Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part Two: The Covers-listed from oldest to newest

[TheGreatPretender]

To Tame a Land might not be the most popular track here, but who's heard the original? It's a bit of a drunken mess if you ask me, but the DT version is tight and very coherent. I think that's what's strong about all the the covers is that they're well played, even if mostly replicating the original work, I'd say they play a lot of the material (but not always) better than the originals, and the band as a unit has got a much tighter hold on the timing.

Well, DT's version was from a tribute to the Piece of Mind album, right? I thought it was weird that they chose to cover that particular song, but when I found out that's where it's from, I was kinda pissed because like, DT are some of the best musicians in the genre, and they're huge Maiden fans, and giving them that particular song, I really felt like they got the short end of the stick there. They really should've been given... Hell, they should've gotten The Trooper! But yeah, considering what they had to work with, their version is pretty excellent.

[Rodni Demental]

Wut? The IM version is amazing, not sure how its a drunken mess.

Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit by calling it a drunken mess xD. And I like the Iron Maiden version too, I guess I was trying to make a point about some of the differences because the guitar for example, isn't as tightly in sync with the drums in certain sections, like the chugs. You will surely know what I mean about the coherence of the performance if you listened to the IM version after the DT version, just doesn't feel as tight and polished as the DT version. Which is a quality I believe DT bring to their covers, a fine coat of polish. Of course some thing's don't need any extra polish and are fine the way they are but that's a generalised reason for the appeal of some DT covers imo.

[cramx3]

Wut? The IM version is amazing, not sure how its a drunken mess.

Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit by calling it a drunken mess xD. And I like the Iron Maiden version too, I guess I was trying to make a point about some of the differences because the guitar for example, isn't as tightly in sync with the drums in certain sections, like the chugs. You will surely know what I mean about the coherence of the performance if you listened to the IM version after the DT version, just doesn't feel as tight and polished as the DT version. Which is a quality I believe DT bring to their covers, a fine coat of polish. Of course some thing's don't need any extra polish and are fine the way they are but that's a generalised reason for the appeal of some DT covers imo.

Oh ok, that makes more sense and I can see what you are saying there.  DT definitely do a "tighter" version of it, I can agree with that.

Well, DT's version was from a tribute to the Piece of Mind album, right? I thought it was weird that they chose to cover that particular song, but when I found out that's where it's from, I was kinda pissed because like, DT are some of the best musicians in the genre, and they're huge Maiden fans, and giving them that particular song, I really felt like they got the short end of the stick there. They really should've been given... Hell, they should've gotten The Trooper! But yeah, considering what they had to work with, their version is pretty excellent.

Why is it weird they chose that song? To me that is a song that is totally an IM song that DT would cover as it is a more progressive IM song.  Also should note that DT covered all of TNotB and also on one of the bootlegs they do the Trooper with Bruce singing so they've done a bunch of IM songs already.  I thought it was a great choice, although of course they could have done other songs particularly some of the newer material that would have also been great choices.

[TheGreatPretender]

Why is it weird they chose that song? To me that is a song that is totally an IM song that DT would cover as it is a more progressive IM song.  Also should note that DT covered all of TNotB and also on one of the bootlegs they do the Trooper with Bruce singing so they've done a bunch of IM songs already.  I thought it was a great choice, although of course they could have done other songs particularly some of the newer material that would have also been great choices.

I meant it was weird that they chose that particular Maiden song. It's not a really popular Maiden song, the subject matter is a little niche, I mean, if Maiden likes Dune, it's understandable, but for DT to cover the Dune song, it was kind of weird. And like I said, at the time I figured why wouldn't they do something from their later albums like you said, since I didn't know it was from a tribute to that whole album, so obviously somebody would've had to do it. Still, shame that they were stuck with that particular song though. It's certainly not the best or most memorable song even on that particular album.

[cramx3]

But you dont think that song fits DT?  Also, the tribute album was not for Peace of Mind, it was from the Maiden Heaven CD that was released with a special Kerrang magazine.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/KERRANG-PRESENTS-MAIDEN-HEAVEN-TRIBUTE/dp/B00BGEANEM I bought the magazine to get the CD because I am a huge IM fan and when I saw DT was on it, I had to get it.  Also, one band did Brave New World so new material was not off the list, but I dont think it was a bad choice at all for DT.

[Nearmyth]

Queen medley by far! Followed by Odyssey, super cool stuff

[TheGreatPretender]

But you dont think that song fits DT?  Also, the tribute album was not for Peace of Mind, it was from the Maiden Heaven CD that was released with a special Kerrang magazine.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/KERRANG-PRESENTS-MAIDEN-HEAVEN-TRIBUTE/dp/B00BGEANEM I bought the magazine to get the CD because I am a huge IM fan and when I saw DT was on it, I had to get it.  Also, one band did Brave New World so new material was not off the list, but I dont think it was a bad choice at all for DT.

Huh. Okay, my mistake. But there you go, then. Personally, I would've loved to see them do another song. Yeah, TTAL kind of fits them, stylistically, but in terms of like I said the subject matter, and the fact that it's not even that good of a song by Maiden standards, it would've been great to see them do something better. I mean, if you ask me, most of the material from Seventh Son would've been great and very fitting for Maiden. Moonchild would've been an amazing cover to do.

[cramx3]

Well I could name a bunch of other songs Id love to see them cover, specifically from A Matter of Life and Death.  Regardless, I love how JM sounds on TTaL.  He is actually very audible as fitting for doing a Steve Harris song. 

[TheGreatPretender]

Right, but I'd be hard pressed to find a person, even among Maiden fans who if you'd have asked, "Which song should DT cover?" their first off the top of their head answer would be, "To Tame a Land".
But yeah, I was just saying, considering the choice of song, they did a pretty great job at it. But then, that can be said for every other cover on this particular CD as well.

[Stadler]

Really? The fact that you hear the rendition of the people who created the song has no additional value to you?
Like, let's assume for a second that JLB's vocals were superior to Freddie's (which they really aren't). Even in that case, it would have to be a LOT better to counteract the fact that they're just mimicking somebody else's work.

I know you're not talking to me with that question, but it has almost NONE additional value to me.  I like the version that I like and it rarely is based only on "who did it first".  I like Metallica's "Stone Cold Crazy" better, and it isn't that different.   In fact, now that I am thinking about it, the more different the interpretation (i.e. the cover of "Land of Confusion" by Disturbed) the less I like it. 

[TheGreatPretender]

In fact, now that I am thinking about it, the more different the interpretation (i.e. the cover of "Land of Confusion" by Disturbed) the less I like it.

It also depends on how you feel about the original band, I suppose.

I mean, I don't like U2 as a band very much at all. But hearing U2 covers by bands such as Disturbed and Fear Factory, where they changed the composition to their own, more aggressive styles, I actually like their interpretations quite a bit, whereas hearing the originals does absolutely nothing for me.

[chaossystem]

My favorite on this disc is far and away "Stargazer."
I don't (and didn't) even have to think about it.
I've always loved that song, and loved hearing what the band did with it.

I like the ORIGINAL (Maiden) version of "To Tame a Land," but I'm more less forced to agree with those of you who have "bashed" it.
I can LISTEN to it, but it they changed it TOO much for it to ever be even close to sounding as good as the original.
ANOTHER problem is that there are some songs that James's voice just isn't RIGHT for, and I'm afraid that this is ONE of them.

To be honest with you I'm not at all familiar with the rest of the tracks on this disc, and I'm not the biggest fan of King Crimson or Queen, either. But I DO like a FEW of Queen's songs, and K.C.'s FIRST album.
Having said that, I DO like the two instrumental pieces, and I DO have SOME familiarity with the Dixie Dregs, so any DT cover of something by them will probably be a GOOD cover.
But I would have picked "A Kind of Magic" for the QUEEN cover, and "Who's Behind the Door" by Zebra.
Really don't care for the songs that they DID pick by those two bands.

[TheGreatPretender]

I like the ORIGINAL (Maiden) version of "To Tame a Land," but I'm more less forced to agree with those of you who have "bashed" it.
I can LISTEN to it, but it they changed it TOO much for it to ever be even close to sounding as good as the original.
ANOTHER problem is that there are some songs that James's voice just isn't RIGHT for, and I'm afraid that this is ONE of them.

Actually, if you read carefully, most of the people who "bashed" it believe that DT did a great job on To Tame A Land and some of us think DT's version is BETTER than the original.

[chaossystem]

Well, there were some people who didn't like it, and there's no law, or even a "DT Forum rule" that says we have to agree with one another.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, there were some people who didn't like it, and there's no law, or even a "DT Forum rule" that says we have to agree with one another.

Yeah, but you were saying that you agree with everyone else about TTAL, but the comments I saw said the opposite of what you said.

[bosk1]

...there's no law, or even a "DT Forum rule" that says we have to agree with one another.

No, but there IS a forum rule about baiting other users.  And almost without exception, every one of your posts starts with assumptions or statements that are patently false, which appears to be a concerted effort to stir up trouble and bait people into arguments.  I, for one, am tired of seeing those kinds of posts.  Consider this your final warning that you are going to be banned from the forum if you continue to antagonize people and stir up trouble.

[puppyonacid]

I really don't see how a Kind of Magic would have been a better fit for DT than the Queen covers they did.

The Queen covers they did choose are representative of a time when Queen were arguably prog rock - and DT did a good job. I prefer the Queen originals but I am biased since I'm a huge Queen fan. That being the case, I can't see any basis for DT covering a later Queen "pop" song.

[Outcrier]

Yeah, i thought the same.

[TheGreatPretender]

I really don't see how a Kind of Magic would have been a better fit for DT than the Queen covers they did.

The Queen covers they did choose are representative of a time when Queen were arguably prog rock - and DT did a good job. I prefer the Queen originals but I am biased since I'm a huge Queen fan. That being the case, I can't see any basis for DT covering a later Queen "pop" song.

Agreed entirely. Although honestly, I would have loved to see them do something more hard rock oriented from queen such as I Want It All, or even Innuendo, which in itself is pretty progressive structurally.

[puppyonacid]

I doubt anyone but Freddie could have done Innuendo any justice live - it is a great track though!

I'm not sure where else DT could have gone with a Queen cover as the deeper cuts are a bit harder to pull off. TBH, when I'd heard what they were attempting on BC&SL with regards to Queen covers, I was really skeptical! They did nail it though.

White Man would have been cool from a day at the races.

[TheGreatPretender]

I doubt anyone but Freddie could have done Innuendo any justice live - it is a great track though!

I'm not sure where else DT could have gone with a Queen cover as the deeper cuts are a bit harder to pull off. TBH, when I'd heard what they were attempting on BC&SL with regards to Queen covers, I was really skeptical! They did nail it though.

I didn't mean live, but I think Innuendo's particular style would actually fit JLB really well. And dude, with all due respect to Queen, musically, I don't think there's a single Queen song that DT couldn't do justice to.

[puppyonacid]

I doubt anyone but Freddie could have done Innuendo any justice live - it is a great track though!

I'm not sure where else DT could have gone with a Queen cover as the deeper cuts are a bit harder to pull off. TBH, when I'd heard what they were attempting on BC&SL with regards to Queen covers, I was really skeptical! They did nail it though.

I didn't mean live, but I think Innuendo's particular style would actually fit JLB really well. And dude, with all due respect to Queen, musically, I don't think there's a single Queen song that DT couldn't do justice to.

The Prophets song? Seaside Rendezvous? March of the Black Queen? Bring Back that Leroy brown? I could go on. DT don't have the vocals to do it.

I wasn't dissing DT.  Fact is though Queen had Freddie. I love JLB and do not get the hate towards him but he's no Freddie. And I find that covering Queen is hard not so much from a music standpoint, but from the fact that most people that cover them often just end up sounding like cheesy covers bands. That's my experience anyway/.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, whether you like JLB's voice better than Freddie's or not, is one thing, but he does have a wider range than Freddie by about half an octave, and it does go very high, so note for note, he could cover those songs and still bring power to his performance without a problem. I mean, some Queen songs would be impossible to do justice to live, because of vocal layering and all that, but in a studio setting, I think it would work. I'm not saying JLB's performance would surpass what Freddie did, but it would still be enjoyable, and the songs would still sound great.

[puppyonacid]

Axl Rose also has a bigger range than Freddie. Jus' sayin'.

Incidentally, you don't hear JLB multi tracked that often in DT. I've often thought it's because his timbre and vibrato might not work for multi tracking.

[Stadler]

I doubt anyone but Freddie could have done Innuendo any justice live - it is a great track though!

I'm not sure where else DT could have gone with a Queen cover as the deeper cuts are a bit harder to pull off. TBH, when I'd heard what they were attempting on BC&SL with regards to Queen covers, I was really skeptical! They did nail it though.

White Man would have been cool from a day at the races.

I am certainly not trying to argue with you, and while I don't think he did BETTER than Freddie, the Robert Plant version of Innuendo from the Memorial Concert is literally the ONE SONG that I would love to hear over and over, and is, ironically, the one song that is not on the official releases from that show (Plant blocked it).    I thought Plant was one of a handful of singers (Cherone, John, Rose) that didn't get chewed up and spit out by the Queen catalogue.   

There's a lot of good Queen for DT to cover, but having said that, I can't quibble; they have to play SOMETHING, and better what they did play than say, BoRhap or something obvious like that.  Queen II is my favorite Queen album (followed by A Kind Of Magic) but I'm not sure there's anything there that is ripe to cover.   Ogre Battle, maybe?  One Vision?   Though thinking about it, I don't caer for the song, but I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear James and Mike do the "Insanity laughs under pressure we're cracking..." section of Under Pressure (like Freddie and Roger do it on Live Magic).

[TheGreatPretender]

Axl Rose also has a bigger range than Freddie. Jus' sayin'.

Incidentally, you don't hear JLB multi tracked that often in DT. I've often thought it's because his timbre and vibrato might not work for multi tracking.

Well, don't ask me, I don't like Axl's voice in general. But he was apparently awarded the title of "Greatest Rock Singer" or whatever it was. So there's no accounting for taste, I suppose.

[Stadler]

Axl Rose also has a bigger range than Freddie. Jus' sayin'.

Incidentally, you don't hear JLB multi tracked that often in DT. I've often thought it's because his timbre and vibrato might not work for multi tracking.

It's not true multitracking, but I do like when James sings with himself, ala "This Is The Life".   I LOVE that effect.

And @puppyonacid has a great point:  range isn't everything.   I think Freddie is the greatest singer in what we would call "Rock".  He's got the whole package:  range, power, tone, bombast, subtle, opera, metal... Queen's music was about as (stylistically) varied as any major touring acts could be, and he did it all.  James is close (I'm a big fan of his singing, if not the man) but Freddie is still the standard by which others are measured, in my opinion. 

[TheGreatPretender]

It's not true multitracking, but I do like when James sings with himself, ala "This Is The Life".   I LOVE that effect.

Hey, take any harmonies from I&W, the "Be confined" section of Metropolis, JLB sounds fantastic harmonizing with himself.

And @puppyonacid has a great point:  range isn't everything.   I think Freddie is the greatest singer in what we would call "Rock".  He's got the whole package:  range, power, tone, bombast, subtle, opera, metal... Queen's music was about as (stylistically) varied as any major touring acts could be, and he did it all.  James is close (I'm a big fan of his singing, if not the man) but Freddie is still the standard by which others are measured, in my opinion.

I'm not saying that range is everything, but I'd say it is one of the most important factors when it comes to doing a note for note cover of the original. And considering that DT has always done covers very faithfully to the originals, James' range is very important. I just can't help but think of times when a singer is trying to do a cover of another singer and he can't even reach the proper notes, that's where I go, "Yeah... Dude... Give it up."
But JLB can hit those notes. And do so confidently. And that's all that really matters as he can't really do much more to "change his voice to sound like Freddie".

[Orbert]

Actually, the way JLB sings the Queen covers, with the same expression and subtlety as the originals, is what really surprised me and, in my opinion, makes the covers so impressive.  I knew he had the range; I was just surprised at how much he could sound like Freddie, and it's not really his voice, it's the way he sings.  I didn't know JLB had that in him.

I mean, you're right; he can't change his voice to sound like Freddie, but I think the way he imitated Freddie's style and delivery more than made up for that, and he does sound like Freddie.

[chaossystem]

...there's no law, or even a "DT Forum rule" that says we have to agree with one another.

No, but there IS a forum rule about baiting other users.  And almost without exception, every one of your posts starts with assumptions or statements that are patently false, which appears to be a concerted effort to stir up trouble and bait people into arguments.  I, for one, am tired of seeing those kinds of posts.  Consider this your final warning that you are going to be banned from the forum if you continue to antagonize people and stir up trouble.

I THOUGHT I was right about a lot of people not liking that version of that song.

I didn't START the argument about it.

[TheGreatPretender]

If you take every word he capitalizes and then imagine Chandler from Friends saying it, it's actually quite funny!

[SuperTaco]

If you take every word he capitalizes and then imagine Chandler from Friends saying it, it's actually quite funny!

 

It wasn't ME, it was MONICA.

I picked "To Tame A Land" because I've been learning the rhythm guitar parts. It's pretty fun.

[hefdaddy42]

If you take every word he capitalizes and then imagine Chandler from Friends saying it, it's actually quite funny!

Oh, crap 

[puppyonacid]

Just a word on Robert Plants version of Innuendo.

He blocked it because it was atrocious. It was clearly under rehearsed and he really fluffed it up. He misses notes all over the place and comes in a measure early for the second verse.

I'm not criticising RP generally as I do really like his voice but this was a terrible performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7LM9s3Lm4A

One of the YT comments says he was ill at the time. Could be that I guess.

[Stadler]

Just a word on Robert Plants version of Innuendo.

He blocked it because it was atrocious. It was clearly under rehearsed and he really fluffed it up. He misses notes all over the place and comes in a measure early for the second verse.

I'm not criticising RP generally as I do really like his voice but this was a terrible performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7LM9s3Lm4A

One of the YT comments says he was ill at the time. Could be that I guess.

I get the roughness and rawness, but I liked that for the fit between singer and song.  It wasn't a 3:10 pop song.  Innuendo was one of the more Zeppelin-like songs in the Queen catalogue, and I liked how they interpolated Kashmir into the middle section, and I liked how Brian played the original "flamenco" parts (I think played by Steve Howe on record).   Then the return back into Innuendo... and at that point, Plant's voice seems to be loosening up a bit.