Author Topic: The Kansas Discography Thread - THAT'S ALL, FOLKS (For Now)  (Read 44808 times)

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Offline Sacul

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #105 on: January 31, 2015, 02:20:53 PM »
I'm just familiar with the opening track, but I really like it. The rest of the album is great also. I think DT gave it some spins while working on SFAM, cause I can hear some resemblances.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #106 on: January 31, 2015, 03:08:09 PM »
Orbert, I have already been taken to task by Kev about my non-love of Cheyenne Anthem. What can I say, I am the odd man out. The verses just bore me to tears.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #107 on: January 31, 2015, 05:32:55 PM »
Yeah, but this is a transgression so severe that I felt the need to pile it on.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2015, 05:37:23 PM »
 :lol :lol

Offline Jaq

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2015, 06:23:28 PM »
Someone doesn't like Cheyenne Anthem?  :omg:

 :biggrin:

Leftoverture was one of the 20 plus prog albums I bought in July and August 1985 along with a stack of Pink Floyd, all of the four piece Genesis albums, some Yes, and Marillion's Misplaced Childhood. And it stood proud along side all of those albums. As I said before, I like Masque better, but Leftoverture is quintessential Kansas and if someone pointed at it and called it the best American prog rock album I wouldn't argue with them.

Plus, hey, it came out in 1976, The Best Year In Music Ever IMO.  :lol
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #110 on: February 02, 2015, 06:47:51 AM »
Yeah, but this is a transgression so severe that I felt the need to pile it on.
I understand.
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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #111 on: February 02, 2015, 08:03:29 AM »
Miracles out of Nowhere is hands off my favorite Kansas song and one of prog's finest moments ever. There is no other song where I enjoy the the changing odd time signatures as much as here. I love listening to Leftoverture while driving. One time, Miracles out of Nowhere just started playing when I arrived at my destination. I just couldn't get out of the car was compelled to stay there for good minutes, rewinding it again and again, until I had counted and nailed the time signature to the solo section and the reprise of the opening violin riff ("violin riff" - that's an ever stranger combination of words than "Kansas and nighties" - oh, what a truly unique and magnificent band we're dealing with here). Kansas also had some Gentle Giant influences, which shined through stronger here than anywhere else.

Lovely story, Orbert, got me all drooling.


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Offline chaossystem

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #112 on: February 03, 2015, 06:50:18 PM »
...how long...?...
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #113 on: February 04, 2015, 09:43:20 AM »
...how long...?...
to the Point of Know Return?

Friday if I remember, Saturday if I don't.
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Offline chaossystem

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #114 on: February 04, 2015, 01:53:14 PM »
Glad you got the hint/reference!

Also been meaning to say that it's nice to see so much love being given to one of my all-time favorite bands.
I can't stop the world from turning around, or the pull of the moon on the tide, but I don't believe that we're in this alone, I believe we're along for the ride...

Offline Beowulf

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #115 on: February 04, 2015, 02:01:08 PM »
Magnum Opus is the quintessential Kansas song.  It encapsulates everything that is Kansas.  That has always been my all-time favorite track by the band.  The entire Leftoverture album is solid, as is PoKR and Monolith as well.  To me, those three albums are teh greatest 3 albums.  And i do love the new expanded version of TFTS.  But Leftoverture really put the guys on the map, and to me are the original American Prog band.  But Magnum Opus IS Kansas.

I am a HUGE Kansas fan from back when my older brother and I pooled together our allowances to buy the very first album on 8-track (yes, i'm old) to seeing them a dozen or so times, i even have their K tattooed on my arm.  Granted, i haven't gone back to listen to much of them lately.  Even the last concert i went to was pretty pitiful.  They were the first opening act, followed by Styx (who sucked) and Foreigner.  Kansas was just "going through the motions" for their 40-minute set (see what i did there? :biggrin:)  And now without Steve Walsh, it simply isn't Kansas.  Just as the Elefante years wasn't really "Kansas", but a decent band with a great young singer.  But Steve is the voice of Kansas.  No one else could sing like him.

You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #116 on: February 06, 2015, 06:35:58 AM »
...and lack of sleep makes Hef forget to post the next album.   :facepalm:   :loser:

I'll get it posted either this evening or tomorrow morning.  Sorry, guys.
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Offline Podaar

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #117 on: February 06, 2015, 06:48:28 AM »
I've actually enjoyed the Saturday morning updates. Gives me a chance to wake up naturally, get some coffee, put on the album and collect my thoughts.

So, 'no worries' here.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #118 on: February 06, 2015, 10:41:12 AM »
I've actually enjoyed the Saturday morning updates. Gives me a chance to wake up naturally, get some coffee, put on the album and collect my thoughts.

So, 'no worries' here.
:tup
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #119 on: February 06, 2015, 11:57:19 PM »
I'm glad you didn't move on the POKR just yet.  Leftoverture is one of the quintessential prog releases of the 70s and easily my favorite Kansas CD.  Kansas were one of the first prog bands I got into after discovering the prog genre through Images and Words. I obviously only knew Carry on Wayward Son up until that point and was elated to discover even better songs on Leftoverture: The Wall and Magnum Opus come to mind.

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #120 on: February 07, 2015, 03:36:29 AM »
Wasn't familiar with Magnum Opus until this thread.  Wow, what a tune!!

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fourth album: LEFTOVERTURE (1976) p. 3
« Reply #121 on: February 07, 2015, 04:22:01 AM »
POINT OF KNOW RETURN (1977)



"It's a strange situation, there's no cause for alarm; all these hot licks and rhetoric surely do you no harm."

1.   Point of Know Return (Ehart, Steinhardt, Walsh)            3:13
2.   Paradox (Livren, Walsh)                                     3:50
3.   The Spider (Walsh)                                             2:05
4.   Portrait (He Knew) (Livgren, Walsh)                               4:38
5.   Closet Chronicles (Livgren, Walsh)                               6:31
6.   Lightning’s Hand (Livgren, Walsh)                               4:24
7.   Dust in the Wind (Livgren)                                  3:28
8.   Sparks of the Tempest (Livgren, Walsh)                       4:18
9.   Nobody’s Home (Livgren, Walsh)                               4:40
10.   Hopelessly Human (Livgren)                                  7:17

Now that the band had finally reached their goals of success in the music industry, they were under immense pressure to match that success with their next recording – so much so that Walsh briefly left the band.  “It was me trying to take control things and make it all work, and other people questioning my decisions.  I made a lot of enemies, and they were all my friends before the album started.  I was a little bit of a prima donna.  I quite the band for about three days, and then I just said, ‘What the hell is going on?  I don’t know if I even wanna go out by myself.’”

The product of all this pressure was Point of Know Return, which was released in September, 1977.  This album featured much that was familiar from Kansas, although featuring some different emphases (such as heavier drums and guitars).  The album has 10 songs, the most of any Kansas album to date. 

The title track was the album’s first single, rising to # 28 (January 1978).  It is a textbook example of Kansas’s knack of condensing prog rock sensibilities into pop-length songs, rich with hooks and melodies as well as interesting structure and musicianship.

“Paradox” is a great track, nice instrumental hooks and a ton of fun.  It feels longer than its 3:50 run time.  They played this one live quite a bit.

“The Spider” is a rare instrumental track from the band, short but sweet, featuring fantastic keyboard work and interweaving instrumental flourishes.

“Portrait (He Knew)” is an interesting song, and has gone on to become a Kansas classic.  The lyrical inspiration was Albert Einstein.  “I was always fascinated by Einstein and the fact that he went so far with mathematics and physics, that he actually crossed the line into metaphysics and philosophy,” said Kerry Livgren.  “He was actually getting at the fabric of the universe, and I thought, ‘What an amazing man!’ I was so fascinated with the guy, one day I wrote a song about him.  The interesting thing about ‘Portrait’ is that nobody seemed to catch on who it was about.”  It was eventually released as the album’s third single on June 10, 1978, reaching # 64 the following month.

“Closet Chronicles” was another lyric with a biographical background, this time drawing inspiration from Howard Hughes.  It’s one of my favorites from this album, truly a standout track.

“Lightning’s Hand” is a strange one for me.  The music is, in parts, really cool, but the lyrics and vocal delivery are really cheesy for me.  It’s hard for me to take this one seriously.

From the perspective of commercial, critical, and cultural impact, the album’s seventh track is far and away the standout.  “Dust in the Wind” began as nothing more than a fingerpicking exercise by Livgren.  His wife urged him to turn it into a song, which he did by adding lyrics inspired by Native American poetry.  “I thought it was so out of character for Kansas,” said Livgren.  “But the other guys wanted to do it because they thought it was different and it had a good melody.  I thought the song was somewhat bleak and depressing, which it really is in the philosophy behind it, but that was what I felt at the time.  And obviously, it’s something a lot of people identified with.”  Phil Ehart said “Kansas had never done an all-acoustic song.  That was a real risk for us.  It was an all-acoustic song that was kind of depressing.  ‘All we are is dust in the wind’ – hey, there’s a good thought to start the morning with.”  The song was the second single from the album, released on January 18, 1978.  It became Kansas’s highest charting single ever, rising to # 6 in March 1978, and became their only Gold single on July 18, 1978.  The success of the single drove the sales of the album, and the popularity of the band went through the roof.

“Sparks of the Tempest” is a perfect companion piece to “Lightning’s Hand.”  I dislike it for similar reasons.  Feel free to enjoy it, but I really don’t.

“Nobody’s Home” is another track that kind of falls flat for me.  I can’t really pinpoint anything wrong with it per se, but it just doesn’t DO IT for me.

“Hopelessly Human” is the longest song on the album (although not that long by Kansas standards).  The lyrics are the standout on this song IMHO; the music is interesting, and well-composed, but for me they are just there to prop up the lyrics and give them a platform.  A great song for reasons somewhat different than many Kansas compositions.

Peter Lloyd’s cover art has become iconic, and is easily my favorite album art from Kansas.  It was inspired by ancient maps where monsters guarded the edge of the flat earth, showing a ship going over the edge.

Point of Know Return was certified Gold on October 11, 1977, and Platinum on November 20, 1977.  It peaked at # 4 in January 1978, where it remained for 6 weeks, part of a 49-week run on the charts.  It would eventually be certified Quadruple Platinum.  The 2002 Remaster included two bonus tracks: a live version of “Sparks of the Tempest” (woo-hoo!) and a remix of “Portrait (He Knew).”

As far as commercial success, the band was now at their zenith.  Musically, for me this one was a slight step down from Leftoverture.  The first three albums were great in their own way, and Leftoverture showed them coalescing their prog tendencies with pop songwriting in a perfect combination.  I think that is what they were still going for here, but the lightning in a bottle they had with Leftoverture is not as consistent here.  This lack is the beginning of a shift in their career.
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Offline King Postwhore

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I cannot spin this album enough.  With great pressure comes great albums.
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Offline KevShmev

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First off, I will say that this is one of my favorite album covers ever.  Just love how visually striking it is.

As for the tunes, it's not quite as awesome as Leftoverture, thanks to the presence of a couple of afterthoughts (Sparks of the Tempest and Lightning's Hand), and Hopelessly Human manages to be extremely proggy and good musically, while failing to really having a vocal hook, but Closet Chronicles is a top 5 Kansas tune, the title track and Dust in the Wind are phenomenal classics, and how can you not love The Spider/Portrait back-to-back?  I like Nobody's Home quite a bit as well.  Overall, a pretty great record. You can't expect to do an album as awesome Leftoverture again, but this is a most worthy successor.  :tup :tup

Offline Jaq

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You really don't want to say that it's all downhill from here for a band in 1977, but it kind of is. There are some great songs on the next two albums, some decent ones after Walsh leaves, I think the two with Steve Morse are good to great but they're not really Kansas as we know them here, and after that...well, Somewhere to Nowhere is bloody brilliant, but it came after the band joined the cavalcade of state fair classic rock bands. So yeah, you pretty much have to say that it's all downhill from here, the last true great album of the classic Kansas era, and even it's a step down from their first four. That being said Point of Know Return would be the high point of most discographies, and it has the other iconic Kansas song in Dust In The Wind. Kansas, like a lot of prog rock bands in the 70s, had trouble figuring out how to evolve and survive with the times after this, and interesting, if there's a better blueprint for a band making accessible prog rock, it's this one.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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You really don't want to say that it's all downhill from here for a band in 1977, but it kind of is. There are some great songs on the next two albums, some decent ones after Walsh leaves, I think the two with Steve Morse are good to great but they're not really Kansas as we know them here, and after that...well, Somewhere to Nowhere is bloody brilliant, but it came after the band joined the cavalcade of state fair classic rock bands. So yeah, you pretty much have to say that it's all downhill from here, the last true great album of the classic Kansas era, and even it's a step down from their first four.
OK guys, you heard it here.  No reason to carry on, thread's over.

lol
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Offline Podaar

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fifth album: POINT OF KNOW RETURN (1977)
« Reply #126 on: February 07, 2015, 08:01:50 AM »
Great album here and like other's have said the album cover is awesome and instantly invokes good memories.

The first five songs are terrific and really show Kansas' ability to cram prog sensibilities into pop length songs...and then it kinda goes off the rails with "Lightning's Hand". I know Robby was supposed to be the voice of their tough side but I don't think this song works well at all. I like "Dust In the Wind" but due to over play I'm not sure I'd ever seek it out.

I may be crazy but I really like "Sparks of the Tempest". The bouncy, funky guitar-based verses are pretty cool and I think the heavy bridge and guitar solo is an awesome musical moment. Also, Robby's voice works better here. I dig the heavy outro.

I'm not a big fan of "Nobody's Home". It's alright but it kinda has a High-school Musical vibe that I'm not really into.

Love, love, "Hopelessly Human". A terrific way to end the album and I wish we would have gotten more of this type of music earlier in the album.

Yeah, certainly not as good as Leftoverature (although it has it's moments; "The Spider" anyone?). Of the first five we've done so far, this album is about 4th for me, but that's not a bad thing considering my comment earlier in this thread about how awesome I think Kansas' first five are!

OK guys, you heard it here.  No reason to carry on, thread's over.

lol

Do you think Jaq is trying to tell us that he's not going to join in on the rest of the thread?  :lol

[edit] Thanks, Orbert! [/edit]
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 10:17:02 AM by Podaar »
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Offline Orbert

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Psst... Fifth album.


I always have mixed feeling about this album.  It's great, of course.  Following their breakthrough Leftoverture, the temptation was to stick more or less to the "formula" and crank out another masterpiece.  And while there isn't really a formula, and this album is another masterpiece, there's also no question that stylistically it's very similar to Leftoverture.  These two albums are the most similar of any two Kansas albums thus far.

So part of me wants to dismiss it as "more of the same" but I can't because it's still great stuff.  When I think about songs like "Sparks of the Tempest" and "Lightning's Hand" I remember them as lesser songs, but when I'm playing them, I rock out to them.  Lyrics aside, both of those songs really kick ass.

Kansas had broken through with "Carry On Wayward Son" but this was before video, so as far as most people knew, Kansas was just another rock band, albeit a good one.  So when "Dust in the Wind" came out, with that awesome cello/violin duet in the break, people took notice.  Whoa, an acoustic side, and strings!

I remember seeing them on some TV show doing "Dust in the Wind" and was absolutely blown away to learn that it was not a cello and violin duet.  The first part is synth.  Yeah, we know this now, but back then, string synthesizers just weren't that good.  Of course, it wasn't a string synth, it was a regular analog synth in the capable hands of Kerry Livgren.  So that was mindblower for me.

I worked in a 24-hour Greek diner on Michigan Avenue for a while, and we had an actual jukebox out in the dining room, the kind loaded up with 45's.  I used to love playing obscure stuff, mostly so I could hear it, but the fact that it annoyed the waitresses was a plus.  I think "Paradox" was the B-side of "Dust in the Wind", and I remember playing it one time.  The waitress Liz came back to the kitchen and asked me "What in the hell is this?!"  Not in a good way.  She thought it was crap.  Ha ha, mission accomplished.  Actually no.  If I'd made a prog convert, that would've been mission accomplished.

Offline King Postwhore

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I miss the Papa Gino's tables that had their mini juxebox's at the table.  Where you could pick a Kansas, Toto, or Rush song.  Good music was popular in the 70's.
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Offline KevShmev

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True that.

Sparks of the Tempest and Lightning's Hand fall under the same bland category for me that something like People of the South Wind does.  None of those songs are bad, just bland as hell.

Even though I have heard it countless times over the years, Dust in the Wind is never not awesome when I hear it.

Offline Jaq

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OK guys, you heard it here.  No reason to carry on, thread's over.

lol

Do you think Jaq is trying to tell us that he's not going to join in on the rest of the thread?  :lol



Nah, while I may have seemed dismissive of the Steve Morse albums, I actually enjoyed them for what they were, and since one of my favorite Kansas songs period is Going Through The Motions (which given the source album is HILARIOUS) I'll have comments to come.  :lol
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I love the chorus of Sparks of the Tempest, and the heavy guitar part at the end always gets me pumped up. I wouldn't pick on the lyrics either, for me, it was never a strong point of Kansas anyway, they had their fair share of cringeworthy lines throughout their albums (starting off with the Death of Mother Nature Suite, which is just childishly preachy and silly - not the mention how contradictory the delivery and the meaning are at "Now she's gonna die, yeah, yeah, YEAH!" - on par with "Everyone survived, ROAAARRR!").


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Offline hefdaddy42

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I love the chorus of Sparks of the Tempest, and the heavy guitar part at the end always gets me pumped up. I wouldn't pick on the lyrics either, for me, it was never a strong point of Kansas anyway, they had their fair share of cringeworthy lines throughout their albums (starting off with the Death of Mother Nature Suite, which is just childishly preachy and silly - not the mention how contradictory the delivery and the meaning are at "Now she's gonna die, yeah, yeah, YEAH!" - on par with "Everyone survived, ROAAARRR!").
Nah, that line from DOMNS is metal as hell.

I actually think a lot of Kansas's lyrics are pretty good, even on songs that I don't like very much.  But these are just especially silly.



Good to hear you are still with us, Jaq.  :lol
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Offline Orbert

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Hef, are you gonna correct the thread title?

Offline hefdaddy42

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Hef, are you gonna correct the thread title?
Got it, thanks.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fifth album: POINT OF KNOW RETURN (1977) p. 4
« Reply #135 on: February 09, 2015, 08:16:33 AM »
Thank you.  I now feel that I can be a bit more forthcoming with my comments.

So this is where Kansas started to lose me.  Despite putting out another great album, which I always enjoy once I make the decision to play it, it has the feel of "more of the same" of Leftoverture.  More of the same, when that "same" is great, is still great.  But it felt like little new ground was being broken here, despite the presence of a genuine instrumental track, and an (almost) entirely acoustic track, two firsts for them.

The formula of condensing prog down into pop-sized songs is in full force here, with generally good results, but if anything, they've taken it a bit too far.  "Closet Chronicles" is the closest thing we get to an epic, but in terms of structure, it's really just a song with a slightly longer break.  Same with "Hopelessly Human".  A great break, some stretching out, but what's missing is a true deviation into other territory.  A section in a different key or time signature, a contrasting section with vocals presenting another point of view, something like that.  They used to do it all the time, now it seems like they left that behind them.  Ten songs, the most yet on a Kansas album and not coincidentally the shortest average track length.  For the first time, most of the songs seemed more like pop songs with a little bit of chops, rather than what we had before, which was a prog band clearly trying to contain themselves within pop songs (and often not even bothering and just going full prog).  There's no "Journey from Mariabronn" or "Song for America" here.

Bands start off lean and hungry.  They have something to prove, they have the fire of youth and all their years of paying their dues to channel into the first album(s).  Kansas had now proven themselves; they'd broken through and made the big time.  And I'm not saying that the change in their sound was intentional, that they literally made the decision to focus on pop songs in order to keep spawning hits and selling out stadiums.  It's never that simple.  But something clearly changed in their approach to songwriting and making albums.  Before, we clearly had a prog band including a few songs they'd hoped were pop enough to make the Top 40, or at least the Top 100.  Here, we have a very good pop album with hints of a great band behind it.

As much as I enjoy this album, I'll never shake the feeling that they weren't really pushing themselves anymore.  The instrumental is great, but it almost feels like they're throwing us a bone, doing an instrumental just because that would be different and cool.  The rest of the album is tight, solid.  And somehow, it both satisfies and disappoints.

Offline Beowulf

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fifth album: POINT OF KNOW RETURN (1977) p. 4
« Reply #136 on: February 09, 2015, 08:56:33 AM »
Am I the only one who still loves "Lightning's Hand"?  I love this song.  The second bridge is just amazing to me. 

Overall, this is the best Kansas album, IMO.  Solid. 
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fifth album: POINT OF KNOW RETURN (1977) p. 4
« Reply #137 on: February 09, 2015, 09:09:07 AM »
Am I the only one who still loves "Lightning's Hand"? 
Maybe.  I'm glad that someone does.

I agree with everything you said, Orbert.  It's really good, but doesn't compare to Leftoverture, or really to the first three albums, either.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fifth album: POINT OF KNOW RETURN (1977) p. 4
« Reply #138 on: February 09, 2015, 04:44:45 PM »
Interesting take, Orbert.  I love this record, but I totally see where you are coming from.  However, I've always thought of The Spider as being Portrait's into rather than a stand alone "throwing the prog fans a bone" instrumental.

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Kansas Discography Thread - Fifth album: POINT OF KNOW RETURN (1977) p. 4
« Reply #139 on: February 09, 2015, 04:53:02 PM »
Yeah, it's kinda both.  I always play the two together (I spliced the mp3's together on my iPod so that they'll be together even if I shuffle), but it's also pretty clear that they're separate compositions.  Musically, there's nothing really connecting them.