Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part One: The new songs:

[ToT-147]

I also think SC was a grower.. At first I almost hated songs like TDEN, ItPoE, Repentance, PoW.. But then all these became from good to great songs to me.. I was just not listening very carefully.. They did some seriously different stuff in that album..

Actually, I think that's THE album that have most influenced Haken.. And I know I'm not saying nothing new, at least for some..

[The Letter M]

It seems to me that this album is/was a "grower."

NO IT'S NOT.

Then what IS it???

If it's not a grower, then it's obviously a shower.

-Marc.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Then what IS it???

Depends on who you ask. Personally, Black Clouds was a definite shrinker. It was one of the first DT albums I recall hearing and I absolutely loved it, but now I hardly return to it with the exception of TCOT.

[TheGreatPretender]

It seems to me that this album is/was a "grower."

NO IT'S NOT.

Then what IS it???

If it's not a grower, then it's obviously a shower.

-Marc.

That's what she said?

[chaossystem]

WHO are you talking about, and WHY???

If it's ME, what did I do to YOU???

[Rodni Demental]

No one insulting anyone, just lots of penis innuendos being used to describe the album. I believe that BD&SC is somewhat of a grower though.

[TheGreatPretender]

I would love to be banned?

 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I never got how people have that problem. Don't you have to turn on the filter manually?

[hefdaddy42]

Actually, I think that's THE album that have most influenced Haken.. And I know I'm not saying nothing new, at least for some..

[erwinrafael]

Actually, I think that's THE album that have most influenced Haken.. And I know I'm not saying nothing new, at least for some..

Interesting thread, this is. 

[ToT-147]

My bad.. I talked about SC instead of BC&SL.. The latter it's not a grower for me.. It has always been absolutely great, and I think it'll never grow more than that.. In fact that would be almost impossible..

I guess I confused myself that way because I was seeing two topics at the same time.. The other one was about SC..

Anyway the mistake was about that, and not for the Haken thing.. Only that I wasn't saying that BC&SL influenced them that much (which maybe also did), but SC.. If you're a musician, you should know what I'm talking about.. If not, maybe too..

[TheGreatPretender]

I never listened to Haken, but if they were influenced by SC, then maybe that needs to be rectified.

[hefdaddy42]

I am kind of a musician, and I like Haken, but I don't hear any specific SC influence, although DT as a band is certainly influential on them.

Is this something you are deducing on your own, or have they said anything about that?

[ToT-147]

Obviously I'm saying that ONE of the influences of Haken it's DT, which it's not a mistery at all.. It's the most obvious and main influence.. With that said, I (and some other ppl) think that SC has a lot of elements which Haken used in some of their songs.. I mean specially to ItPoE and TDEN's several innovations.. The sound, the scales, the climaxes, the vocal melodies, the instrumental parts....

I never listened to Haken, but if they were influenced by SC, then maybe that needs to be rectified.

I don't think so.. Not at all.. 

Is this something you are deducing on your own, or have they said anything about that?

I have.. And then find some comments of other people that have the same thinking.. That's why I thought it wouldn't be nothing new, at least for most of you.. Maybe I'm wrong in that.. And no.. I have not idea if they've said anything of this.. I don't think that is something that one can ask them.. It's maybe irrelevant.. (Not for me )..

Anyway, Haken it's too varied... I'm just saying that when I listen to certain songs, SC's references are always there...

[hefdaddy42]

See, I think that by and large, Haken's work is much more, I dunno, "deep" than what DT did on SC.  I don't hear any similarity there at all.

*shrugs*

[Newmz]

I think that Haken has a very unique and remarkable ability to sound like so many different great bands at the same time without copying them. What makes it even more remarkable is that you can clearly pick out each influence but the collective product is something so new and fresh.

I really hope they are around for a long time.

[erwinrafael]

See, I think that by and large, Haken's work is much more, I dunno, "deep" than what DT did on SC.  I don't hear any similarity there at all.

*shrugs*

Well, the guitar in Nocturnal Conspiracy does sound a bit like the guitar on TMOLS.

[Dave_Manchester]

An extremely uneven album showcasing some of the best and worst of the band. Petrucci has 3 of his best solos on here, there's a satisfying conclusion to the generally dull AA Suite, a touching (but, again, uneven) song to Portnoy's father, and to my ears the band's single greatest song - The Count of Tuscany (which naturally got my vote in this poll).

But it also contains prime examples of some of the things which made me a bit tired of this band in the late 2000s. Jordan's widdly keyboard solo in The Shattered Fortress is, to me, aimless. In their greatest and most inspired songs, a DT solo takes the tune from one place to the next, but here it only fills space. A Rite of Passage is twice as long as it needed to be (and again contains much space-filling soloing), and A Nightmare to Remember is one of the band's very rare musical and lyrical abominations. I know it's been 'discussed' to death, but the growling section of this song, even with the growls themselves aside, may 'make sense' (as I've often heard it said), but making sense isn't everything. There are such things are taste and lyrical skill also. It's dreadful to me, it didn't so much jump a shark as orbit the South China Sea, it's mind-numbingly, astonishingly terrible from a band of this calibre. The ineptitude and incompetence of the lyrics and musical choices on this song blow my mind.

So, yes, very much a love/hate scenario with this album. It has superb moments, but on the whole it's all over the place, it's very much the sound of a band which was tired, straining and in the process of breaking apart.     

[erwinrafael]

So tell us how you feel about Wither.

[Dave_Manchester]

So tell us how you feel about Wither.

Meh, it's a pleasant, forgettable, inoffensive ballad, a nice enough listen but nothing remarkable. It's the blandest tune on the album to me; the rest being a weird and awkward amalgamation of the greatness they once were and the bloated boredom they were in danger of becoming.

I love Portnoy and am one of his biggest supporters over on his forum, but his leaving initiated a kind of rebirth for DT, and I love, love, love the 2 albums that followed this one. 

[Rodni Demental]

I like Wither, it sounds nice. But it does seem deliberately contrived with the generic chord progression and structure, in an almost ironic way considering the subject matter. It's almost like, JPs saying, hey look, I can write a radio friendly song if I wanted to with all the elements one would expect.

[TheGreatPretender]

I like Wither, it sounds nice. But it does seem deliberately contrived with the generic chord progression and structure, in an almost ironic way considering the subject matter. It's almost like, JPs saying, hey look, I can write a radio friendly song if I wanted to with all the elements one would expect.

Yeah, I agree with you. Still, Wither's brevity and simple nature makes it probably the most consistent song on the album. Solo aside, there's nothing too extraordinary about it, but at the same time, it doesn't have any bad moments either.

[hefdaddy42]

I like Wither, it sounds nice. But it does seem deliberately contrived with the generic chord progression and structure, in an almost ironic way considering the subject matter. It's almost like, JPs saying, hey look, I can write a radio friendly song if I wanted to with all the elements one would expect.

It's still the best written song on the album.

[King Postwhore]

I like Wither, it sounds nice. But it does seem deliberately contrived with the generic chord progression and structure, in an almost ironic way considering the subject matter. It's almost like, JPs saying, hey look, I can write a radio friendly song if I wanted to with all the elements one would expect.

OH THE SHAME!!!