The Kansas Discography Thread - THAT'S ALL, FOLKS (For Now)

[hefdaddy42]

I have never, ever thought of The Spider as Portrait's intro.  That just seems odd.

[Orbert]

It's the way they intentionally run one into the other, as though to say "these two tracks go together".  It's always been kinduva thing in rock to have an instrumental track as an intro to a song -- there are many, many examples -- and I figured this was Kansas' entry in the category.  But it's just as obvious that the two tracks are unrelated and were put together like that just because the first one's an instrumental.

I like to keep them together that way on my iPod because after listening to the album for years, I'm used to hearing them together like that.  That's all.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, but the way I was looking at it, songs from bands from that era that go together are normally played together on the radio, too.  "Heartbreaker/Livin Lovin Maid" from Led Zeppelin, "We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions" from Queen, you know.

I've never heard "The Spider" on the radio, but I've heard "Portrait" many times.  So I've always associated them as being separate things, even though they run together.

Just me.  Carry on.

[rumborak]

Just dropping in to say, excellent album, what a terrible album/song name.
Overall, Kansas was laying it on a bit too thick occasionally with their lyrics.

[Orbert]

Yeah, but the way I was looking at it, songs from bands from that era that go together are normally played together on the radio, too.  "Heartbreaker/Livin Lovin Maid" from Led Zeppelin, "We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions" from Queen, you know.

I've never heard "The Spider" on the radio, but I've heard "Portrait" many times.  So I've always associated them as being separate things, even though they run together.

Just me.  Carry on.

I was thinking more along the lines of Space Intro/Fly Like an Eagle, or Prelude 12/Suite Madame Blue.  Instrumental track which is separate, but serves nicely as an intro to the "main" song which follows.  Foreplay/Long Time came later, but was the same thing.  That's different from two fully developed songs which happen to run into each other, to me anyway.

The FM station in Lansing used to play The Spider/Portrait (He Knew) together all the time, so to me this was the same thing.  I guess if that's not in your experience, you wouldn't think of it that way.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah.

[Prog Snob]

I gave this CD a couple of good listens over the past two days.  While it doesn't blow me away like Leftoverture does, it still is an amazing album.  I really love The Spider as I find it to be a great example of what a prog rock instrumental should sound like. Unfortunately, it is such a short song that as soon as you are really getting into, the song is over.  Also, songs like Closet Chronicles and Hopelessly Human give this album indelible praise from me.

Hef, I read this interesting write-up on Wikipedia regarding Portrait and thought you would find it interesting as well: 

"The inspiration for the song came from Kerry Livgren's admiration for Albert Einstein. He wrote the lyrics in a time when he was going through a spiritual transitional phase in his life, and after converting to Christianity, he re-recorded the song with his band AD, modifying the lyrics to make them fit the life of Jesus Christ."

[Sycsa]

what a terrible album/song name.

Yeah, in order to work, puns should exploit at least two meanings of a word. Replacing "no" with "know" doesn't add anything meaningful, it's kindergarten level. I guess they got frisky after Leftoverture, which was a more successful attempt at humor.

[hefdaddy42]

Hef, I read this interesting write-up on Wikipedia regarding Portrait and thought you would find it interesting as well: 

"The inspiration for the song came from Kerry Livgren's admiration for Albert Einstein. He wrote the lyrics in a time when he was going through a spiritual transitional phase in his life, and after converting to Christianity, he re-recorded the song with his band AD, modifying the lyrics to make them fit the life of Jesus Christ."

That's interesting.  Maybe I can track down that version and show it to the music director at church so we can perform it lol

Other than that, I'm not that interested.  But it's his song, so whatever.

[hefdaddy42]

Guess what?

Go ahead.  Guess.

[King Postwhore]

It's Hump day?

[hefdaddy42]

Close enough.

[hefdaddy42]

TWO FOR THE SHOW (1978)



1.   Song For America
2.   Point of Know Return
3.   Paradox
4.   Icarus – Borne on Wings of Steel
5.   Portrait (He Knew)
6.   Carry On Wayward Son
7.   Journey From Mariabronn
8.   Dust In The Wind
9.   Lonely Wind
10.   Mysteries & Mayhem
11.   Excerpt From Lamplight Symphony
12.   The Wall
13.   Closet Chronicles
14.   Magnum Opus

The next release from the band was their first live album, Two For The Show.  Released in October 1978, it had been recorded on their sold-out tour supporting Point of Know Return, which featured their first concert dates in Europe.  The album stayed on the charts for 15 weeks, reaching # 32 in January 1979. An edited version of the performance of the debut album’s “Lonely Wind” was released as a single, which reached # 60 in February 1979.

The album was certified Gold on November 16, 1978, and platinum on March 14, 1979.  This was the band’s first self-produced album, and was the beginning of a period where the group had more control over their albums.  And this one turned out fairly well.  Kerry Livgren said, “On most other people’s live albums, there’s extensive re-recording.  Two For The Show is pure, pristine, live Kansas.  I was always real proud that we were able to take the same songs that we had done in the studio and play them live – and they sounded great.”

Overall, it is a mixed bag for me.  On the one hand, the songs are clearly performed very well, and are accurate translations in a live setting, which is very impressive.  On the other hand, none of the live versions are better than the original studio recordings; none of these are the definitive versions of these songs.  So, it is pleasant and interesting to listen to, but give me the studio albums any day.  Just my two cents.

When the album was released on CD, Closet Chronicles was omitted due to time constraints.  However, in 2008, the album was remastered and released as a double-disc release, with the second disc containing songs recorded for the original but never included.  Closet Chronicles was on the second disc.  Here is the track listing for the second disc of that version of the album.

1.   Incomudro – Hymn to the Atman (intro)/Hopelessly Human
2.   Child of Innocence
3.   Belexes
4.   Cheyenne Anthem
5.   Lonely Street
6.   Miracles Out of Nowhere
7.   The Spider (w/drum solo)
8.   Closet Chronicles
9.   Down The Road
10.   Sparks of the Tempest
11.   Bringing it Back

[Orbert]

I feel pretty much the same way as you about the "value" of this album.  The music is all performed well, and it's impressive that they were (and are) able to pull off some intricate arrangements in a live setting.  No overdubs!  Kansas shows from that period must've kicked major ass.  But yeah, while it's impressive what they've done, I don't often go this album when I want to rock out to Kansas.  The studio versions are still superior.

The second CD adds quite a lot.  Last summer, I took a solo road trip (my annual pilgrimage to Michigan) and cranked this album out, all the way through, the CD version.  That second CD is awesome!  A lot of it was probably because I haven't heard it as much as the songs on the first disc, having owned the vinyl since it came out, but if you look at the track listing, you'll see that the songs are more for showing off the band and its chops, and less focused on the hits.  Not that there's a lack of chops on the original release.

Anyway, this is a great chronicle of Kansas at their peak, so if you like live albums, this is a good one.  I always found the sound quality a bit lacking, but it's much better on the CD version, which I assume anybody getting this album nowadays would get.

[KevShmev]

I've actually never heard this live album, and despite my love for Kansas, I still have no urge to ever seek it out. 

[Podaar]

I've been listening to the wrong album all this week!! 

I've never heard this either, I'll have to find it and listen today.

[Orbert]

It's definitely worth a listen.  There's no way to go back in time and catch a 1970's Kansas show, but this album pretty much does that.  And knowing that this is all really them, no studio trickery, makes it even better.

[KevShmev]

I'm sure you are right, but I am generally not a live album guy, and I rarely feel the need to listen or watch something just so I can say I did it.  It'd probably be a "I listened to it once and never again" kind of thing. 

[kirksnosehair]

"Two For The Show" is my hands-down favorite live album of all time 

[Orbert]

I'm sure you are right, but I am generally not a live album guy, and I rarely feel the need to listen or watch something just so I can say I did it.  It'd probably be a "I listened to it once and never again" kind of thing. 

I'm not saying to listen to it just to say that you did it; I think it really is impressive what these guys could do with these complex arrangements in a live setting, and I would suggest that any fan of the band at least check it out.

But I understand not being into live albums.  They can be hit or miss with me.

[KevShmev]

I hear ya. I see the whole thing is up on YT, so maybe I'll give it a whirl this week.  Maybe. 

[King Postwhore]

I just played this last week.  Remember how big live albums were around this time?

[Orbert]

If you were hot, it was definitely a "thing" to put out a live album.  Usually, by time a band actually hit it big, they had a few albums behind them, even three or four (or in this case, five).

Of course, there was no YouTube, or Internet, or even DVDs or home video of any kind back then.  If you didn't see them in concert, then the closest you could come was hoping to catch them on The Midnight Special or Don Kirshner's Rock Concert (in which case you got to see maybe two or three songs, and just the hits), or if they put out a live album.  That was it.  Live albums had a different meaning back then.

[King Postwhore]

They sure did.  I think the only other show I remember was Night Flight on USA and The Blue Jean Network concerts. Unless HBO had a concert like the Kiss one from Budokan.

[Counselor of Prog]

In 2011, Sony Music released the 1974-83, ten-album box set Kansas: the Classic Albums.  For around $40, these remastered discs were a steal.  Two For the Show is included in this package.  While this isn't the greatest live album ever made, it has its fair share of shining moments IMO.   

[Podaar]

I've been listening to this album this week.

While I agree that the music is mostly faithful to the albums (the extra flourishes at the end of "Portrait (He Knew)" being a notable exception), the vocals really stand out as live performances, in a good way. I think this is a very worthwhile listen just for the variations and heartfelt performances of the vocals!

[finn the fisherman]

I've been listening to this album this week.

While I agree that the music is mostly faithful to the albums (the extra flourishes at the end of "Portrait (He Knew)" being a notable exception), the vocals really stand out as live performances, in a good way. I think this is a very worthwhile listen just for the variations and heartfelt performances of the vocals!

 
One of the great live albums of the seventies was surely realized due to the extraordinary vocal talents of Steve Walsh.His performances on these recordings are without equal!

[Orbert]

Funny, I just came in here to post the exact opposite.  I too have been listening to this album this week, and what strikes me is that the band plays very tightly, meanwhile Steve Walsh basically screams for a few hours.  I'm not saying that he should just stick to the studio version, but there's got to be some middle ground between actually singing the song as people know it and changing every single line, often changing the melody in ways that just plain don't make musical sense.

I get it.  It's a live album and Steve is cutting loose.  I guess I just don't like how "loose" he cuts.  There are places where he's supposed to be singing harmony with Robbie, and it's not even harmony because Steve has changed a lot of the notes.

[Podaar]

The only harmony that struck me as wrong and got my attention in a negative way was the chorus to "Carry On Wayward Son". I plan on listening through, one last time, this afternoon. So we'll see.

[Orbert]

"Song for America" third verse, "Point of Know Return", "Closet Chronicles", there are spots in lots of songs where those awesome tight harmonies are blown because Walsh isn't singing the original notes, meanwhile Steinhardt sticks to the original arrangements.

[rumborak]

Started listening to the album just now. Man, the drummer is always every-so-slightly behind in the beginning of Song For America. It's killing me.
EDIT: Holy crap, he's also really struggling with the fills in Carry On Wayward Son. You can tell the rest of the band has learned to accommodate his coming back in too early.

[Podaar]

Orbert,

I definitely heard what you're talking about during this latest listen. If you listen to their concerts from 1975 or so, Walsh doesn't go searching for alternate melodies/harmonies nearly as much. Maybe some of the "prima donna" he admitted to was coming out when they recorded Two For the Show?

It bothered me more than on the previous listens, now that it had been pointed out, but overall I think this is a great concert CD!

[Orbert]

Podaar,

Sorry, I didn't mean to ruin it for you or anything; I certainly wasn't trying to.  Now that it's pointed out, it will be harder to ignore, but as long as you're still good with it, that's what counts.  Steve Walsh certainly isn't the first singer to do this kind of thing, not more than I like, anyway.  Heck, when Once in a LIVETime first came out, people said the same thing about James.  The band, the music, was awesome, meanwhile James seemed to be wailing uncontrollably.  I didn't think it was that bad, but I could see their point.

Overall, I do still think it's a good live album, but in general I prefer lead singers, and everyone else actually, to stick more to what's familiar.  It doesn't have to be a carbon copy of the studio arrangement -- that would be boring -- but as I said, there's got to be some middle ground.

Rumby,

You know, there's always been something just a bit "off" about that (the beginning of "Song for America") and I could never figure out what it was.  Overall, the band is tight, but if there's a weak link, it's Phil Ehart, the drummer.

[Podaar]

Nah, you didn't ruin anything. I appreciate the musical education you always provide in any of these discussions. Besides, my previous listens weren't proper to begin with...having it playing on my computer while talking with co-workers, customers and doing computer work isn't really listening, you know? Yesterday, I played it on the living room stereo while sipping an adult beverage and petting my labrador. Now that's a proper listen! 

Ehart's hair probably was getting in his way while drumming. Dude had seriously long hair in those days!

[Orbert]

Damned hippies!