Author Topic: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results  (Read 12424 times)

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Offline cramx3

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2016, 02:29:26 PM »
I would love an inside look on the business of a band.  I'm not really a business guy so maybe it's just my love for the music that makes it so interesting to me, but my curiosities spike when we talk about the numbers from a concert and how that translates to profits (or loss) for the band members. 

It's interesting stuff.  From the outside, without giving it much thought, it is easy to think along the lines of, "Well, if they sell X tickets for a show, and the tickets cost Y, the total is Z, so let's assume the band gets 50% (or whatever number), and the rest just gets split between all the other people who get paid."  But that isn't really how it works at all.  The model is more like this:

-Band management negotiates with local promoters for their guarantees for particular venues.  The promoter then negotiates directly with the venue, local radio stations, vendors, etc. 
-Contract is ultimately agreed to that entitles "the Band" (not the band members, but rather the band's corporate entity) to a certain guaranteed amount for playing the show (and there can sometimes be contingencies that cause the guarantee to fluctuate).  The contract will also specific how much others get paid (the venue, outside security, the promotion company, local advertisers, ticket sales company, etc.). 
-The Band (i.e. the corporate entity) gets paid their guarantee (which is a MUCH smaller amount than you might think) and then has to pay a bunch of other people:  their management staff, their crew, the lighting and production company, whoever is moving all the stuff, hospitality (hotels, food, and transportation for everyone), their own security (if applicable), etc.  Their are a LOT of people who need to get paid.
-Whatever money is left is held by the Band (the entity again), and the band members usually get a fixed, predetermined salary at regular intervals, and then probably pay out "bonuses" at the end of the tax year so the entity doesn't get taxed on money it is holding, and the band members themselves have to pay for their own health insurance and all that stuff that normal people get from their jobs. 

There are variations, and there are lots of other steps and details that are left out, but that is pretty close to how it typically works.

Awesome info, really cool stuff and totally figured a band operates as a company due to all the payouts and what not since like you said, it's more than just the members of the band.  I also always figured all the band money goes into a pot to get distributed as pay checks to the members, otherwise personally managing your money becomes really difficult without a steady flow of income. 

Offline red barchetta

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2016, 10:20:41 PM »
I don't know exactly how it works but is it possible there is no guarantee for a basic amount of money for each show on the whole tour? I mean they certainly have an idea about how many people they need (approximately) to break even. In fact, for a band like them, I'm sure they make a profit on each show.

Travelling, hôtel rooms, meals, band crew, venues locations, publicity, etc etc, Jordan hairdresser, JP dumbles, James so tight clothes, JM does he really need something'? and MM more cameras to catch live his speedy hands lol, they certainly have it all figured out pretty much. With some +- margin, impossible to be exactly sure.
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Online TAC

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2016, 05:35:11 AM »
My understanding is that the margins are smaller than one might think.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline cramx3

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2016, 06:15:46 AM »
My understanding is that the margins are smaller than one might think.

And that's why you have to play so many shows around the world, clearly it works though. 

Offline Anguyen92

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2017, 08:48:05 PM »
Bumping this thread as DT are back on the boxscore this week.  From their show in Sydney, Australia.

177   Dream Theater   Hordern Pavilion   Sydney, Australia   Sept. 19, 2017   $159,485   1,465 / 1,509   1 / 0   $129.52, $105.11   One World Entertainment

On the one hand, this is a pretty good showing for DT in Australia.  Good attendance, revenue, and averaging over $100 a ticket (shows in Australia are always expensive like hell).  The concerning part though is that I'm looking at the capacity of the venue and it can hold up to 5,500 people and apparently the show as structured to fill only 1,500 so I'm a bit confused on whether or not DT's intention was to fill 5k people in that show.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #75 on: October 04, 2017, 09:50:08 PM »
Australian tickets were $130 for outer-row seats & $160 for close-to-stage seats. When I was there it seemed pretty full, but it may just have been how the seats were set up. Maybe there's a bigger theater elsewhere in the building? I'm not sure.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2017, 01:31:33 AM »
Bumping this thread as DT are back on the boxscore this week.  From their show in Sydney, Australia.

177   Dream Theater   Hordern Pavilion   Sydney, Australia   Sept. 19, 2017   $159,485   1,465 / 1,509   1 / 0   $129.52, $105.11   One World Entertainment

On the one hand, this is a pretty good showing for DT in Australia.  Good attendance, revenue, and averaging over $100 a ticket (shows in Australia are always expensive like hell).  The concerning part though is that I'm looking at the capacity of the venue and it can hold up to 5,500 people and apparently the show as structured to fill only 1,500 so I'm a bit confused on whether or not DT's intention was to fill 5k people in that show.

The Hordern is basically just a big empty floor, with some elevated rows of seats on the left/right side of the room (which I don't think DT use, and don't fit all that many). I didn't go this time, but did they do seated instead? With those numbers, they might be better off playing a smaller venue like the Enmore Theatre.
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2017, 01:20:02 PM »
Bumping this thread as DT are back on the boxscore this week.  From their show in Sydney, Australia.

177   Dream Theater   Hordern Pavilion   Sydney, Australia   Sept. 19, 2017   $159,485   1,465 / 1,509   1 / 0   $129.52, $105.11   One World Entertainment

On the one hand, this is a pretty good showing for DT in Australia.  Good attendance, revenue, and averaging over $100 a ticket (shows in Australia are always expensive like hell).  The concerning part though is that I'm looking at the capacity of the venue and it can hold up to 5,500 people and apparently the show as structured to fill only 1,500 so I'm a bit confused on whether or not DT's intention was to fill 5k people in that show.

We have an arena in town that isn't doing so great.  I don't live in a huge area but big enough to have minor league sports teams, etc.  This arena can hold 10,000 people for concerts but we aren't getting too many big acts through here.  Occasionally they have concerts that are a lot cheaper to put on, they have fewer concessions open, and have fewer staff working the event.  They close off the entire upper bowl so basically the capacity is now put at 6,000.  We've been getting more acts through that are more small time and fill maybe 2-3000 seats.  Makes the arena more money than keeping it closed.  One I went to only had about 500 people there and they were selling tickets for 7 bucks.  Other times they basically sell out the whole floor and lower bowl.

A lot of other places do that now too.  If there is an anomaly and a huge demand all they gotta do is start selling seats for the closed off section but that is rare.  I'm betting that's what happened in Australia.

Offline Anguyen92

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2017, 09:45:17 PM »
I forgot to mention.  DT's on the boxscore this week.  From their show in Chicago.

Dream Theater   Chicago Theatre   Chicago, Ill.  Nov. 3, 2017    $142,321   2,560 / 3,553  1 / 0 $86.25, $66.25, $41.50, $26.25   Live Nation/MSG Live

If you look past the fact that they did not sell 1k tickets to make it a sold-out show, this is actually a good result from them.  Not too many bands after the "who's who" of popular rock and metal bands can be able to sell 2,500 tickets in a big city like Chicago as a standalone headliner and the revenue the show drew in ticket sales is above six-figures, averaging almost $60 (as a face value).
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 09:51:37 PM by Anguyen92 »

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2017, 10:56:24 PM »
Interesting.  They did 3,153 3 years ago touring in support of DT12.  Selling 600 fewer seats isn't a huge deal but I for one am actually surprised they did better touring for their new (at the time) album as opposed to their arguably most popular album.  I'm actually quite happy that new music seems to evoke a slightly higher demand than nostalgia. 

Offline Mladen

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #80 on: November 20, 2017, 12:35:06 AM »
Have their tickets gone more expensive over the last three years? Can anyone compare the two Chicago shows?

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #81 on: November 21, 2017, 11:09:04 PM »


Dream Theater   Chicago Theatre   Chicago, Ill.  Nov. 3, 2017    $142,321   2,560 / 3,553  1 / 0 $86.25, $66.25, $41.50, $26.25   Live Nation/MSG Live





Dream Theater     Chicago Theatre  Chicago, Ill.   April 30, 2016   $160,399   3,227 /  3,553   1 / 0   $86.25, $66.25, $56.25, $26.25   Live Nation/MSG Entertainmen


60 Dream Theater Chicago Theatre Chicago, Ill. April 5, 2014 $148,223 3,153 / 3,553 1 / 0 $66, $56, $46, $26 Live Nation/MSG Entertainment


Tickets were relatively cheaper in 2014 but the additional seats sold only translated to an additional $6,000.

Also interesting that the Astonishing show sold so well.  I think the drop off in attendance can be attributed to them touring again so soon after their last Chicago show, not touring in support of new material and ticket prices.  Still pretty good numbers all things considered. 

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #82 on: November 22, 2017, 07:31:52 AM »
^ Yeah, I think that could mean it's time for a break in touring and a new studio album. Looks like taking some time off in 2018 for JP to do G3 will be good for the band. By the time they come back around NA they will have a new album and it will have been a couple years since they last played in most cities. That should increase demand.

Offline cramx3

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #83 on: November 22, 2017, 08:04:24 AM »
Yea JLB has been saying see ya in 2019 with a new album and tour.  If the music is good, the people will come to the shows.  It was nice to see mostly full theaters for this tour compared to the emptiness of the previous TA tour.  Shows people still care about DT even if they didn't like TA.

Offline Anguyen92

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2018, 11:24:13 PM »
DT is on the boxscore this week.  Here's how did they in their show in Oakland, CA.

Dream Theater   Fox Theater   Oakland, Calif.   Oct. 25, 2017   $113,576   1,701 / 1,897   1 / 0   $85, $49.50   Another Planet Entertainment

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #85 on: January 11, 2018, 09:00:59 AM »
DT is on the boxscore this week.  Here's how did they in their show in Oakland, CA.

Dream Theater   Fox Theater   Oakland, Calif.   Oct. 25, 2017   $113,576   1,701 / 1,897   1 / 0   $85, $49.50   Another Planet Entertainment
Thanks for posting. Stupid question: what does the "1 / 0" mean? I can figure everything else out, but not that.
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Offline Anguyen92

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2018, 12:44:36 PM »
Oh, that can be confusing as well.  The 1 is the number of shows that they played in the same venue around that period.  The 0 means the number of shows that they sold out in that venue for the period.  It basically means that Dream Theater played a show in that venue, but they did not sell it out.  It would be reflective upon attendance as well.  For instance, the post I did, if the attendance was 1,897/1,897, the 1 / 0 would be 1 / 1 instead.

For instance, if Billboard showed what Dream Theater did in their two shows at the Wiltern Theater in Los Angeles back in 2016, but the two shows were not sold out, it would be reported as 2 / 0

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2018, 04:00:47 PM »
Thanks for the explanation!
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Anguyen92

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #88 on: January 23, 2018, 08:04:37 PM »
Here's how well-attended DT's show in New York City in November 2017 was.

Dream Theater   Beacon Theatre   New York, N.Y.   Nov. 16, 2017   $154,538   2,202 / 2,775   1 / 0   $119, $68.50, $58.50, $48.50   Metamorphic Productions

Now, this is the interesting thing.  This being NYC, I actually thought they might have done better in the attendance, especially when it comes to playing Images and Words in full and NYC being a really big area for DT in general.

Oddly enough, when DT came to NYC for The Astonishing tour, they played a bigger venue (Radio City Music Hall) and had more than twice the amount of attendance and generated more than twice the revenue.  These are the kinds of comparisons that makes you wonder sometimes.

Dream Theater   Radio City Music Hall      New York, N.Y.   April 23, 2016   $343,203   5,307 / 5,850   1 / 0   $120, $74.50, $59.50, $34.50     Live Nation/MSG Entertainment

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2018, 07:35:45 AM »
Here's how well-attended DT's show in New York City in November 2017 was.

Dream Theater   Beacon Theatre   New York, N.Y.   Nov. 16, 2017   $154,538   2,202 / 2,775   1 / 0   $119, $68.50, $58.50, $48.50   Metamorphic Productions

Now, this is the interesting thing.  This being NYC, I actually thought they might have done better in the attendance, especially when it comes to playing Images and Words in full and NYC being a really big area for DT in general.

Oddly enough, when DT came to NYC for The Astonishing tour, they played a bigger venue (Radio City Music Hall) and had more than twice the amount of attendance and generated more than twice the revenue.  These are the kinds of comparisons that makes you wonder sometimes.

Dream Theater   Radio City Music Hall      New York, N.Y.   April 23, 2016   $343,203   5,307 / 5,850   1 / 0   $120, $74.50, $59.50, $34.50     Live Nation/MSG Entertainment

Over-saturation?

Offline cramx3

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2018, 08:16:35 AM »
You have to take more into account.  That DT show at RCMH was a pretty big one for the band, as they didn't do too many shows that first round in the US and many travelled to NYC for that show.  I know this because we here at DTF and the fan club had a really nice meet up, and it was half locals half people travelled it seemed. 

The attendance for Beacon Theater seems normal for DT.  I'd wonder what the follow up NJ shows attendance was.  For TA tour it was probably very little, but the I&W show seemed fairly well attended.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2018, 08:28:48 AM »
You have to take more into account.  That DT show at RCMH was a pretty big one for the band, as they didn't do too many shows that first round in the US and many travelled to NYC for that show.  I know this because we here at DTF and the fan club had a really nice meet up, and it was half locals half people travelled it seemed. 

The attendance for Beacon Theater seems normal for DT.  I'd wonder what the follow up NJ shows attendance was.  For TA tour it was probably very little, but the I&W show seemed fairly well attended.

Good point, anytime DT plays Radio City it seems like an extra special event. I'd love to see attendance comparisons of the TA tour vs the I&W tour, especially in cities where they played the same venue.

Offline Anguyen92

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Re: DT's Billboard Boxscore Results
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2018, 10:51:33 AM »
You have to take more into account.  That DT show at RCMH was a pretty big one for the band, as they didn't do too many shows that first round in the US and many travelled to NYC for that show.  I know this because we here at DTF and the fan club had a really nice meet up, and it was half locals half people travelled it seemed. 

The attendance for Beacon Theater seems normal for DT.  I'd wonder what the follow up NJ shows attendance was.  For TA tour it was probably very little, but the I&W show seemed fairly well attended.

Ahhh.  Didn't know that.  Thanks for that little tidbit there.