pancake slotted into the other.

[King Postwhore]

Buttermilk or Blueberry?

I don't know.

Jettison Rumborak in the air.

[rumborak]

I demand a free pancake with the new album. Otherwise it's a no-buy.

Now that would be a unique digipak design; CD slotted into one side, pancake slotted into the other.

It would be hard to do batter.

[Lucien]

That's because DT (and all prog bands, in fact) have such a good track record with the long-form songs. It's what distinguishes prog from mainstream pop. Prog is a feature-length film to pop's TV show. If an album has an epic on it, it's always the most discussed, and in many cases the most liked song on the album. And before its release, it's more often than not the most anticipated song on the album.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that generalization. Take Rush, for instance. Sure, you've got their first 8 years or so, up to 1982, which has quite a few epics and long songs. But once you get to Signals, there are no more long songs, but it is still very much "prog" with time signature changes and different musical styles. They didn't have a song over 7 minutes again until Clockwork Angels in 2012. That's 30 years of short songs that are still VERY progressive.

[Sycsa]

I would love if at least part of a song is like IT's Easter Egg. Or even better, an entire song like that. It would make a nice break between some of the presumably longer, proggier tracks.

They should start a new meta-album by starting DT13 where DT12 left off.

That's because DT (and all prog bands, in fact) have such a good track record with the long-form songs. It's what distinguishes prog from mainstream pop. Prog is a feature-length film to pop's TV show. If an album has an epic on it, it's always the most discussed, and in many cases the most liked song on the album. And before its release, it's more often than not the most anticipated song on the album.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that generalization. Take Rush, for instance. Sure, you've got their first 8 years or so, up to 1982, which has quite a few epics and long songs. But once you get to Signals, there are no more long songs, but it is still very much "prog" with time signature changes and different musical styles. They didn't have a song over 7 minutes again until Clockwork Angels in 2012. That's 30 years of short songs that are still VERY progressive.

Gentle Giant is an ever better example to illustrate the exception, as arguably they played the most technical, versatile, off-the-wall prog in the '70s without having a single song that reached the 10(!) minute mark. But otherwise many classic prog albums are indeed centered around and carried by the epic (Tarkus, Close to the Edge, Foxtrot, Meddle, 2112, Thick as a Brick - the whole album is one song), hence this meme:

[1neeto]

An outside producer that way JP can concentrate just on the
awesome riffs that will make this the ultimate DT album     

Or to simply tell them when something doesn't sound good. like the horrible over compressing of DT12. I still can't get over how bad MM's snare sounds. Which is a shame because it does sound great live!

[hefdaddy42]

To me, the only thing Dream Theater needs to do is write good songs. Some of these requests are oddly specific, like "they need a song no shorter than 14 minutes but no longer than 17 minutes".

Jeez, you're just so unseasoned.

lol

[TheOutlawXanadu]

To me, the only thing Dream Theater needs to do is write good songs. Some of these requests are oddly specific, like "they need a song no shorter than 14 minutes but no longer than 17 minutes".

Jeez, you're just so unseasoned.

lol

[hefdaddy42]

[The Letter M]

If they release a song that is between 14 and 17 minutes on the next album and you all love, you all have to thank me. Because I called it in this thread!

Now, if they write a song between 14-17 minutes and it sucks...don't blame me.

-Marc.

[JediKnight1969]

I want Bob Ezrin as a producer to tell them: "let me handle this. You guys, go crazy."

[Cool Chris]

I predict (mostly valid) complaints about the album artwork.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

When it comes to the longer tracks, if there are some (odds are there will be), I'm hoping that we don't get much of this:

(long intro->verse 1->chorus 1->break->verse 2->chorus 2->bridge->EXTREMELY LONG INSTRUMENTAL SECTION->verse 3->chorus 3->outro)

Not that DT has never written a good song in this style (they have), but it seems to me that a large portion of their JR-era epics do something like this (BTL, Home, ES, TMOLS, ITNOG to an extent, and most of the ADTOE ones). To me, this format a) has already been done so much that it's a bit stale, b) isn't as creative/inventive as something that, say, has four or five verses, two different types of choruses, and a number of shorter and varied instrumental sections, and c) the instrumental sections tend to wander so much that they often really take away from the songwriting (see: Outcry). Having one of these songs would be fine, but I'd love to see something structured more like The Killing Hand or The Best of Times (whatever you think of those songs--I happen to love both--they're fairly unique structurally among DT tracks, especially TKH). As TKH proves, this also would allow the band to sound very proggy without taking up 15+ minutes (not that I'm opposed to them doing so).

[TAC]

, but I'd love to see something structured more like The Killing Hand or The Best of Times (whatever you think of those songs--I happen to love both--they're fairly unique structurally among DT tracks, especially TKH). As TKH proves, this also would allow the band to sound very proggy without taking up 15+ minutes (not that I'm opposed to them doing so).

GREAT tunes!!

[hefdaddy42]

Mediocre tunes at best, but interesting structures, for sure.

[Mosh]

I'd like them to approach long songs the way they did on Six Degrees. Those songs were progressive in every sense of the word, the forms seemed very free flowing and there's no predictability on where the songs are going. A lot of their long tracks since then have been very predictable.

[TheGreatPretender]

So, as I mentioned in the Day in the Life Of JLB thread, he said, "I know what album we're recording, I just can't say." So there seems to be some preconceived idea about what they are going to write. Not sure whether it's in terms of the subject matter, or music, but it seems like there is going to be a particular direction to this one, and they already know what it is.

[rumborak]

That's not really different from DT12, is it? Say what you will about the sound, but it was clearly a choiced one.