Author Topic: Yit Say Jammer's incredibly fanboyish and unnecessarily detailed TOP 50 thread  (Read 7435 times)

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Offline Yit Say Jammer

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Hello fellow DT fans. Welcome to my top fifty; one I hope will be the subject of much discussion and controversy. Before I begin the countdown of my fifty favourite songs by Dream Theater and some honourable mentions, I thought I would properly introduce myself.

My name should be Liquid Shadows but when I put the request in, I put the wrong email address so I had to pick something else. This was my second choice and looking back, I regret it completely. What a pathetic attempt at trying to be clever and funny. Anyway, call me YSJ for short or whatever the hell you feel like. I've been lurking on these forums without having the guts to sign up for about a month or so now. Well not guts, more just can't be bothered actually doing it.

Now here's a few things you should know about me:

Perhaps most importantly as this affects the actual forum and indeed this thread, I am from Australia. This means that a) I'm not from the same place as probably a vast majority of the forum and b) my updates will most likely be at times inconvenient to a majority of the forum. What this means is instead of doing one update a day, I will probably do one every second or third day. But every update will be a big one. Because I cannot shut up when it comes to things I am passionate about. So they will be wordy, controversial and at times downright indulgent!

I also have to admit that I have only been a Dream Theater fan for officially twelve months or a little more actually. The full story I won't bore you with but it all started about five or six years ago when while watching a Youtube video of a guy playing Kaizo Mario (google it if you don't know what it is) with music attached to it, I came across a song called "Afterlife" by a band called Dream Theater. I loved the song so much, I rewatched the video about three or four times just to hear that song again.

It was that moment I made a decision to check out this Dream Theater band once and for all.  I'm not sure what happened after that but I never got around to checking them out until I randomly decided to check them out last year. Nobody else I know is into this band and I just basically discovered it by myself. I think it was through Mike Portnoy as I had recently gotten into Avenged Sevenfold and after a little bit of Wikipedia stalking I came across this Dream Theater band I had intended to check out all those years ago. I decided to put my iTunes voucher to good use and purchase a few albums, namely Images in Words, Octavarium and Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.

It was love at first listen. From the opening notes of "Pull Me Under" I knew I was going to love this band. I've always been a big fan of progressive rock and of metal, so combining the two was always going to be a winning combination for me. There are basically three things I love about Dream Theater and these are the reasons this previously unheard of band now sits at my number two band (only Muse is in front of them and that's only because out of all the bands I've ever seen live, they put on the best shows). I believe when I finally do see Dream Theater live they will surpass Muse as from what I've watched on DVD/Youtube/whatever I can get my hands on, their live shows are epic and amazing!

Anyway, the three things are: one; the wankery. Oh such wankery! I've always loved me a killer guitar solo or a drum fill or a sexy bassline or even some vocalisation that makes those that think that the voice is not an instrument shut their mouth. Dream Theater not only contains plenty of these moments; they almost seem to be completely made up of this. For me, this makes Dream Theater unique. Were it not for this technical proficiency (perhaps a more polite term than wankery) we would not have so many epic and amazing songs.

Two; the song lengths. I've always been a lover of long songs too and DT are full of them. Most of their discography features songs over 8 minutes long. In fact, 6 minutes is a short song for them. When I see something by them at only 5 or 6 minutes, I think to myself "That's not enough time to be
entertaining. What can they possibly achieve in that time?" It is not easy to have a long song where you maintain the interest of the listener but they pull it off - consistently. It's the quintessential ingredient in progressive music is having lengthy songs that captivate the listener. Dream Theater have it in spades.

Three; Perhaps the most important thing. The music is to die for. As well as being amazing at showing off, when they just play riffs or basslines or a steady rhythmic beat, it sounds incredible. There are few songs in the DT catalogue I dislike. I can count them on one hand. I haven't heard all the B-sides for instance and I fully intend to when I get the time (and money to download them since Australia isn't the best place to buy things like that - music is ridiculously expensive here!)

These three things caused me to fall in love with this band like no band I have ever loved before. (I warned you in the tracker thread I'd be a fan boy) I've always been proud to like bands that not many other people I know like which makes me feel like these are my personal bands and they become that much more special to me. I've been listening to them for over a year and still haven't gotten sick of them. There are few bands that can claim this sort of longevity.

So I think I've justified enough why even though I've only been a fan since just after Dream Theater came out, I am qualified to post my own top fifty songs. Trust me, when you read the posts, you will realise just how much effort I've put into it! Put it this way, if you like threads that have the
format:

"SONG: I love this song. It is awesome. The solo by JP is just to die for, probably one of his best." Etcetera, etcetera. You will hate this thread.

If however, you like long winded explanations and plentiful examples of why this song is better than this song and almost a dissection of the track from start to finish, well, strap in and enjoy the ride!

In the next few days, I will post my first submissions of the songs that missed out - my honourable mentions.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 09:12:57 PM by Yit Say Jammer »

Offline JiM-Xtreme

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You definitely picked a good three albums to start you off  :big grin:

Welcomes  :)

Offline bl5150

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Welcome to a fellow Aussie............"cos I'm a singer toooooooo and I'm a jammer"  ;D     Anyone who gets that qualifies as a real Aussie  ;D

I'll try and keep up with your tl:dr list  ;D
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

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Offline fischermasamune

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I started my DTF life with a Top 50 post like you. It's been only three months but I say it anyway: welcome.

I will follow your list.

BTW: Voice isn't an instrument. If it was, all DT songs would be instrumental.

Offline ori.elias5

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I enjoyed reading your introduction- no doubt you got me inrigued... well done!

Offline Yit Say Jammer

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I started my DTF life with a Top 50 post like you. It's been only three months but I say it anyway: welcome.

I will follow your list.

BTW: Voice isn't an instrument. If it was, all DT songs would be instrumental.

I remember your post too. It was one of the first topics of the top fifty I read and I remember thinking if I ever signed up my first post would be a top fifty thread too!

Regarding your comment about voice not being an instrument, I respectfully disagree. a voice needs to be tuned and trained well maintained. It is not all about singing alone. There are plenty of other factors which come into it. Namely, pitch, tone, enunciation, volume, as well as vocal techniques. Vocalisation requires plenty of work. A good example is Mike Patton of Faith No More. The man can scream, sing, and make a variety of noises. He probably has one if the most impressive voices in rock.

Anyway, just wanted to give my two cents.

Also due to the combination of having only an iPhone for Internet access, being blocked from this site at work and no desktop at home, I'm submitting this by emailing the document from work to my phone then copying and pasting it here. This results in formatting errors which i am trying to fix as I go. I apologise for this and will endeavour to have future posts in better format.

stay tuned, should have the hon mentions up by Friday at the latest.

Offline Yit Say Jammer

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Well here we go. Time to get this countdown happening.

Here's how I did this:

First I rated every song out of ten. Only two songs scored less than five. Spoiler alert it was "Regression" and "Through My Words".

Then I split all the songs by their group rating them from best to worst in their groups to come up with a definitive 103. Only their album tracks and one other release made the cut. I haven't heard any other songs by them enough times to warrant scoring.

Finally I tweaked and shuffled songs around until I was happy with the order. I created a playlist of every song in reverse order. If I came across a song that didn't belong after or before another one I shuffled the order again.

Eventually I was left with the final list. I think I'm pretty happy with the final list. There were so many songs that missed out that I wanted to include but it was just too hard to include them all.

Another quick thing - I didn't  join any tracks together with two exceptions. I'm sure it's pretty obvious which two I'm talking about but yer, that's how il doing it.

Here's how the release will go.

From 50-26 I will count in groups of five.  (5 updates)

From 25-14 I will count groups of four (3 updates)

From 13-8 I will count on groups of three (2)

From 7 to 4 I will count in groups of two (2)

The top three will all have their own post. (3)

Hopefully the whole thing should take no longer than the end of the month.

First though, it's time for the honourable mentions - those unlucky songs that only just missed the cut.  There will be two groups of five here.

Honourable mentions

Number 60 - The Enemy Inside - Dream Theater

"I'm a burden and a travesty.
I'm a prisoner of regret."


Why I like it - Just a solid rocker. A dead set balls to the wall track that has incredible energy and introduces the album well (as much as a second track can introduce an album. In any case FAS is more of a prelude to the album. I love the intro. It's heavy and fierce and instantly you can see Mangini is unleashed on this album. His drumming is just filled with powah!!! Petrucci is, as always amazing and Myung is actually audible. The opening riff after the intro is addictive and the strings that accompany them are beautiful. Everyone is on their a game in this track and it's thoroughly enjoyable. The wah wah effect of Petrucci's guitar is really good. There's not really a weak moment in this track it's just solid all the way thorough. LaBrie does a great job on this track too. Previous attempts at this style didn't sound so impressive but this one he nailed. I can relate to the lyrics a lot. Especially the above quote. So that's another plus.

Why it missed out - Like a lot of tracks on this list, I couldn't justify kicking anything out to make way for this. Also as much I love their metallic side, this song seems very generic and doesn't really have too many progressive elements to it. More a collection of great riffs and melodies.

Best part - at 3:20, the riff that plays is to die for. In a song full of great chugging riffs, this one is my favourite.

Number 59 - The Killing Hand - When Dream and Day Unite

"As I get closer, was it really worth what I had learned?"


Why I like it - Their first really epic track at almost nine minutes length and with plenty of parts. I enjoy the several different melodies and motifs present here and it is punctuated by some solid guitar work by Petrucci. His two solos in this song are pretty impressive. Kevin Moore is also unreal with the keyboards. The intro flounders a little bit but it picks up shortly later and only lulls a couple of times. The story while hard to follow is captivating and interesting enough to hold my attention. 

Why it missed out - put simply, this is Dominici's weakest performance on the album. Especially the last bit of Exodus. He really does fail to hit that note. I can't put the marks up because of James LaBrie's performance in LATM. The studio version is really poor compared to that.  Also like so many tracks in WDADU, the production is very amateur.

Best part - the guitar solo in the Thorns section. Heavy and brutal. Love it.

Number 58 - Caught in a web - Awake

"Cause even when I danced with life,
No one was there to share."


Why I like it - the intro is just so great here. It just draws you in and keeps you listening. Mike Portnoy's drumming is amazing here. As is that keyboard/guitar unison. This sets the tone for the album I feel. You know it will be heavy yet laced with emotion. After the somewhat funky and jazzy 6:00, this draws you into the album. Anyway, like many other tracks on this album, LaBrie shines on this track. The second verse is amazing and blows me away every time. The instrumental section is a highlight too.

Why it missed out - it just seems to be there without blowing you away. It's probably one of the least complex pieces of the album with a very simple verse-chorus structure. This sing took a while to grow on me, it always was one if my least favourites in Awake but that's more of a mark on how good the album was.

Best part - in an album of excellent vocalisation, the second verse (and the repeated part at the end of the song) is ace!

Number 57 - Lie - Awake

"So you tell me "trust me", I can trust you,
as far as I can throw you,"


Why I like this song - I don't get the hate for this song. I know in comparison to a lot of other things in the album it's not as good but this still stands alone pretty well by its own. Everyone does a good job on this track but what I really love is the guitar outro. People rave about TBoT having the best outro but I think this one is really underrated. Not much more to be said here other than that. I've always preferred the second half of Awake to the first.

Why it missed out - It really is a great song but there are some parts that fall a little flat. As it turned out, plenty of other songs better than this on the album and in the entire discography.

Best part - already mentioned but specifically the 6:12 mark of the outro solo by Petrucci. Just a hard and heavy end to a terrific track. Love it.

Number 56 - As I Am - Train of Thought

“I’ve been trying to justify you,
In the end, I will – just – defy you”


Why I like this song - I love me some metal. In fact, one of the reasons I wanted to check out Dream Theater was because it combined two of my favourite genres, progressive and metal. Actually, this album is probably one of the least progressive albums (apart from perhaps ITNOG) but boy is it metal?! Anyway, the beginning of this doesn’t even have a signature Dream Theater sound and feels like Metallica or Megadeth or something similar. Not that there’s anything wrong with that! There are sone terrific parts about this song in particular, filled with killer riffs and amazing drumming. Turn the bass up on this bitch and rock out!!!

Why it missed out - After his accident it took LaBrie's voice a while to recover. This song is very simple vocally. In fact a lot of this album is. But the lyrical content is quite interesting. Still, for a hard and heavy song, it just misses something.

Best part - the Ruddess solo followed by the Petrucci solo undertones by Mike's amazing drumming.





« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 10:46:20 PM by Yit Say Jammer »

Offline bosk1

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I give your 56-60 list a 9/10.  Good choices.  Well written.  I just had to take away a point because "learnt" is not a word nor a Dream Theater lyric.  But good song choices.  A couple of those make my top 50.  Given what you have said about your musical tastes, I am curious to see how your top 50 plays out.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 04:56:22 PM by bosk1 »
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Offline Podaar

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I'll be following this list.

I just can't disagree with anything said so far. Bring on the controversial!
"Owners of dogs will have noticed that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they will think you are God. Whereas owners of cats are compelled to realize that, if you provide them with food and water and affection, they draw the conclusion that they are God.” — Christopher Hitchens

Offline bl5150

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I give your 56-60 list a 9/10.  Good choices.  Well written.  I just had to take away a point because "learnt" is not a work nor a Dream Theater lyric.  But good song choices.  A couple of those make my top 50.  Given what you have said about your musical tastes, I am curious to see how your top 50 plays out.

"Learnt" is a word , not a "work."  ;D    It is actually considered acceptable (often preferable) English outside of the USA......yes , we are out here.  ;D

Following.
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

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Offline fischermasamune

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Very reasonable list. I like the details, especially the 'Best part' - good to remember a specific motif.

Offline Yit Say Jammer

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Number 55 - Never Enough - Octavarium

"And then you say how dare I didn't write you back,
I must be too good for you,
I only think about myself."


Being a huge Muse fan, I have to admit I loved this song right away. The funny thing is, most of Octavarium sounds inspired by Muse (note I wrote inspired not ripped off - there's a huge difference) so to single out one song because of  it is unfair. I love the distortion on the bass (one of my favourite things about Muse) and the backing piano. The arpeggios underneath the pre chorus are also a shout out to Muse and I never noticed it until I read on here, but LaBrie even copies Bellamy's signature deep breathing. The wonderful thing about this song is that they do Muse even better than Muse. Anyway, I'm not going to mention the M word again because six times is enough. Thank The Lord only one other song on the list reminds me of them. Spoiler alert, it's not Prophets Of War.

Why it missed out - because it's not Dream Theater. The signature sound is there but it's too similar to You-Know-Who. But while others would kick the song out of the top eighty because of that, for me it's kicked out of the top 20.

Best part - the killer solo. With more arpeggios. The build up there is immense. Love it.
       
Number 54 -  Overture 1928 - Scenes from a Memory

Why I like this song - there are a few instrumentals that missed out on a place (in fact, yet another spoiler alert, only two on the actual top fifty) but this short and sweet one is a great introduction into the album before the story actually begins. It's also a tremendous lead into strange déjà vu. So much so that I think the two tracks should be together. However I haven't merged any tracks together except for one pretty obvious one. As a standalone, it's weaker but still good enough to sit in the middle.

Why it missed out - only two instrumentals made the list (one just barely) and that's because even though I love the instrumental sections, having six, seven or ten minute instrumentals is a different thing altogether. As standalone tracks it's very difficult for them to hold my interest for very long. As a result there were plenty of other songs that at the end of the day were better than this one.

Best part - the shoutout to metropolis pt 1 which would also become a key part of Home.

Number 53 - The Bigger Picture - Dream Theater

"Better to try and fail,
Than to never try at all,"


Why I like this song - it's got great build up and becomes quite heavy just before the second chorus. LaBrie's best performance of the album comes on this track. It's an enjoyable song and doesn't feel like almost eight minutes. This was one of the last songs to really truly grow on me and it feels like it's clicking now. This is one of those rare songs that is just great to shut up and listen  to.

Why it missed out - As far as power ballads go, this is a great one. But it just can't measure up to other ones they have done. Yes it's epic and one of the better tracks from what was in my opinion an average album (no track in the top forty) however it just doesn't grab me like certain other ones do.

Best part - the second verse when it picks up and leads into the chorus.

Number 52 - The Dark Eternal Night - Systematic Chaos

" Born of the blood of the pharaohs,
The ultimate god of a rotting creation,"


Why I like this song - there's plenty to love. Mike Portnoy's drumming is awesome on this track especially his double bass. The riffs are awesome. The epic middle section containing another ragtime part from Ruddess, numerous moments of brilliance from Petrucci and Myung and some impressive unison parts. Then of course there is that outro riff/solo which just takes the track out beautifully.

Why it missed out - take out the instrumental section and you are left with a fairly ordinary song, albeit with some interesting riffs and drumming. The lyrics are also pretty ordinary, not that I place high importance on good lyrics.

Best part - the drumming from Portnoy's at 6:00 leading into Petrucci's solo. The solo is pretty kick arse but like most of the song, Portnoy's owns it.

Number 51 - This Dying Soul - Train of Thought

"All your sins will only make you strong,
And help you break right through the prison walls."


Why I like this song - such an energetic song. An explosive intro, then a mellow first verse and chorus before it explodes again in the second verse and pretty much doesn't let up for the rest of the song. Unlike most here I actually think the ending unison section is one of the best parts of the song. I mean sure it's wanky as hell and unnecessary to the point of not even making much sense. But it's still really cool. And the perfect way to end the song. Although I have to say that part of the song is called "Release". So it seems to suit the frenetic style of music well.

Why it missed out - it drags on a bit. I'll admit that. Truth is this song was in my top thirty before I reshuffled songs around and discovered there's fifty other songs I like more than this.

Best part - once again, the double bass drumming in the intro is awesome. This and the previous track contain my favourite drumming moments of the entire discography.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 10:50:37 PM by Yit Say Jammer »

Offline ori.elias5

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very interesting list so far... keep on the hard work  :metal

Offline mikemangioy

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Most of these HO are in my actual list, but I get why they're HO for you. Will be following  :metal
Because Mike is better than Mike

Offline fischermasamune

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A bit disappointed that the best spot for IT will be 41th. But okay. For me ToT and ACOS, which are popular, didn't make it to the top 40.

Offline Crow

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your honorable mentions is all like, stuff I put low on my top 50 or put in honorable mentions too

i think i'm gonna like this list

Offline Yit Say Jammer

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A bit disappointed that the best spot for IT will be 41th. But okay. For me ToT and ACOS, which are popular, didn't make it to the top 40.

The next update will likely really disappoint you.

I've made a change to how I do this too.

I will release four songs at a time until the top thirty, then three songs at a time until the top 15, then two until the top five.

It will take a bit longer but easier to digest then the original plan. It's taking some time to get these write ups done.

Controversy starts next update. Will hopefully be up later tonight (Australian time)

Offline Yit Say Jammer

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Ready for some controversy?!

Number 50 - A Nightmare to Remember - Black Clouds and Silver Linings

"Hopelessly drifting,
Bathing in beautiful agony.
I am endlessly falling,
Lost in this wonderful misery."


Why it made the list - this was one of my top five songs.  I'm not even kidding. I loved it. I had it right up there. I thought it was epic as hell. I came on this forum and everything changed. There's an episode of How I Met Your Mother (called Spoiler Alert) where every time they have one of the other characters tell them something about someone they didn't realise, breaking glass is heard to signify something being "spoiled" - representing somebody "shattering" an illusion they had of another character. Well coming on here, this song was "spoiled" for me. I never really cared much about the "Day after Day" part - it neither detracted or added to my feelings on the track. But the roar at the end. Somehow I never noticed it. Now I can't not notice it. And how did I not hear it before. Every listen of this track makes it fall lower and lower and I even considered dumping it from my top fifty. But then the dilemma struck. What would it replace? In the end I'm completely satisfied with what I ended up with. Let's talk about the track. An interesting subject matter. At least it's clear what Petrucci is writing about this time. The drumming is amazing in this track. I love the main theme, all variations of it. LaBrie is okay but not great. His best moment is easily the Beautiful Agony section. Myung is disappointingly quiet. I think of all the albums this is the one I notice him on the least. I hate when I have to actively listen to hear bass. It's a damn important instrument and should be more audible. Apart from that it's long but still enjoyable. 

Why it didn't finish higher - like so many of the longer songs that made the list, it goes on just a bit too long. I think it could have ended after the little instrumental part after "Day after Day". Again I don't have anything against this part just that last bit goes on a while for no apparent reason. Sometimes I think of this track as more A Never-ending Nightmare.

Best part - After the Beautiful Agony interlude there's a little solo before the main theme returns. The drumming here is insanely intense. It's actually just before "Day after Day..."

Number 49 - The Ones Who Help To Set The Sun - When Dream And Day Unite

"There had to be a time,
When I thought that you were watching,
It had to be when my senses lost control,"


Why it made the list - A very strange song. But intriguing and interesting. The almost three minute intro that has nothing to do with the song is awesome. It actually sounds like something I'd hear in a Legend of Zelda game. That's the first thing I thought of. That or Mr. Bungle. It just seemed to be out of place. Then that heavy bassline to kick the track off with yet more brilliant drumming from Mike Portnoy. The music itself is pretty good without blowing me completely away. I can understand how people skip this though. At the start it doesn't give any indication of being as good as it actually sounds like it will be. The sad thing is, these people are missing out on a great track. The guitar solo is solid too while not being mind blowing. Probably deserves to be one of the lower rated tracks bit I've always enjoyed it do it's in the middle.

Why it didn't finish higher - at the end of the day, it's another Dominici venture. Which brings it down. The lyrics are a little bizarre if not downright confusing. It probably could have been higher if the production and personnel were a little better. Also this was perhaps their first foray into strange time signatures but unlike other songs like Metropolis and learning to live, it is not as cohesive and the flow is just not as good.

Best part - Can't go past that atmospheric intro. Just sets the mood for the song. The fact it isn't repeated later makes it even more interesting.

Here's where I break your heart fischermasamune   :-[

Disclaimer: The following track contains much gushing, wanking and complete self indulgence. It is not recommended for persons who suffer from intolerance of over appreciation or those who are turned off by overly positive comments.

Number 48 - Illumination Theory -
Dream Theater

"To really feel the joy in life,
You must suffer through the pain.
When you surrender to the light,
You can face the darkest days."



Why I like love this song - this is just the perfect ending to DT12. It wraps everything up in a thoroughly enjoyable track that just picks up momentum as it goes on. There is so much to love about it. Every member is audible all the way through. A truly pleasurable journey from start to finish.

The Journey of Illumination Theory

I. Paradoxe de la Lumière Noire
 


Spectacular from the start. That orchestral opening. It is an absolutely perfect introduction to the main theme of the song.

II. Live, Die, Kill

Oh My God. The epic drums. Then that killer riff underlined by an equally killer bassline. This is brilliance. I also love the strings underneath the "Kill" verse. And the guitar solo just at the end of this segment closes it off beautifully. It could have ended here but instead they did something amazing.

III. The Embracing Circle

For two minutes I feel nothing but peace. Love or hate this section (it seems to be about 50/50) it has to just make you feel calm and relaxed.

The gorgeous orchestral interlude is just to die for. The return of the theme from the opening segment is so rich and powerful. It's almost a polar opposite of the first half of the segment.

IV. The Pursuit of Truth

That bass! That sexy bass. What a riff. Then the slightly chaotic keyboards leading into that epic Petrucci solo at the 13:14 mark. Then back to the main riff of the first part for a bit more. Just pure :metal

V. Surrender, Trust and Passion

Finishing with some heartfelt lyrics, a beautiful melody, another lovely solo from Petrucci and that final sustained note. And that little gem - the hidden track to finish the album.

Why it don't finish higher - so if all I've done is gush over the song from pretty much start to finish, why on earth does it find itself at number 48?!

The answer lies in four rather large flaws that I've actually neglected to mention this far.

Flaw number one: The track just doesn't flow.

The five parts isolated are terrific but you have almost no flow. It's almost incoherent as TOWHTSTS. To me the epics all have great parts but of them only this track is weaker when you put all the parts together. The rest are stronger. One of the main reasons for the track not flowing is the ambient section. It's great in isolation but it stalls the momentum of the track. When it comes back later it feels like a different track almost.

Flaw number two: The ending is a little underwhelming.

A controversial opinion here I reckon. I sort of feel ripped off when the song ends. It just doesn't have that epic feel to it. Which is a shame. The rest of the track is great but the last part is just a let down. It makes sense at the end but it feels like they just slowed it down to have an epic finish. But it's very underwhelming compared to other songs.

Flaw number three: LaBrie's vocals are yet again strained

It's weird. On ADTOE, he doesn't go for as many of those higher notes but he doesn't sound like he's struggling either. On this album he does. A lot. And in this song he does too. Its a massive reason this dong finished so low. It's not easy to reach some of those notes and in all honesty he doesn't really nail them. It's not like Dominici trying to sing Awake. But it isn't very great. I love LaBrie. I really do. But he's not ever going to sound like he did pre-vocal chord accident. That becomes abundantly clear when he attempts it.
Ouch. What a nasty slap. I feel like a bitch.

Flaw number four: Hidden track?! WTF?!!

It's not that I'm against hidden tracks. I just think they are unnecessary in this technological age. This hidden track while beautiful should not be part of the song. After the ending, there is a minute of silence then this part for two minutes before fading out.
It has nothing to do with the track. Yet it is included as part of the track and part of the final part. Hmmm

These flaws may be incorrect or downright picky but for me they are a huge reason why this song funds itself so low. And yet, I fucking love it!!!

Best part - hard to single one out but gotta be that bass to start if The Pursuit of Truth. Dead. Sexy.



I apologise for that one. I know it was long. I look forward to the controversy this post and particularly that entry raises. I'm not even close to done yet either.   :biggrin:

Number 47 - Disappear - Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

"I gave you my hand,
I said it's okay, letting go time to leave here,"

Why this made the list - Arguably Dream Theater's most haunting song. This has a beautiful melody and truly harrowing lyrics. I think it is possibly LaBrie's best lyrics. And boy do they touch me. Death is a truly fascinating and at the same time frightening prospect. Ceasing to exist. What is it truly like? Sorry for the existential questions but it's always at the forefront of my mind meaning this song touches me deeply. I used to be frightened of dying. I used to think death was the end. Now it's different. I think that there has to be some higher plane of - you know what? I've digressed a fair bit. Let's talk about the music. The soft guitar and the piano on the verses is beautiful. (I love the verses) but the background in the chorus is also fantastic. The last verse is filled with so much emotion and passion. It's impossible to not have some sort of emotional reaction to this song.

Why it finished higher than Illumination Theory - What this song has that Illumination Theory doesn't have is heart. Lots and lots of Heart. They both have beauty. They both have great melodies, motifs and themes musically but when it comes to the lyrical content, this has more feeling and emotion to it. It's a lot more relatable.

Why it didn't finish higher - it's depressing. I mean I love me sone depression and melancholy but this song is just laced with it. There's plenty of more hopeful and positive songs out there. I love it for making me feel but I hate it for the sane reason. Also and perhaps more pertinently, its not very in your face and bombastic. It's also not a ballad.  And finally it's not progressive. How it fits on the discography is beyond me but somehow despite all this, they make it work.

Best part - a tie between LaBrie's plaintive singing in the final verse and the distorted guitar underneath the second chorus. I know I cheated. Sue me.

Offline mikemangioy

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Ugh, these all are pretty high in my list! Great songs though.
Because Mike is better than Mike

Offline fischermasamune

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I can see the reasons you put IT where you did. I think the vocals are good and that the flow is consistent, but I understand your point of view.

Don't like TOWHTSTS much. Others are okay.

Still following!

Offline lithium112

  • Posts: 521
Good list so far. Loving the explanations for everything. I'm agreeing with about 50% of what you're saying so far lol. The main differences would be: IT and Disappear are way higher on my list, and the only song from WDADU I'd put in the top 50 is a live version of A Fortune in Lies.

Keep at it! Can't wait to see the Top 10.

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Same deal happened with me and ANTR. Utterly adored it at first but now it's fallen so low in my rankings. It still has its moments though: the Beautiful Agony section is all around great, some of the riffs are pretty nice, and the main theme is pretty great, but that's about it for me.

IT is quite a ways too low. :biggrin:

Anyways, great write-ups! Keep it up. :tup

Offline Grizz

  • Posts: 1666
I much prefer A Nightmare to Remember to Illumination Theory.
"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

Offline Yit Say Jammer

  • Posts: 36
Okay, here we go again. Not as controversial as last update but there's one song (at least) here I'm sure will illicit some sort of WTF response!

Number 46 – Hell’s Kitchen – Falling Into Infinity


Why it made the list - the second highest placed instrumental in my list, this initially has a really delicate melody that builds and builds to become the monster it is. The smartest thing they did with FII was take the best part of Burning My Soul (which is still a mental song) and turn it into it's own track. It connects BMS and LITS perfectly in my opinion.

Why it didn't finish higher - it like most instrumentals gets repetitive but I can put up with it for the way it builds up. Really it's just over too soon. Just making the list is a pretty good achievement. Not saying it doesn't deserve to be here - it thoroughly does. But when you see what is above it, well I think there's very little controversy there. Maybe.

Best part - about 3:16 when the outro riff starts. Love the sudden turn in the toooooone of the track. (I don't actually know what that means but I see people writing that all the time here and thought I'd join in)

Number 45 – The Count of Tuscany – Black Clouds and Revelations

"Could this be the end?
Is this the way I die?
Sitting here alone,
No one by my side,"


Why it made the list - another great track. Here's an interesting discussion. How can this not be considered an epic when it is only eight seconds shorter than the actual song of Illumination Theory. I suppose that's another reason to mark IT down but there's no retrospective rating in this. Everything is set in stone. I love the intro here. For me this was Mike Portnoy signing off. Just listen to his drumming at the opening section and leading into the first main riff. It's electrifying! :metal Also the guitar solo by Petrucci is one of many impressive ones in this track. Then at 3:20 when the mood abruptly changes. The tempo picks up and all of a sudden we have another solid rocker in our hands. The strings in the background during the main riff are terrific. There are many progressive elements present in this track and it just continues telling a story with its quirky lyrics (I don't kind them honestly; cheesy as they are. Who doesn't love singing "Mah Brutha!!"?!!) Then after this first quite energetic section we have the cool keyboard solo and the unison section before at 10:16 another really great slow solo from Petrucci. I'm not normally a fan of his slow ones but this one is amazing.
The track slows down here while Rudess plays around with his continuum again before the slow and acoustic reflective verse starts. I love the way it builds up to a magical crescendo with all the whoas before ending with the sounds of the birds.

Why it didn't finish higher - after the first half, it's really hard to get into the track. It's just not as engaging as the first half. I don't mind when a song winds down but at to me this doesn't really reach the heights of the first half. But the ending is great as mentioned with the whoa whoas. Just a little underwhelming. And mellow. Oh and yet again Myung appears to have forgotten to turn his bass on.

Best part - probably the aforementioned tone switch at 3:20.

Number 44 – Another Day – Images and Words

"Better to save the mystery,
Than surrender to the secret"


Why it made the list - now this, THIS is how you do a ballad! A beautiful start, touching lyrics and sax!!!! Gotta love that. It does seem to be quite progressive too despite not being a very long song. Like many other songs in the first two albums he sang on, LaBries performance is just phenomenal. I also love the strings during the er - bridge part I guess - just after the second chorus (if you can call it a chorus but that's a story for another thread). And the sax. Did I mention the sax?!!

Why it finished higher than tcot - it didn't initially. I had this missing my top fifty by quite a way after my initial ratings. Then when listening to my playlist from 103 to 1, this made a massive leap. I realised I enjoyed it's mellow approach while still maintaining Dream Theater's sound. The only song that made the list after initially being left out. I haven't explained why it beats Count though. Well the performance and production of this track is better and there's plenty more emotion than in Count too. That enough? No, well how about sax??? Yeah, thought so.

Why it didn't finish higher - unlike the other DT ballads that finish higher in the list this song doesn't go long enough to captivate me like they do. I love this song and it goes for the perfect amount of time really but really it's a question of preference and it do happens there are many songs I prefer to this one. Also it probably could have done with more sax.

Best part - do I need to say it? Do I really? Well I suppose I need to specify which part – basically when that first sax kicks in. 


Number 43 – Surrender to Reason – Dream Theater

"Pieces of the puzzle falling into place, That with which we struggle through we've learned to embrace." 



Why it made the list - This song could be mistaken for a ballad with it's slightly slower tempo and uplifting and hopeful lyrics. But I think it's too heavy to be a proper ballad. The intro is really in your face. But the mellow acoustic first verse has some amazing chord progressions. When they unplug themselves, these guys make probably some if their best sounding music. I honestly think Petrucci slays on this track. I mean, he slays on most tracks but he annihilates this one! The bassline underneath the solo is amazing too. And Mangini's drumming is brilliant throughout.

Why it didn't finish higher - to be honest there's not really anything this song could have done better. I guess at the end of the day there are just several songs better than it.

Why it's the best song on Dream Theater - every other song has a flaw. False awakening suite aside which is perfect but unfortunately too short. It's more of a prelude than a standalone track. This is the only song that has absolutely no flaws. The rest of them have minor (or major) things that I don’t like about them, hence resulting in being downgraded. From start to finish, this song is pretty epic.

Best part – The bassline just before the solo after the instrumental version of the “Restless Angels” part.

Offline Yit Say Jammer

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I can see the reasons you put IT where you did. I think the vocals are good and that the flow is consistent, but I understand your point of view.

Don't like TOWHTSTS much. Others are okay.

Still following!

Forgot to reply to this.

The flow is for the most part consistent BUT there are a couple of parts where it just enters WTF territory. And yes the vocals are good. but that's it. They should be better than good because he is usually capable of it.

Offline Grizz

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"I raised the baby, I changed the baby's diapers.  Whenever the baby had projectile diarrhea, I was there in the line of fire.  I even got a little in my mouth!  I sacrificed so much for my baby.  Now my baby hates me and thinks Mike Mangini is its real father!"

Offline Yit Say Jammer

  • Posts: 36
Black Clouds and Revelations
:clap:

Well spotted. I thought I got them all.

Fucking Muse

Offline Yit Say Jammer

  • Posts: 36
Sorry about the delay folks. It's my son's 4th birthday today so to celebrate I have a double update. Part two will be up later.

Number 42 - Surrounded - Images and Words
 
"I know it's easier,
To walk away then look it in the eye,"


Why it made the list - beautiful soft piano opening and then the song just takes off and becomes something else! Amazing lyrics as usual from Keith Moore. Love the synths in this track. Like most of I&W this has a real 80's feel to it. Then there's the amazing solo where the pace picks up even more leading into the "Once lost but now I'm found" bit. Probably don't even need to mention this last bit but LaBrie's performance is predictably perfect.

Why it didn't finish higher - I'm sure I'm not the only one here who hovers their finger over the skip button at the intro. It's good but it doesn't let you know how good the song will end up being. I love songs that build up but you have to start with something.

Best part - the guitar solo. Not just the solo though - just the overall pace of the song at this point. Love it.

Number 41 - Lifting Shadows off a Dream – Awake

“Moved by desire and fear,
He takes a few steps away.”

 
Why it made the list - That bassline is awesome. I love me a crunchy groovy bassline and this one is absolutely top notch. The keys in this song are very atmospheric as are the strings. It gives me the impression that I’m trapped in a dark room. Come to think of it, the entire album does that. I don’t think I’ve ever listened to an album that makes me feel a certain way all the way through. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad thing either. More a peaceful room, rather than something foreboding. Although the very start of this track sounds dark but turns into something beautiful. Also, on what is arguably the best vocal album of Dream Theater, LaBrie is absolutely OUTSTANDING in this track! The lyrics are also fantastic – very poetic but being a Myung creation, why would you expect anything else? Petrucci has an amazing solo in this song, leading into that final chorus that sends chills down my spine. There’s really not a weak moment in this track to be honest.

Why it didn’t finish higher - I think this is one of a few that only missed out on a higher place because there are too many others better than it. I know when people see what’s pushed LSOAD out of the top forty, they will be disagreeing with me, but it turns out this is one of the tracks that even though I love it, I just don’t love it as much as some others. Its beautiful, haunting and like most of awake feels dreamy – a touch of irony there. But it lacks something – there’s no punch. It’s too heavy to be a proper ballad and too soft to be a hard rocker. Even LaBrie’s performance isn’t enough to lift it into the top forty.

Best part - “And she listens OOOOOOOOOPENLYYYYYYYYYYYYY. Lifting shadows off a dreaaaaaaam once broken…” Quite possibly the best bit on the album. I guess that remains to be seen.

Number 40 - Peruvian Skies - Falling Into Infinity

"Shame, you're not to blame,
I'm the monster you created,
In your daddy's name,"


Why it made the list - I love the Nirvana inspired opening. Maybe it's not Nirvana-inspired but it always reminds me of that. There is a lot to like about this song. I suppose that could be said for most of what's left. Anyway in particular I love the guitar solo at the midway point when the tempo shift kicks in. Then the drumming in the last part of the solo just before the final chorus. By this point it seems to sound more like Dream Theater.

Why it didn't finish higher - even though the build up is great, the first half of the song is only okay while the second half is awesome. So that downgraded the song as a whole.

Best part - 5:03-6:05 - the drumming here is incredible and helps to lift the heaviness in that last minute.


Number 39 - Outcry - A Dramatic Turn of Events

"We've suffered far too long,
we gather now, growing stronger.
We will not be ignored,
Anymore, any longer,"


Why it made the list - Any list would just about be incomplete without this song. One of the songs that really stuck out to me on my first listen of ADTOE. One word - instrumental. Section. Okay, that's two words. But this five minute period lifts an otherwise average song into the epic category. I mean without being truly defined an epic. Er, anyway, whatever. The music is great. The drumming is very impressive. Especially during the chaotic part at the end of the break. At that point it just builds up to an amazing crescendo.

Why it didn't finish higher - book ending the instrumental section is a pretty ordinary track. The ending leaves a lot to be desired. The opening and the first few verses are good but that's it - good. Not great. It doesn't blow me away in other words.

Best part - just about that whole five minute instrumental part but I really love the little bass licks leading into the rest if the instrumental. It really builds from there.

Offline Rodni Demental

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All very nice choices.  :tup

Offline fischermasamune

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They may be good or bad choices, depending on the next ones!

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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I sometimes forget how much I really like Lifting Shadows, but when I listen to it, it's nothing short of fantastic.

Never the biggest fan of Peruvian Skies. It was always kinda just there to me.

Offline Rodni Demental

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Lifting Shadows and Surrounded I consider similar in that they didn't stand out too much at first, but really grew on me in the context of listening to their respective albums. And Outcry is one the "big 3" from ADTOE. Although I prefer BAI/BITS a bit more. Peruvian Skies was always an instant classic for me from FII right from the get go.

Edit: Sorry was supposed to edit this into my above post... Oh well. xD

Offline Yit Say Jammer

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They may be good or bad choices, depending on the next ones!

Well let's find out then shall we?

Based on these choices I think good. These next four songs are usually quite highly regarded.

Number 38 - Innocence Faded - Awake

"Until the circle breaks, and wisdom lies ahead,
The faithful live Awake, the rest remain misled,"


Why it made the list - in a lot of ways the quintessential Dream Theater song. If you're looking to introduce someone to the band and showcase all that is great about them, this is probably the song to do it. Everyone is on their a game here. Moore's strings and synths here are very helpful to set the mood, Portnoy's playing is outstanding. It seems like a generic song but yet again, his drumming makes it sound more complex. The rhythm and groove established by Myung never lets up and Petrucci's slaying of the ax is mind-blowing. The outro solo is an obvious one but throughout the song it sounds great. The backing vocals in this track (something very underrated in DT) are amongst the best.

Why it didn't....

Ha I'm only kidding.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Anyone who thinks LaBrie is an average singer needs to listen to this track. He owns it. There are so many amazing parts. But the best thing is he nails every note and doesn't strain at all. He takes this track and absolutely beats the shit out of it then goes home and fucks it's mother. I mean, those notes. Consistent continuous high notes. This is one if the hardest songs in the discography to sing. Imagine what this bastard would have been capable of had he not gotten good poisoning. Holy shit.

James LaBrie, I bow down to you. We are not worthy.

Why it didn't finish higher - eh, it's enjoyable enough but until the second verse it doesn't really blow my mind. From then on it's perfect. Probably top five. The energy is terrific. But I don't know. There seems to be something lacking at the start. Not to mention the sudden end. It was all so awesome and then it just cuts out when it was getting really good. I don't know. I think I'm being picky. This song took a while to grow on me too. I remember listening to the Score version and thinking "This song wasn't that good on the album was it," back then I reckon it was bottom three of Awake. Then I listened to it again and realised just how amazing it was. It is ever growing now though.

Best part - "Wearing apathetic displays, sharing flesh like envy in cages,
Condescending, not intending to end,"

If that doesn't leave hairs on the back of your neck standing up you are probably a reptile.

Number 37 - 6:00 - Awake

"But don't count your losses too soon,
Coz you'll only be cutting your throat,
And answer a call while you still hear at all,
Coz nobody will if you won't,"


Why it made the list - to me a fairly divisive song. I love it honestly. From the first time I heard it I loved it. The intro is just terrific. Drums are amazing, guitar is amazing, bass is amazing, keys are amazing. Sorry to write it like that but that's the order it goes. You hear the drums then the guitar then the bass and finally the keys. I love the organ throughout. Incredible. But there's more too. The solo section after "the pain inside coming outside" part. I think this lets you know just how good this album is going to be. Don't mind the samples either by the way.

Why it didn't finish higher - to be honest I don't know. I guess it's just one that I rated below a lot of others. It's so solid and strong throughout with barely a weak moment. So probably just others were better than it for whatever reason. Or more enjoyable.

Best part - can't go past the wah wah solo. It's short but very enjoyable and the previously mentioned breakdown at the "the pain inside..." part is one of the best breakdown sections. The synth underneath that is just gorgeous.

Number 36 - Misunderstood  - Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence

“It challenges the essence of my soul,
And leaves me in a state of disconnection.”


Why it made the list - Well what’s not to love really? First there is the clean, acoustic intro, soft and gentle. Then there’s the build up to the chorus, ever gradual and ever growing, from the slightly heavier second verse until the drums really kick in on the second chorus – the full one with the extra bit about the lion being led to the cage. Also, the bass in the background of that second verse punctuated by that distinctive echoing snare is gorgeous. Suddenly the song takes a vicious turn and becomes chaotic and violent with the absolutely crazy and innovative solo. The music to this point is so calming and gentle, even the chaotic, desolate lyrics don’t resonate so much until this part. For the rest of the track, this becomes a different beast and the chaos doesn’t stop, going all the way through that outro that seems to divide fans. The lyrics are chilling in this – Petrucci can be quite hit and miss with his lyrics but these ones are brilliant. It really feels like the weight of the world is on his shoulders and it is actually quite heartbreaking to believe that he really feels alone. Imagery is a massive part of Petrucci’s lyrics, and this is no different. Of course the line before the final chorus, “…a lion being led to a cage, I turn from surreal to seclusion, from love to disdain…” paints a vivid picture for the listener.

Why it didn’t finish higher - The truth is, I enjoy the outro at first but after about the first minute and a half (just after those crazy arpeggios of Rudess’ fade away) it seems to drag just a bit. It isn’t unnecessary, that’s not my gripe with it but it does become unpleasant to listen to. I do however love the false ending before the bassline comes back at the end with those rhythmic kicks. That outro probably kicks it out of the top ten to be honest.

Best part - The second chorus is just so powerful, as in the second full chorus at the end after the solo. It feels like the entire song builds up to that point and it literally gives me goosebumps when it hits, even when I already know its coming.

Number 35 - Strange Déjà Vu - Scenes From a Memory

"I'm still searching but I don't know what for,
The missing key to unlock my mind's door,"


Why it made the list - this is almost the kick start to Scenes from a Memory and it is a ripping start. Just gets straight into it. It's a good solid heavy track. The guitar in particular is a real highlight while Portnoy's drumming is quite impressive here too. This is pretty much the first track (along with the preceding overture) that Jordan Ruddess is featured on and it is a brilliant introduction to him. The whole concept of déjà vu and what Nicholas is feeling is also very well represented in this track. The bassline underneath the middle section really gives it a groovy feel.

Why it didn't finish higher - there has always been something about this song I just cannot put my finger on. It is in some way lacking though I can't think what. Perhaps the song while being awesome is just missing that vital ingredient to push it further up the list. Look at the songs directly above it. All of them have a wow moment. (You'll see) Whereas this lacks that.

Best part - I actually don't have a favourite part. The song is so consistent. I just enjoy all of it.  Cop out I know but it's true.






Offline Yit Say Jammer

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Lifting Shadows and Surrounded I consider similar in that they didn't stand out too much at first, but really grew on me in the context of listening to their respective albums. And Outcry is one the "big 3" from ADTOE. Although I prefer BAI/BITS a bit more. Peruvian Skies was always an instant classic for me from FII right from the get go.

Edit: Sorry was supposed to edit this into my above post... Oh well. xD

I pretty much agree with this entire post.

I'll post the next update tomorrow. Any more opinions before then?

Offline mikemangioy

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Those are all great songs, and I'd put them around where you put them, so yeah, I approve of this update.  :tup
Because Mike is better than Mike