The Kansas Discography Thread - THAT'S ALL, FOLKS (For Now)

[Sycsa]

Overall, the band is tight, but if there's a weak link, it's Phil Ehart, the drummer.

You mean overall, or just on this live release? I think he's still a great drummer, with lots of energy, memorable fills and grooves and some nice odd-time beats.

[Orbert]

Just on this live album.  And I haven't re-listened since reading Rumby's comment, as I only saw it this morning, so I probably shouldn't even say that (yet).

On the studio albums, he's like a machine.  They have some really complex arrangements, and he's right there with them.

[rumborak]

Yeah, I never perceived him to be a weak link on the studio albums. Just on that live release, he's really having a hard time coming back in at the right time.

[hefdaddy42]

FYI Saturday morning has become the official "new album post" day.  lol

[Podaar]

I'm neither surprised nor disappointed! 

[hefdaddy42]

I'm neither surprised nor disappointed! 

You're the meaning in my life
You're the inspiration

[Podaar]

[The Letter M]

I've been a bit absent from this thread for a couple of weeks now, but I will say that POKR has grown on me over the years. It took some time because the first three albums really struck me as being their best, with Leftoverture being just a tad under them, so I never really gave POKR much of a chance. Since my initial discovery of Kansas, I've listened to it a bit more and have come to enjoy it as much as their 4th album.

As for the live album, the original 1-disc version was pretty good, but the remaster with the 2nd disc really blew me away, and it stands as their definitive live album for me, like Genesis' Seconds Out or Yes' Yessongs. I haven't spun it in years, though, so I'm not familiar with the troubles that Phil had with his drum parts, so I'll have to revisit it sometime soon.

I'll try to be more active for the coming albums because I know these are the ones I'm the LEAST familiar with. I was really into them when I first discovered the band, but have since not spun them in years.

-Marc.

[hefdaddy42]

Oh my dear sweet Lord

[hefdaddy42]

MONOLITH (1979)



"Travelling with no destination, just riding the tide"

1.   On The Other Side (Livgren)               6:24
2.   People of the South Wind (Livgren)            3:41
3.   Angels Have Fallen (Walsh)               6:37
4.   How My Soul Cries Out For You (Walsh)            5:41
5.   A Glimpse of Home (Livgren)               6:36
6.   Away From You (Walsh)                  4:23
7.   Stay Out of Trouble (Walsh, Williams, Steinhardt)      4:13
8.   Reason To Be (Livgren)                   3:51

Kansas entered the studio in February 1979 for their first self-produced studio album, which would become Monolith.  The album was released in May 1979, and was darker and heavier than most of their previous music.

The first track on the album, “On The Other Side,” feels very much like a classic Kansas tune, and is a great opener.  The lyrical theme of the song was about songwriting itself.  It features lots of classic Kansas songwriting staples, with great Livgren lyrics and soaring vocals from Walsh.

The second tune, “People of the South Wind,” whose title is the literal translation of the word Kansas in the language of the Kansa Native Americans, was about “our past and the old days and all the people we knew,” according to Kerry Livgren.  “We had some phenomenally interesting times when we lived back there [in Kansas].  I guress once we got successful, had sold [millions of] records and sold out Madison Square Garden, I went through a period where I was a little bit nostalgic about our earlier days – when we were younger, more idealistic, and much more interested in just being great musicians.  Even though it was a song that I wrote, I remember not really wanting it to go on the album.  It was a little on the light side for Kansas.  It felt a lot more powerful live than it did on the original recording.”  FWIW, I agree with him, it is a little “light.”  This song has never really resonated with me.  But at any rate, it was the album’s first single, released on June 2, 1979, and it peaked at # 23 in August.

The third track, “Angels Have Fallen,” has somewhat of a classic Kansas “epic” feel, with a piano/vocal intro, followed by a majestic full-band section/chorus, then a guitar-only section, followed by a sweet instrumental section, coming back to piano & guitar, final chorus, then piano/violin closing.  A lot of the sections are nice (except the intro, which feels contrived to me), but overall this song feels like “Kansas by the numbers.”  I like it, but certainly don’t love it.

Next up is “How My Soul Cries Out For You.”  This is a more hard rocking song for the band, and there are some really tasty instrumental sections here, but for me, this song falls flat from a lyrical standpoint.  I like what they were going for instrumentally (except for that weird non-musical section in the middle, followed by the drum solo – no need for that), but the lyrics let the song down.  In other words, this song is, for me, the most glaring example of why perhaps self-producing was not the best idea in the world for this band.  This song could surely have used an outsider’s perspective (and scalpel).

“A Glimpse of Home” is the next song, and is lyrically about Livgren’s continuing spiritual quest.  At this point, he had been through multiple spiritual influences, always reflected in his lyrics, and he was at the time a devotee of the Urantia Book, and hadn’t yet settled on his ultimate destination, Christianity.  “I’ve described it to people as if you were in a barrel and you were about to go over Niagara Falls, but you didn’t know where you were headed.  You’re just headed down the river in this barrel and you know you’re moving.  Then all of a sudden you can feel the spray, you can hear the rumble, and you know something really big is coming – but you’re not quite there yet.  And you’re afraid to go over it, but there’s nothing you can do about it.”  For my money, this is one of the most successful songs on the album.  The music works well with the lyrics for a cohesive whole.  In the grand spectrum of Kansas songs, it may not rank very high, but it is definitely one of the best on this album.

Up next is “Away From You.”  This song is somewhat schizophrenic for me.  The intro, verses, and instrumental section sound very much like something that could have come from those magical first three albums, but the chorus is problematic, sounding out of place and cheesy.  I feel very good and very bad about this song.  Of course, that disjointed feel makes it a perfect representation of this album.

The next track is “Stay Out of Trouble.”  Unfortunately, this song doesn’t follow its own advice.  This is one of the rare Kansas tracks (to this point) that work for me on no level whatsoever.  The last line of the first verse is “and inside your head is an awful sound” and that is 100% accurate.  By far the least satisfying song on this album, and one of the worst to date for the band IMHO.

Closing out the album is “Reason To Be,” which was also the album’s second single.  This song features no real verse/chorus structure, going instead with three stanzas.  It is dominated musically by acoustic guitar.  This is a satisfying end to what was a rather unsatisfying album for me.  The single was released September 8, 1979 and peaked at # 52 in October.

Monolith had a mixed reception upon release.  It reached # 10 in July 1979, and was certified Gold on June 18.  The album sold over 800,000 copies, which isn’t bad, but after three consecutive Platinum albums, the number was disappointing.

The band supported the album with an 87-city U.S. tour.  They started off performing the entire album, but by the end of the tour they had dropped half of the songs in favor of older, more popular numbers.  In fact, the band was so convinced that the fans didn’t like the album that after this tour, they didn’t perform any of the songs again until the mid 90’s.

[KevShmev]

I get why this album didn't do that well, considering it has some total throwaway songs (How My Soul Cries Out and Stay out of Trouble) and a totally bland lead single (People of the South Wind), but A Glimpse of Home and On the Other Side are both absolutely tremendous, and I like Away from You and Angles Have Fallen a lot as well.  This album was definitely a drop-off for the band, but the good songs on this one are so good that I can't help but defend the album from the usual criticism.

[King Postwhore]

I feel the same way as Kev.  When I went into their back catalog getting into them this was a mixed album for me.

[Podaar]

I really like this album, a lot.

*hangs his head in shame and slinks away*

[King Postwhore]

It's not that i don't like it.  It's a lesser album for them.

[Orbert]

So this is weird.  After become enamored with Kansas following the receipt of Leftoverture as a gift from the unforgettable LeeAnn, I dove into the first five Kansas albums with great abandon, and ate them all up.  Point of Know Return felt like the first time they weren't really breaking any new ground, and the lack of any real epics was disappointing, as this is around the time when I was getting more into Prog, and Kansas, one of the bands that had steered me in that direction, was letting me down.  But I know that there are people who really love Point of Know Return, and that's fine, because it's a great album.  So I thought "What if Point of Know Return was my first Kansas album?"  Then it would be Leftoverture and the others which felt like "more of the same" even if they had come earlier.  Your first exposure to a band keeps a very special impression, even if that album later is no longer your favorite.  Like your first girlfriend, your first car, etc.  Maybe not the best, but will always be special.

So anyway, Monolith never did anything for me, and the "more of the same" had actually become "more of the same, only less" which of course is even worse.  But I've listened to it twice this week, once in the car and once over earphones, with this thought in mind: "What if this was the first Kansas album I'd ever heard?"  What if I was some junior high kid in 1979, and got this album on a whim?  Nothing that has come after exists yet, and I'm not aware of much that came before it, because I really just started listening to music other than what I catch on the radio.

I would be fucking blown away, that's what.  Many have commented on how this is "lesser" Kansas album, and it is, especially when compared to what came before it.  But on its own merits, yeah there are a few missteps, but this is a very good album.  It rocks, it gets heavy, it gets light, it brings the acoustic, it brings the prog, it takes some chances, (some of which don't pay off -- that weird break in "How My Soul Cries Out For You" will always be a head-scratcher), but overall, this is an impressive album.

For Kansas fans, not necessarily great.  They were even starting to repeat themselves.  That awesome bomp-bomp, bomp, bomp rhythm from "Icarus" shows up in "A Glimpse of Home" and is quite jarring.  And there was one other time I heard something which sounded just like another riff from an earlier Kansas album... I can't remember it now.

But solely on its own merits, if I didn't have any other Kansas albums and this was my introduction to the band, I would be very, very impressed.  My appreciation for this album has gone up quite a bit due to this realization, and to me, that's a good thing.  It's not just more of the same; they do try a few new things, and I like the darker, heavier sound which seems to crop up a bit more, making the acoustic stuff even better by contrast.

[jammindude]

It's funny that you should mention that, Orbert.   Because I was not quite 10 years old when this album was released, and People of the Southwind was the very first Kansas song I had ever heard.   I went out and bought the 45rpm right away and played it to death.   But I was a "singles" kid back then, and wouldn't get into exploring albums until later.

In fact, I wouldn't truly discover Kansas until years later, and to this day I have never heard ANY of the albums after Point of Know Return.  (and heck, I even have a copy of Audio-Visions on vinyl that I picked up at a garage sale...sometimes I end up buying stacks of vinyl for 25 cents a pop, and then I never get around to listening to them all.  AV fell victim to that, but I'll get to that later)

I don't even own a copy of Monolith, but I'll see if I can dig it up online somewhere.   

To me, THIS is the funnest part of the album discussion threads.    It's interesting to hear other people's opinions about albums you already know, but for myself, it is much more interesting to hear bigger fans than myself discuss albums I never got around to hearing.   

[Orbert]

Wow, you played the single to death, and even now, have never heard the album?  You really should.  I'll bet you'll like it.

My singles phase lasted about a week.  When I got my first job delivering newspapers, I was making $22 a week, which in 1974 was a lot of money.  I bought two 45's, which were 49 cents each at the local Walgreens, but then I bought the amazing four-LP live album Chicago at Carnegie Hall used for $5 from my friend's sister, and it was all albums from that point forward.  I had more albums than anybody else I knew all throughout school, and now that I think about it, I still have more than anyone else I know.  What can I say?  I'm a music junkie.

[jammindude]

Ya...and to be honest.   I'm truly fascinated by this thread because Kansas is one of those bands where I know them, I like everything I've heard, I've been meaning to hear more, I like what I've heard...but you know how some bands just seem to hang around #4 or 5 on the queue and never seem to rise to the top because you're just into other things at the moment??   Kansas is like that for me.   About 4 years ago, I gave numerous spins to Masque, Leftoverture, and PoKR and I loved them.  But then I never pulled them out again for whatever reason. 

Those are still the only albums I've heard.   I'm *DYING* to hear Song for America because it sounds like it's the most dark and proggy of the bunch.   Now it sounds like I may have to dig out a copy of Monolith as well. 

It's funny that most of my memories revolving around Monolith were on game shows.   "Guest of our studio audience today will receive...."        I think I saw this album being given away on The Price is Right and the original Make Me Laugh. 

[Jaq]

The first I ever heard of anything off of this album was a brief stint where MTV played the videos for Dust In The Wind (yes, it had one) and People of the South Wind. And I guess it says how much rock music had been influenced by a particular subgenre that it wasn't until I bought Monolith on CD when I was going through a Kansas phase, put it on, got to the only song I knew, and thought "Holy shit, how did I not realize People of the South Wind was a disco song." 

It was a thing in 1978 and 1979, though, to put out rock songs that showed off the influence of disco. Kiss did it. ELO did so many of them that Discovery was jokingly called DISCOvery, even by the band. And Kansas did it. I strongly suspect that live People did rock harder like Livgren said, but, wow, the first time I heard on CD was kind of mind blowing.

[Podaar]

In this thread I have learned that I have bad taste because I like; cheesy lyrics, bad harmonies, poor drumming, overly adventurous lead vocals, random party disaster effects in a song, testosterone fueled guitar based tough-guy songs, and now, finally, DISCO!

I can't take it...

It's like having someone smear feces on that blond cheerleader from the front row of second period 11th grade science class. You know, the one who would smile and flash a little leg when I went by?

Face full of shit, now.

[Orbert]

I guess I have a different definition of Disco than some.  I don't hear the standard guitar backbeat, or the hi-hat work, or the pedestrian bass line that, to me, characterizes Disco.  It has the same meter, but obviously meter alone doesn't define a genre.

[hefdaddy42]

I guess I have a different definition of Disco than some.  I don't hear the standard guitar backbeat, or the hi-hat work, or the pedestrian bass line that, to me, characterizes Disco.  It has the same meter, but obviously meter alone doesn't define a genre.

This.  The reference to "disco" in that song caught me completely off guard. 

[Jaq]

Oh you guys. 

I stand by what I said: it's a rock song influence by disco. If the Bee Gees had done it that damn keyboard part would have been strings. And hey, I still like the song (probably more than most here) but there were a lot of rock songs that may not have hit all the disco marks Orbert mentions but felt like they were written to fit in with the chart topping music of the times.

It probably helps me (or hurts depending on your viewpoint) that I grew up with two sisters who were massive disco fans, beyond the ten or so songs everyone knows from Saturday Night Fever. 

[hefdaddy42]

Just took a call from a customer who was blaring "Miracles Out of Nowhere" in the background.  So we talked about Kansas for a few minutes. 

[Orbert]

I stand by what I said: it's a rock song influence by disco.

Ah, but that's not what you said.  You said it was "a disco song" not "a rock song influenced by disco." 

I'll give you that it was influenced by disco, but that doesn't make it a disco song.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm not sure the guys in Kansas were hip and cool enough to intentionally write a song with disco in it.  I think it's a coincidence.

[Podaar]

^ Exactly.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, I love their music, but they were a bunch of goobers and rednecks.  I'm not sure they would know disco if someone shoved a disco ball up their ass.

I could be wrong.

[Podaar]

I could be wrong.

No. No, you can't be. You found an relevant and timely use for the noun 'goober'!

You, sir, have won the internet for today and are automatically correct for the rest of the day.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, I love their music, but they were a bunch of goobers and rednecks.  I'm not sure they would know disco if someone shoved a disco ball up their ass.

I could be wrong.

Let's leave Freddie Mercury and Hot Space out of this.

Also,

[hefdaddy42]

I could be wrong.

No. No, you can't be. You found an relevant and timely use for the noun 'goober'!

You, sir, have won the internet for today and are automatically correct for the rest of the day.

OK

[hefdaddy42]

AUDIO-VISIONS (1980)



"As the power grows, darkness spreading
Hope is still alive, though we're dreading
What the future holds"

1.   Relentless (Livgren)                  4:57
2.   Anything For You (Walsh)               3:58
3.   Hold On (Livgren)                  3:54
4.   Loner (Walsh)                     2:31
5.   Curtain of Iron (Livgren)                  6:12
6.   Got to Rock On (Walsh)                  3:21
7.   Don’t Open Your Eyes (Walsh, Williams, Livgren, Ehart, Hope)   4:06
8.   No One Together (Livgren)               6:58
9.   No Room For a Stranger (Williams, Walsh)         3:00
10.   Back Door (Walsh)                  4:24

The band also self-produced the next album, Audio-Visions, which was released in September 1980.  Kerry Livgren’s spiritual seeking came to an end, as he became a born-again Christian, (as did bassist Dave Hope), and that came out in his lyrical output on this album, which caused some contention with some other members of the band.

The album’s first track is “Relentless,” an uptempo rocker.  As an opener, it is fairly uninspired, with rather bland riffing and a simplistic chorus.  For me, it’s a pretty boring and disappointing song.  Definitely below the band’s standards.

Up next is “Anything For You.”  This is a piano-driven song which to my ears almost sounds like something Steely Dan might have written.  This is a very tastefully written song, showing musicianship without unnecessary flash or pyrotechnics, with pretty good lyrics.  Easily one of my favorites from this album.

“Hold On” is the track that most clearly displays Livgren’s new religious focus.  “Everybody thinks it’s a boy-girl song, but it isn’t,” he says.  “If you examine the lyrics, you’ll see it’s about man’s relationship to God.”  It’s not a typical boy-girl song, true, but he was writing the lyrics to his wife, who at this point had yet to join him in Christian faith.  It was released as the album’s first single on September 20, 1980, and peaked at # 40 in October.  It would be the final Top 40 single from the band’s original lineup.

“Loner” is a weird little song.  It has really generic-sounding riffage and lyrics, but has some interesting musical passages otherwise.  Overall, not really satisfying; another disappointment.

“Curtain of Iron” is actually a pretty interesting song.  It has some nice musical composition, with some mysterious, almost prophetic-sounding Biblically-derived lyrics.  It doesn’t have a lot of “prog” characteristics, but it definitely has that big majestic feel to it.  Definitely one of the best selections from this album.

The next song, “Got to Rock On,” is another rocker, obviously written to be a single.  It actually starts out OK, before devolving into a cheesy, derivative chorus, with a title seemingly designed to appeal more to average music fans rather than the Kansas fanbase.  Another disappointment on an album rife with them.  This was the album’s second single, released on December 27, 1980, peaking at # 76 in January 1981.

“Don’t Open Your Eyes” is just not very good.  Bad lyrics contained within uninspired music, other than the obligatory instrumental section, which isn’t bad.  Again, the best word is probably “disappointing.”

“No One Together” was originally written for the previous album Monolith, but was dropped from that album because Kerry Livgren lost an argument with Steve Walsh about whose song should make the cut (Walsh won with “How My Soul Cries Out For You”), so this track wound up falling to this album.  The song features some of the intricate musical arrangement that is the trademark for Kansas.  The song overall really hearkens back to the musical foundations laid down by the band in their first three albums much more so than any other track on this album.  Easily the standout from this album, but that isn’t necessarily saying much.

“No Room for a Stranger” is, well, not much.  It’s a short little song that screams “filler!”  Not much to say about it, really.

The song’s final track, “Back Door,” is a piano-driven song that also hearkens back to older Kansas, in a way.  The music marries well with the lyrics, that are foreshadowing the immediate future of the band.  A satisfying end to an unsatisfying album.  The major drawback for the song is Walsh’s synthesized bagpipes. *shudders*

The album was certified Gold in December 1980, but was the last album by the band to be so certified.  Reviews of the album were also not good.  The band toured the USA in the fall of 1980 and spring of 1981, then headed to Europe in the summer before returning to the USA for some final tour dates.

The album marked the end of an era.  With the new lyrical emphasis of faith as embodied in Christianity, Steve Walsh was decidedly uncomfortable and left the band to start his own new group, Streets.  This marked a huge chink in the band’s armor, with the band losing not only its keyboard player, but also lead vocalist and second main songwriter, and laid the ground for massive changes to come.  To be honest, after the last two albums, some change was probably necessary, but not necessarily the ones that actually happened.

[Podaar]

When this album came out, I pretty much looked at it the way you do in your write-up. I had gravitated toward heavier rock and metal by then so I kinda appreciated the band's emphasis on an edgier sound, but that's not what I really wanted from Kansas. There were other bands who rocked harder and less self-consciously. To me it's disappointing how little Livgren and Walsh wrote parts for Robby... or maybe it was the engineer who buried the violin in the mix or something. The art was definitely sparse for this art rock act. Maybe they'd been reading Rolling Stone too much and wanted appease the music press by showing their rocker side. If so, it failed miserably, Rolling Stone ripped them a new one over this record. 

My roommate loved this album. He was, at best, a disinterested prog fan and was much more of a rocker. I'm sure, to this day, he would tell you that Audio-visions and Monolith are Kansas' best albums. I heard it a lot back in the day, but I never bought it.

I was surprised this week when I was listening on Spotify in anticipation of this morning. My foot automatically tapped along. All the melodies sprung unbidden into my head. I'd find myself waking up with the first verse and chorus of "Loner" playing in my head. I'd start humming "Anything For You", unbidden, in the shower.

I'd say I enjoyed listening this week...perhaps more out of nostalgia than anything. I turned 19 in August of 1980 and my late teens and early twenties were great years full of transitioning to the responsibility of adulthood and being a young parent. Lots of good memories with great friends and family. This album invokes those feelings so please forgive me if I listen again and sing along joyfully.

Yeah, it's not a great Kansas album, but I think it's a good music album.

[Orbert]

I pretty much feel the same as Podaar.  It's not a bad album, just not great by Kansas standards.  I listened to it twice this week and it was rocking, catchy, and sounded like Kansas to me.  I wasn't listening to the lyrics much, so they didn't bother me, and probably would not have anyway, as I too became a "Born Again Christian" around this time.  (That's a term I haven't heard a lot lately.)

I also noted the lack of violin overall, which was disappointing.  But again, that's only a problem if you compare the album to earlier Kansas albums, or if you're Robbie Steinhardt.

Overall, these last two albums were not nearly as bad as I'd remembered.  And as I'd said about Monolith, if this was your first Kansas album, or for whatever reason this album has any particular meaning for you, I wouldn't have any problem with someone claiming it as their favorite, or just calling it a great album.  It sounds great, and it rocks.  But for longtime fans, it was another step down, and the band was clearly running out of gas at this point.

[KevShmev]

No love for Relentless??  I love that tune.  Great rocker, and the guitar solo is one of the best in the Kansas catalogue.

This record definitely has some throwaways, but Relentless and Hold On are both great, and I like Loner (fun little tune), Got to Rock On and No One Together all quite a bit.  I guess that's only half the songs, but this CD came out way after the others (like the later 90s, a while after I had gotten into Kansas big time), and I was pleasantly surprised that Hold On and No One Together weren't the only good songs on it, since I had heard otherwise.