Which song from "Systematic Chaos" do YOU think sounds best? (Read carefully!)

[ToT-147]

I think the debate could be settled in this way:

On the (SC) album it is divided into two separate tracks.
Even if you change the order of the tracks on your cd player, or make a separate recording of it on another cd or a tape, they still play separately.

However on the "chaos in Motion" cd/dvd, they did play it was played and recorded as all one track.

So for those reasons-among others-I think everyone should be allowed their own opinion about it.

As I've already said, I voted for it as all one song, but left it open as an option for anyone to vote on it as they see it.

This exactly...

[hefdaddy42]

The only reason it was split at all into two parts is because, when putting together the album's tracklisting, they thought that the best opener was ITPOE, but the best closer was also ITPOE.  So they split it.

[BlobVanDam]

Why is this so hard to get? Hef is right, as usual.
ITPOE is one song. It was split into two parts on the album, but it was written and recorded as one song, and the vast majority of the time played as such (remember, even ACOS has been played split into parts, so that isn't an argument.)

[The Letter M]

Why is this so hard to get? Hef is right, as usual.
ITPOE is one song. It was split into two parts on the album, but it was written and recorded as one song, and the vast majority of the time played as such (remember, even ACOS has been played split into parts, so that isn't an argument.)

To dispel all arguments, here is what I believe is accepted by most DT fans:
"Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence" is one song, but eight tracks (also known as movements). Some of these have been played in pairs or trios.
"A Change Of Seasons" is also one song, but has seven movements, some (four?) of which have been played individually or in pairs.
"In The Presence Of Enemies" is one song, but was split to become two tracks. Much like Pink Floyd's "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" or The Flower Kings' "I Am The Sun", this 25-minute epic is split to bookend the album, mostly for reasons already stated (as it was a great opener AND closer, but also because the band/MP felt it would been too soon to have a single 25-minute track on an album again right after "Octavarium"). Like both ACOS and SDOIT, the song has been played live as a whole and released on an official live album as such, and all as one track.

EDIT - I'd also like to note that OTHER multi-movement songs/epics have been cut up before. On the SC Tour, they used the first movement of "Trial Of Tears", "I. It's Raining" (albeit truncated), to open their encore, "Schmedley Wilcox". To close the medley, they used the last movement of "Octavarium", "V. Razor's Edge". So ACOS, SDOIT and ITPOE aren't the only multi-movement epics that have had parts played apart from the whole song. In fact, even songs that don't have separate movements have been used in various medleys throughout DT's career, such as the "When Images And Words Unite" medley from the Scenes Tour (featured on the Through Her Eyes single).

While we're at it, "A Mind Beside Itself" is a suite, not a song, but it does have designated movements within the suite.
"Wait For Sleep" and "Learning To Live" are NOT one song, nor do they belong together like AMBI. They simply share a recurring melody (and the same goes for "Far From Heaven" and "Breaking All Illusions", as well as "Vacant" and "Stream Of Consciousness"). If this were the only basis to making two songs belong together as a suite, then practically ALL of Scenes From A Memory would be a single song considering many of the tracks share melodies, chord progressions, lyrics, etc. etc.
And the "Meta-Album" only goes from SFAM to 8VM and stops there - the ending sound of "The Count Of Tuscany" is NOT the opening sound of "On The Backs Of Angels".

*whew*...did I miss anything?

-Marc.

[BlobVanDam]

Looks like you covered just about everything.

[James Mypetgiress]

Ministry of Lost Souls.
I think that will probably be my final post for a while. I'm going far away, without a constant internet connection, so, I'll see you in 2015, friends

[ToT-147]

To dispel all arguments, here is what I believe is accepted by most DT fans:
"Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence" is one song, but eight tracks (also known as movements). Some of these have been played in pairs or trios.
"A Change Of Seasons" is also one song, but has seven movements, some (four?) of which have been played individually or in pairs.
"In The Presence Of Enemies" is one song, but was split to become two tracks. Much like Pink Floyd's "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" or The Flower Kings' "I Am The Sun", this 25-minute epic is split to bookend the album, mostly for reasons already stated (as it was a great opener AND closer, but also because the band/MP felt it would been too soon to have a single 25-minute track on an album again right after "Octavarium"). Like both ACOS and SDOIT, the song has been played live as a whole and released on an official live album as such, and all as one track.

EDIT - I'd also like to note that OTHER multi-movement songs/epics have been cut up before. On the SC Tour, they used the first movement of "Trial Of Tears", "I. It's Raining" (albeit truncated), to open their encore, "Schmedley Wilcox". To close the medley, they used the last movement of "Octavarium", "V. Razor's Edge". So ACOS, SDOIT and ITPOE aren't the only multi-movement epics that have had parts played apart from the whole song. In fact, even songs that don't have separate movements have been used in various medleys throughout DT's career, such as the "When Images And Words Unite" medley from the Scenes Tour (featured on the Through Her Eyes single).

While we're at it, "A Mind Beside Itself" is a suite, not a song, but it does have designated movements within the suite.
"Wait For Sleep" and "Learning To Live" are NOT one song, nor do they belong together like AMBI. They simply share a recurring melody (and the same goes for "Far From Heaven" and "Breaking All Illusions", as well as "Vacant" and "Stream Of Consciousness"). If this were the only basis to making two songs belong together as a suite, then practically ALL of Scenes From A Memory would be a single song considering many of the tracks share melodies, chord progressions, lyrics, etc. etc.
And the "Meta-Album" only goes from SFAM to 8VM and stops there - the ending sound of "The Count Of Tuscany" is NOT the opening sound of "On The Backs Of Angels".

*whew*...did I miss anything?

-Marc.

Nice written.. You're "The Letter" after all.. 

But yes, you did miss these ones:

       -The Mirror / Lie... They're definitely two separate songs, but, the questions would be: they're some sort of Suite? Or just two songs that continue each other but doesn't form a Suite?.. I think they're not a Suite, since this one should have a name, like "A Mind Beside Itself", or "The Twelve Step Suite"..

       -Burning My Soul / Hell's Kitchen / Lines in the Sand.. I know they have nothing to do with each other, lyrically, but they're also musically linked, like the movements 2 and 3 on ItPoE, or most of the SDoIT's (not from SS to AtC (reprise), e.g.).. So, they're a Suite?... I guess, again, they're not.. BUT, I'm starting to think that there should be a name for these cases..

       -False Awakinign Suite: this is something I have discussed in the past.. According to the very name of this track, should be considered as a Suite.. The thing is, it's not.. It's an instrumental track (not a song because there are not sing on it ), with three parts.. If it were considered as a Suite, then The Killing Hand, Trial of Tears, 8V, IT, etc, should be labeled the same way...

[TheGreatPretender]

Nice written.. You're "The Letter" after all.. 

But yes, you did miss these ones:

       -The Mirror / Lie... They're definitely two separate songs, but, the questions would be: they're some sort of Suite? Or just two songs that continue each other but doesn't form a Suite?.. I think they're not a Suite, since this one should have a name, like "A Mind Beside Itself", or "The Twelve Step Suite"..

This is how I see The Mirror and Lie:

-False Awakinign Suite: this is something I have discussed in the past.. According to the very name of this track, should be considered as a Suite.. The thing is, it's not.. It's an instrumental track (not a song because there are not sing on it ), with three parts.. If it were considered as a Suite, then The Killing Hand, Trial of Tears, 8V, IT, etc, should be labeled the same way...

Well, the thing about FAS is maybe they just felt like it was too short so there was no real point in splitting it. After all, it is divided into 3 very concise parts, and it's incredibly easy to see where one ends and the other begins, and even splitting them, they could all be listened to individually.
But also, given how short it is, it's almost an anti-suite, breaking all the rules of what a suite should be in a way... And people say DT aren't experimental anymore.


Anyway, when it comes to ITPOE, I still consider it two separate songs.

[ToT-147]

Yeah, Lie it's more like a "son", instead of being just a "song".. 

Something alike Hell's Kitchen, being the non-evil twin of BMS.. As "Beautiful Agony" is for "ANtR", though that is not a separate song.. They're just siamese twins..

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah, Lie it's more like a "son", instead of being just a "song".. 

Something alike Hell's Kitchen, being the non-evil twin of BMS.. As "Beautiful Agony" is for "ANtR", though that is not a separate song.. They're just siamese twins..

Hell's Kitchen is more like if you were to cut an earthworm in half, and then the half that was cut off became its own separate earth worm, and they both continued to live independent of each other. 

[The Letter M]

Yeah, Lie it's more like a "son", instead of being just a "song".. 

Something alike Hell's Kitchen, being the non-evil twin of BMS.. As "Beautiful Agony" is for "ANtR", though that is not a separate song.. They're just siamese twins..

Hell's Kitchen is more like if you were to cut an earthworm in half, and then the half that was cut off became its own separate earth worm, and they both continued to live independent of each other. 

This is a pretty good analogy. The same is very true for "The Mirror", especially if you listen to the original 10-minute demo, which has a good chunk of what became "Lie". The band made it it's own separate song, and they did pretty much the same thing with the instrumental section of the 1996 version of "Burning My Soul" and made it into "Hell's Kitchen", with a complete ending that cross-fades into the opening of "Lines In The Sand".

-Marc.

[TheGreatPretender]

This is a pretty good analogy. The same is very true for "The Mirror", especially if you listen to the original 10-minute demo, which has a good chunk of what became "Lie". The band made it it's own separate song, and they did pretty much the same thing with the instrumental section of the 1996 version of "Burning My Soul" and made it into "Hell's Kitchen", with a complete ending that cross-fades into the opening of "Lines In The Sand".

-Marc.

Is the demo version what they had originally? Because I thought it was really weird that the chunk at the end actually had the structure of Lie (almost), but they had no intention of putting lyrics to it? It actually sounded like they were already developing it into a "song structure" before eventually cutting it away into its own track.