Black Clouds & Silver Linings, Part One: The new songs:

[vbrodrigues95]

I really really like this album. It was hard deciding between TCOT and TSF. Went with TCOT because it was, and maybe still is, my DT favourite. But man latelly I have been listening to TSF probably more than normal haha  .

[adamack]

I voted for TCoT.

It's ashame...this album could be in my top 5 DT albums if I enjoyed the lyrics in TCoT and TBoT.

Both TCoT and TBoT would likely be top 15 songs with solid lyrics.

That said, all respect to MP and RIP to his father. I understand how TBoT means a lot to him. From his perspective, the lyrics are very heart-warming and make perfect sense. Very accessible for his situation. It just sucks that I never, ever listen to the song anymore because of the word choices. The song, musically, is incredible. Especially JP at the end.

EDIT: Wanted to also add that TSF has grown on me a ton, especially since hearing it on BTFW. Wither is a great little song, especially when watching the music video along with it. Those slow-mo shots make everyone in the band cool as hell.

[mikeyd23]

TCoT easily

[Skeever]

This album is like a shower with crappy plumbing. The water doesn't flow quite right, the temperature is difficult to adjust and you're never looking forward to it. But eventualyl you get used to it, and sometimes, when the circumstances are right, it's actually very satisfying.

I voted for The Shattered Fortress, the best of the 12-Step Suite!

Ha! I think I finally found something of yours I agree with 

[chaossystem]

Wow!

That's HARSH!

Personally I think that an album has two songs on it that I really like-especially if there's only SIX to choose from-it achieves at least PARTIAL redemption.

I REALLY love BOTH "Rite" and "Shattered," And "Nightmare" and "Count" are very good to excellent as well.

I think all FOUR of those songs are good enough to be counted among the DT "classics."

[erwinrafael]

The problem I have actually with BC&SL is that the songs are uneven. For example, TCOT has amazing highs, like the intro and the music after the ambient stuff, but the song portion is a significant downgrade. The same is the case in Nightmare to Remember. It could have been amazing, but the lows of the songs are really low for me.

I did start to appreciate the album better when I forced myself to listen to it every other day around two months ago. I love Wither and TSF. TSF only gets tiring when I look at it as redundantly repeating the other 12SS songs, but when I viewed it in itself, outside the 12SS, I appreciated it much more. The Best of Times is the only song I can't get into.

[TheGreatPretender]

The problem I have actually with BC&SL is that the songs are uneven. For example, TCOT has amazing highs, like the intro and the music after the ambient stuff, but the song portion is a significant downgrade. The same is the case in Nightmare to Remember. It could have been amazing, but the lows of the songs are really low for me.

Yeah, that's exactly the problem I have with it. Wither is really good, but apart from that very short guitar solo, there's nothing truly amazing about it. It's pretty average for a DT ballad. TSF I really like all the way through, but even then, other DT songs of its length make much better use of the time. And then songs like Nightmare, TBOT and TCOT all have some truly amazing moments in them and some not so much. Listening to them, I always focus on the best parts and enjoy them it makes it worth hearing those songs, but thinking about them, and thinking about listening to the album, I can't help but focus on the bad parts, which makes me avoid listening to the album for much longer periods of time than other DT albums.

[erwinrafael]

The problem I have actually with BC&SL is that the songs are uneven. For example, TCOT has amazing highs, like the intro and the music after the ambient stuff, but the song portion is a significant downgrade. The same is the case in Nightmare to Remember. It could have been amazing, but the lows of the songs are really low for me.

Yeah, that's exactly the problem I have with it. Wither is really good, but apart from that very short guitar solo, there's nothing truly amazing about it. It's pretty average for a DT ballad. TSF I really like all the way through, but even then, other DT songs of its length make much better use of the time. And then songs like Nightmare, TBOT and TCOT all have some truly amazing moments in them and some not so much. Listening to them, I always focus on the best parts and enjoy them it makes it worth hearing those songs, but thinking about them, and thinking about listening to the album, I can't help but focus on the bad parts, which makes me avoid listening to the album for much longer periods of time than other DT albums.

Well, it's still much better than SC, which I tried to listen to once a week for already a month now, but never got better to my ears in any way. 

[TheGreatPretender]

Not me. I've loved SC from minute 1, and it's still my #3 album.

[erwinrafael]

Not me. I've loved SC from minute 1, and it's still my #3 album.

Good for you then. I too loved the first minute of SC. Not sure what happened afterwards. 

[TheGreatPretender]

Not me. I've loved SC from minute 1, and it's still my #3 album.

Good for you then. I too loved the first minute of SC. Not sure what happened afterwards. 

You succumbed to the dark master, is what.

[BlobVanDam]

Not me. I've loved SC from minute 1, and it's still my #3 album.

I listened to nothing else for a month when that first came out. Instantly loved it too.

[erwinrafael]

Not me. I've loved SC from minute 1, and it's still my #3 album.

Good for you then. I too loved the first minute of SC. Not sure what happened afterwards. 

You succumbed to the dark master, is what.

You got it reversed. You are the one who succumbed to the dark masterrrrrrrrrrr

[ToT-147]

I voted for TCoT, but I really love most of the songs on this album.. Actually, that's why I rank in second place this incredible, beauty and powerful album, right after TOT..

It has ALL the DT elements that I like in the rest of their catalogue... From ANtR I just enjoy every moment, unlike most of Dream fans, I know, and even like more the riffs, the verses, the "without warning" part, and the instrumental section than the "beautiful agony" part, which it's anyway one of the greatest moments on the album (mainly because its nature and length)..

I wont say anything about the other songs (Wither, TSF, TBoT and TCoT, much has been said about them, and all are pure glory for me) but I will for the only one that no one has mentioned yet: A Rite of Passage.. I mean, what's so wrong with that song? I still don't get why do you hate it so much.... It's a nice song.. Maybe it doesn't have the best melody/riff intro, but then it's all good.. Specially the bis and the solo sections.. BTW, I'm not saying that it's not all a matter of tastes anyway, but that I'm surprise for the general opinion, which dislike this song so hard...

So, the winner it's TCoT for me, but not only of this album.. It's actually IMO their best song since In the Name of God..

 

[lucky7]

The Count of Tuscany... Instant Epic! 

[Rodni Demental]

the only one that no one has mentioned yet: A Rite of Passage.. I mean, what's so wrong with that song? I still don't get why do you hate it so much.... It's a nice song.. Maybe it doesn't have the best melody/riff intro, but then it's all good.. Specially the bis and the solo sections.. BTW, I'm not saying that it's not all a matter of tastes anyway, but that I'm surprise for the general opinion, which dislike this song so hard...

I don't get it either. Is it a 'by DT standards' kinda thing? Like is it not the kinda song you'd want or expect from DT? Personally, it was about the 4th or 5th song I'd heard from them (after being exposed to things like Pull Me Under, Honor Thy Father, Constant Motion and Panic Attack. - All good songs but apparently not enough to capture me and cause me to seek the band out further), but AROP was THE song that made me get the album and then start obsessively collecting and listening to everything DT related that I could. Whatever people don't like about it I can guess at, but the way I see it there's a lot more to like, it's a really tight and cohesive song, the composition felt like it was on another level compared to your generic/average metal song and I think that's what got me interested in exploring the band more. Something those other 4 songs I mentioned didn't quite achieve (although they got the bands foot in the door for me). But if A Rite of Passage didn't get 'recommended' to me on my media player at that specific moment in 09, I might still be ignoring this band. So from my point of view, it might just be the most important song the band ever wrote.  

[ToT-147]

the only one that no one has mentioned yet: A Rite of Passage.. I mean, what's so wrong with that song? I still don't get why do you hate it so much.... It's a nice song.. Maybe it doesn't have the best melody/riff intro, but then it's all good.. Specially the bis and the solo sections.. BTW, I'm not saying that it's not all a matter of tastes anyway, but that I'm surprise for the general opinion, which dislike this song so hard...

I don't get it either. Is it a 'by DT standards' kinda thing? Like is it not the kinda song you'd want or expect from DT? Personally, it was about the 4th or 5th song I'd heard from them (after being exposed to things like Pull Me Under, Honor Thy Father, Constant Motion and Panic Attack. - All good songs but apparently not enough to capture me and cause me to seek the band out further), but AROP was THE song that made me get the album and then start obsessively collecting and listening to everything DT related that I could. Whatever people don't like it about it I can guess at, but the way I see it there's a lot more to like, it's a really tight and cohesive song, the composition felt like it was on another level compared to your generic/average metal song and I think that's what got me interested in exploring the band more. Something those other 4 songs I mentioned didn't quite achieve (although they got the bands foot in the door for me). But if A Rite of Passage didn't get 'recommended' to me on my media player at that specific moment in 09, I might still be ignoring this band. So from my point of view, it might just be the most important song the band ever wrote.  

I'm really glad to read this.. 

[aprilethereal]

the only one that no one has mentioned yet: A Rite of Passage.. I mean, what's so wrong with that song? I still don't get why do you hate it so much.... It's a nice song.. Maybe it doesn't have the best melody/riff intro, but then it's all good.. Specially the bis and the solo sections.. BTW, I'm not saying that it's not all a matter of tastes anyway, but that I'm surprise for the general opinion, which dislike this song so hard...

I don't get it either. Is it a 'by DT standards' kinda thing? Like is it not the kinda song you'd want or expect from DT? Personally, it was about the 4th or 5th song I'd heard from them (after being exposed to things like Pull Me Under, Honor Thy Father, Constant Motion and Panic Attack. - All good songs but apparently not enough to capture me and cause me to seek the band out further), but AROP was THE song that made me get the album and then start obsessively collecting and listening to everything DT related that I could. Whatever people don't like it about it I can guess at, but the way I see it there's a lot more to like, it's a really tight and cohesive song, the composition felt like it was on another level compared to your generic/average metal song and I think that's what got me interested in exploring the band more. Something those other 4 songs I mentioned didn't quite achieve (although they got the bands foot in the door for me). But if A Rite of Passage didn't get 'recommended' to me on my media player at that specific moment in 09, I might still be ignoring this band. So from my point of view, it might just be the most important song the band ever wrote.  

I'm really glad to read this.. 

Well here's what I dislike about AROP:
- The main riff, its's really simplistic (which doesn't have to be a bad thing, but in this case, its's just boring right from the moment it starts).
- The verses. The shouting is ridiculous and the vocal melodies are pretty weak as well.
- The instrumental section is nothing special either and the riff that drives it is even more boring and simple than the intro riff.

The chorus is awesome though, and I also love the lead guitar in it.

[TheGreatPretender]

- The verses. The shouting is ridiculous and the vocal melodies are pretty weak as well.

This is my only problem with it. But it's one that brings the song down for me quite a bit. The second verse sounds so much better in comparison, with the melody and everything. But it's that first verse that just makes me not want to listen to the song, ever.

Everything else about it, I actually like. Not to say that if the first verse was better it would be one of my favorites, but certainly earn it a higher spot for me.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

AROP really only has its chorus going for it (which is actually pretty fantastic). Everything else, though, is either plain forgettable or uninteresting. The verses are kinda boring for me and the instrumental section is just so directionless and meandering, it's honestly pretty tough to sit through.

[hefdaddy42]

AROP is not necessarily bad, but there is nothing really good about it, either.  It just sort of sits there taking up space. 

[chaossystem]

"Rite" was the one that got my vote.

It seems to be the most universally-hated or at least disliked of all the songs on "Black Clouds," but I thought it would have a LITTLE bit of popularity.

Mostly because the video got played at least once during the last attempt (I think it was on VH1 Classic) to resurrect "Headbanger's Ball."

[BlobVanDam]

AROP is a great song, the only problem with it being the abrupt instrumental section.

[The Letter M]

"Rite" was the one that got my vote.

It seems to be the most universally-hated or at least disliked of all the songs on "Black Clouds," but I thought it would have a LITTLE bit of popularity.

Mostly because the video got played at least once during the last attempt (I think it was on VH1 Classic) to resurrect "Headbanger's Ball."

"least disliked"? I think you meant "least liked" because otherwise, "least disliked" would mean "most liked" lol Yay for double-negatives.

Anyways, as far as AROP goes, I don't hate it, but it's definitely my least favorite on the album. ANTR and TCOT stand out as amazing epics to me (warts and all), and "Wither" is one of the best short songs the band has done in ages (and the Brian May-inspired guitar solo also helps). "The Shattered Fortress" is an great wrap-up to the Twelve-Step Suite while "The Best Of Times" is a touching song, even with MP's oddly personal lyrics, it's got some great music. This sort of left AROP out in the field by itself for me, and while it's got some great parts, it's just kind of "there" and not really doing much for me.

-Marc.

[TheGreatPretender]

"least disliked"? I think you meant "least liked" because otherwise, "least disliked" would mean "most liked" lol Yay for double-negatives.

He said "at least". At least disliked. So the least is coupled with the "at" not the "disliked".

[The Letter M]

"least disliked"? I think you meant "least liked" because otherwise, "least disliked" would mean "most liked" lol Yay for double-negatives.

He said "at least". At least disliked. So the least is coupled with the "at" not the "disliked".

 

Whoops. I guess I can't read well today. My bad! Apologies to everyone all around.

Anyways, regarding AROP again, did anyone else feel like the band were trying too hard to come up with another metal single? I mean, "Constant Motion" was good, and even before that, songs like "Panic Attack" and "The Root Of All Evil" were pretty great as their 6-8 minute heavy rock/metal single-type song, but for some reason, AROP just never stacked up to those for me.

I guess I never got that idea out of my head when MP said the album was like having "a Dream Theater album with 'A Change of Seasons', 'Octavarium', 'Learning to Live', 'Pull Me Under' and 'The Glass Prison' all on one album." After the album came out, I likened TGP with TSF (obviously), 8VM to TCOT (the big epic), but when it came to PMU, it's obvious relation was AROP, and I wasn't sure how I felt about that. Perhaps hearing the video-edit early on sort of tainted my opinion of the song and I just didn't like it much then. When I go to listen to whole album, though, I find it OK, and it's not bad within the context of the whole album. I just don't go to listen to it actively without the rest of the album around it.

-Marc.

[hefdaddy42]

Anyways, regarding AROP again, did anyone else feel like the band were trying too hard to come up with another metal single?

I don't know.  Maybe.

[Fredo96993]

I like how the shorter the song, the fewer votes it gets!

[LordCost]

A Nightmare To Remember, one of my favourite DT songs

[TAC]

AROP is a great song, the only problem with it being the abrupt instrumental section.

It's the only decent part of the song!

For the record I went with YTCOT.
#2 for me is TBOT. Two standout tracks on this album.

[JiM-Xtreme]

Anyways, regarding AROP again, did anyone else feel like the band were trying too hard to come up with another metal single?

I don't know.  Maybe.

I think so. I specifically remember MP at the time saying that the plan was to have an album full of "epics" aside from two "singles" the label could use to promote the album.

To be honest, I can kind of hear that when I listen to the song. Aspects of it seem a little forced.

That's not to say I don't enjoy the song, though.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Nightmare 

[sylvinception]

It seems to me that this album is/was a "grower."

NO IT'S NOT.

[Lolzeez]

TCOT even though it's prob their worst epic. The rest of the album is pure bogus.

[chaossystem]

It seems to me that this album is/was a "grower."

NO IT'S NOT.

Then what IS it???