Which song from "Systematic Chaos" do YOU think sounds best? (Read carefully!)

[chaossystem]

ITPoE, pt. 3-6???

[The Letter M]

ITPoE, pt. 3-6???

I believe they meant the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Movements of the song, or rather "Part 2" of the piece.

-Marc.

[chaossystem]

You might be right.

But I was was ALSO thinking that it was meant SARCASTICALLY.

As in they were talking about a non-existent FOLLOW-UP to the original ItPoE (Parts 1 AND 2).

[lithium112]

You might be right.

But I was was ALSO thinking that it was meant SARCASTICALLY.

As in they were talking about a non-existent FOLLOW-UP to the original ItPoE (Parts 1 AND 2).

Have you EVER considered that when you EMPHASIZE a lot of WORDS the effectiveness of the emphasis is lost?

[chaossystem]

uuuuhhhh...

OKAY!

SORRY ABOUT THAT!!!!

[ToT-147]

ITPoE, pt. 3-6???

I believe they meant the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Movements of the song, or rather "Part 2" of the piece.

-Marc.

Yeah, right.. That's what I meant.. The name of the song it's not "In the Presence of Enemies - Part 2".. Both songs, the opening and closing track are called the same way.. ("ItPoE").. So I've always called to the first one "ItPoE pt 1-2", and the second "ItPoE pt 3-6"..

I was ALSO thinking that it was meant SARCASTICALLY.

As in they were talking about a non-existent FOLLOW-UP to the original ItPoE (Parts 1 AND 2).

That's funny.. I never thought of it like that.. 
It was just me anyway..
Maybe next time I should said just "Track 8" from SC...

[TheGreatPretender]

ITPoE, pt. 3-6???

I believe they meant the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Movements of the song, or rather "Part 2" of the piece.

-Marc.

Yeah, right.. That's what I meant.. The name of the song it's not "In the Presence of Enemies - Part 2".. Both songs, the opening and closing track are called the same way.. ("ItPoE").. So I've always called to the first one "ItPoE pt 1-2", and the second "ItPoE pt 3-6"..

I was ALSO thinking that it was meant SARCASTICALLY.

As in they were talking about a non-existent FOLLOW-UP to the original ItPoE (Parts 1 AND 2).

That's funny.. I never thought of it like that.. 
It was just me anyway..
Maybe next time I should said just "Track 8" from SC...

Or maybe it's a sign that we need a sequel to ITPOE on the next album.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah, right.. That's what I meant.. The name of the song it's not "In the Presence of Enemies - Part 2".. Both songs, the opening and closing track are called the same way.. ("ItPoE").. So I've always called to the first one "ItPoE pt 1-2", and the second "ItPoE pt 3-6"..

What? That's not correct. The tracks are called, respectively, In The Presence of Enemies Part I and In The Presence of Enemies Part II. I'm not sure why you're suggesting otherwise?

[The Letter M]

Yeah, right.. That's what I meant.. The name of the song it's not "In the Presence of Enemies - Part 2".. Both songs, the opening and closing track are called the same way.. ("ItPoE").. So I've always called to the first one "ItPoE pt 1-2", and the second "ItPoE pt 3-6"..

What? That's not correct. The tracks are called, respectively, In The Presence of Enemies Part I and In The Presence of Enemies Part II. I'm not sure why you're suggesting otherwise?

This is right - the tracks (as per the official album) are titled "In The Presence Of Enemies, Part 1" and "In The Presence Of Enemies, Part 2" for the opening and closing tracks respectively. The song (especially as a whole) is just called "In The Presence Of Enemies", which itself doesn't have 6 parts, but it does have 6 movements (the typically universal term for the numbered section of a longer song/epic, used with songs like "A Change Of Seasons", "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence" and "Illumination Theory"), which all have their own names/titles.

-Marc.

[puppyonacid]

ITPoE, pt. 3-6???

Dammit! You TOLD people to READ CAREFULLY!

Obviously THEY didn't read THE part where YOU said to READ carefully CAREFULLY enough!

[?]

Since you offered the option, I went with ITPOE Pt 1.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, right.. That's what I meant.. The name of the song it's not "In the Presence of Enemies - Part 2".. Both songs, the opening and closing track are called the same way.. ("ItPoE").. So I've always called to the first one "ItPoE pt 1-2", and the second "ItPoE pt 3-6"..

What? That's not correct. The tracks are called, respectively, In The Presence of Enemies Part I and In The Presence of Enemies Part II. I'm not sure why you're suggesting otherwise?

This.  Just confusion.

[TheGreatPretender]

This is right - the tracks (as per the official album) are titled "In The Presence Of Enemies, Part 1" and "In The Presence Of Enemies, Part 2" for the opening and closing tracks respectively. The song (especially as a whole) is just called "In The Presence Of Enemies", which itself doesn't have 6 parts, but it does have 6 movements (the typically universal term for the numbered section of a longer song/epic, used with songs like "A Change Of Seasons", "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence" and "Illumination Theory"), which all have their own names/titles.

-Marc.

Although if you ask me, the moment they split it into two parts, they turned it into two separate songs. Each one works extremely well all by itself, even if they do make a better whole.

[ToT-147]

The tracks are called, respectively, In The Presence of Enemies Part I and In The Presence of Enemies Part II.

This is right - the tracks (as per the official album) are titled "In The Presence Of Enemies, Part 1" and "In The Presence Of Enemies, Part 2" for the opening and closing tracks respectively. The song (especially as a whole) is just called "In The Presence Of Enemies", which itself doesn't have 6 parts, but it does have 6 movements (the typically universal term for the numbered section of a longer song/epic, used with songs like "A Change Of Seasons", "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence" and "Illumination Theory"), which all have their own names/titles.

-Marc.

I checked it out.. That's right.. Don't know why I always thought of it like that.. Perhaps I saw in some place the both "In the Presence of Enemies" in tracks 1 and 8 respectively.. Not sure..

Although if you ask me, the moment they split it into two parts, they turned it into two separate songs.

Anyway, this is also correct.. So, since we're being so specifics, we should have to call to the whole two songs, a Suite.. Shouldn't we?

I mean, like TTSS.. TGP, TDS, Repentance, TRoAE and TSF are all different songs by themselves, have "movements" and they represent a continuation.. With ItPoE, the only difference would be that both songs are in the same album..

[TheGreatPretender]

But with a suite, doesn't it usually follow one another, like with AMBI? They bookended the album with the two halves, which is something... Frankly, something very different that I haven't really seen before, even from DT. But yeah, I don't know what to call it. Would it still be a suite if it's separated like that?

[hefdaddy42]

No.  It's one song with two parts.

[ToT-147]

Maybe.. Maybe not... The sure thing it's they're two separate tracks...

The problem with saying that just because they continue musically each other, and have these movements in ascending numerical order (from I to VI), that doesn't imply that it's a single song.. If it would, then should be correct to say that 8V (the eighth track of the album 8V) and TRoAE are one song, because, in the same way, they continue musically each other, and have these movements in ascending numerical order (from I to VII)...

OR, maybe I digress..

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I'm pretty sure it's one song because the band have always considered it one song. It doesn't really have to get complicated.

[TheGreatPretender]

Maybe.. Maybe not... The sure thing it's they're two separate tracks...

The problem with saying that just because they continue musically each other, and have these movements in ascending numerical order (from I to VI), that doesn't imply that it's a single song.. If it would, then should be correct to say that 8V (the eighth track of the album 8V) and TRoAE are one song, because, in the same way, they continue musically each other, and have these movements in ascending numerical order (from I to VII)...

OR, maybe I digress..

Well, the 12 Step Suite is referred to as just that, a suite, right, because it's meant to be put together at the end. But really, each track, each song does keep counting up from 1 to 12. But that doesn't make them one SONG...

Although I feel like that does answer my question about ITPOE. Being separated, it can still count as a suite.

[hefdaddy42]

Maybe.. Maybe not... The sure thing it's they're two separate tracks...

The problem with saying that just because they continue musically each other, and have these movements in ascending numerical order (from I to VI), that doesn't imply that it's a single song.. If it would, then should be correct to say that 8V (the eighth track of the album 8V) and TRoAE are one song, because, in the same way, they continue musically each other, and have these movements in ascending numerical order (from I to VII)...

OR, maybe I digress..

It's one song.

The only reason it was split at all into two parts is because, when putting together the album's tracklisting, they thought that the best opener was ITPOE, but the best closer was also ITPOE.  So they split it.

Whenever they played it live (with, I think, one or two exceptions), they played it as one song.  It was always one song.

It's one song.

[TheGreatPretender]

Just like SDOIT is one song.

[hefdaddy42]

Just like SDOIT is one song.

Yes.

[ToT-147]

Whenever they played it live (with, I think, one or two exceptions), they played it as one song.  It was always one song.

Not just one or two... Check it out.. They played "part 1 only" a lot of times..

https://www.setlist.fm/stats/songs/dream-theater-bd6a102.html?song=In+the+Presence+of+Enemies

So, you're saying that in all these occasions, they only played half of a song?...

Just like SDOIT is one song.

I still don't agree with this... I mean: SDoIT is one song.. ItPoE are two...

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

They've played sections of SDOIT individually. I think they've also done that with parts of ACOS, haven't they? And yet those are still single songs.

[TheGreatPretender]

They've played sections of SDOIT individually. I think they've also done that with parts of ACOS, haven't they? And yet those are still single songs.

Depends on who you ask. Some people see all the parts of SDOIT as separate songs, and I wouldn't call them wrong. The fact that Solitary Shell and Test That Stumped Them All exist as "single edits" pretty much makes them completely valid as separate songs in my book.

[JiM-Xtreme]

You can call them songs, you can call them parts of songs. Does it really matter? Whichever way you look at it, DT have performed "parts" of songs in isolation before... just look at OIALT. There, you have several movements of ACOS all scattered throughout the show, over two sets of music. There's also Puppies on Acid, which is just the intro to the Mirror. I believe they abbreviated some other songs too, like Scarred... although I'm not sure if they actually played it that way on the night or if it was just clever editing that made it apparently segue into The Darkest of Winters.

At the end of the day, it's their music. They can break it up or put it together how they want. How you label it is entirely up to each individual.

[TheGreatPretender]

You can call them songs, you can call them parts of songs. Does it really matter?

If it doesn't, then my saying ITPOE is two songs is no more and no less correct than Hef saying it's one song.

[chaossystem]

When I put the poll together, I just wanted to give anyone who participated the option to vote for ItPoE in all THREE ways.

I voted for it as all one song.

Some people prefer one part of it over the other.

I don't care if anyone else has a PREFERENCE for part one or part two, but I was sure that people would want that option.

[hefdaddy42]

Whenever they played it live (with, I think, one or two exceptions), they played it as one song.  It was always one song.

Not just one or two... Check it out.. They played "part 1 only" a lot of times..

https://www.setlist.fm/stats/songs/dream-theater-bd6a102.html?song=In+the+Presence+of+Enemies

So, you're saying that in all these occasions, they only played half of a song?...

Unless I am misreading something, those are stats for In The Presence of Enemies.  I didn't see anything there about Pt. 1.

I can't speak for the accuracy of setlist.com (although I have found numerous inaccuracies).  But I just went over all of the setlists for the entire Chaos In Motion tour.  It was a quick read, but they played the whole thing together the overwhelming majority of the time.  The only times I saw that they only played Pt. 1 was on the Progressive Nation leg of the tour, which had shorter setlists.  I counted about 10 times on that leg of the tour that they only played Pt. 1.  Virtually every other time they played the song (which was a LOT) they played the whole thing.

I still don't agree with this... I mean: SDoIT is one song.. ItPoE are two...

SDOIT is one song.  ITPOE is one song.

[TheGreatPretender]

SDOIT is one song.  ITPOE is one song.

AMBI is one song. 

[ToT-147]

Whenever they played it live (with, I think, one or two exceptions), they played it as one song.  It was always one song.

Not just one or two... Check it out.. They played "part 1 only" a lot of times..

https://www.setlist.fm/stats/songs/dream-theater-bd6a102.html?song=In+the+Presence+of+Enemies

So, you're saying that in all these occasions, they only played half of a song?...

Unless I am misreading something, those are stats for In The Presence of Enemies.  I didn't see anything there about Pt. 1.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that you must enter the links to see the "evidence"..

I can't speak for the accuracy of setlist.com (although I have found numerous inaccuracies).  But I just went over all of the setlists for the entire Chaos In Motion tour.  It was a quick read, but they played the whole thing together the overwhelming majority of the time.  The only times I saw that they only played Pt. 1 was on the Progressive Nation leg of the tour, which had shorter setlists.  I counted about 10 times on that leg of the tour that they only played Pt. 1.  Virtually every other time they played the song (which was a LOT) they played the whole thing.

All this is right.. But you didn't see the 17th times they played "ItPoE" in 2009, on the Black Clouds Tour... All those times they actually played only Part 1, as the opening song, before they changed it for ANtR.. So, I think that thirty times are more than just one or two..

In fact, I guess this https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/searchresults.asp?criteria=In+the+presence+of+enemies&in=song# is a more appropriate, accurate and comfortable site to show the times these songs () were played, when together, when just the Part 1, and when just the Part 2 (I didn't knew about that.. About this date: https://www.mikeportnoy.com/dates/tourography/?show=990 They actually played the Part 1, then six other songs, and finally the Part 2, right before the encore, SW)..

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, I forgot that they played it on the BC&SL tour.  But it is still one song.

[chaossystem]

I think the debate could be settled in this way:

On the (SC) album it is divided into two separate tracks.
Even if you change the order of the tracks on your cd player, or make a separate recording of it on another cd or a tape, they still play separately.

However on the the "chaos in Motion" cd/dvd, they did play it was played and recorded as all one track.

So for those reasons-among others-I think everyone should be allowed their own opinion about it.

As I've already said, I voted for it as all one song, but left it open as an option for anyone to vote on it as they see it.

[Dave_Manchester]

An underrated and oft-maligned gem of an album, I love this one, I think it's a lot of daft, exuberant fun, something I don't always assoociate with DT. Voted for Presence Part 1, and I'll lend my voice to those who don't think this is one track. But that's all I'll say on that subject because...well, it's an issue with no correct answer.

OP, put my mind at rest here mate...did you make all these polls after seeing the identical ones (I titled them a bit differently, it should be said) I recently did on Portnoy's forum? It's totally fine, but I'm just wondering if this is one of the most extreme cases of coincidence, or if you did all this after seeing the MP ones?

[AngelBack]

At first I voted TMOLS because it is a top 10 DT song for me.  But after reading the post carefully, I went with TMOLS.