Steven Wilson v. To. The. Bone.

[KevShmev]

I don't understand why Wilson always tries to pass off "prog" as "jazz". Does he really hate the p-word that much? His albums are prog. GFD is prog, not jazz. If you showed it to a prog fan they'd be like "that's prog" and if you showed it to a jazz fan they'd say "that's prog".

That's not what he is doing.  He never says his music is straight jazz, but at times, there are elements reminiscent of jazz - his keyboard player after all used to work with Miles Davis - and I think his point is that those are elements in his music that he probably couldn't have done with PT.  I don't think he's ever denied that his solo work is prog. 

[King Postwhore]

I think you missing a word Skeever.  He's always said influenced.   It doesn't mean straight up jazz.  He'said always wore prog on his sleeve with many other styles.

Hell, 80's synth pop being another he's talked about of late. 

[rumborak]

I can't blame him for staying away from the p-word as far as possible. That genre overall has vultures circling over it, it's stagnant and repetitive.

[Skeever]

I have been following the guy for about 15 years, and he always has avoided the p-word. This is really nothing new, but emphasizing "jazz" is just the newest way he seems to creatively find other words to call his prog rock. The fact is Raven and GfD were albums where he maybe increased the 70s prog influences by 100% and the jazz influences by 5%, but reading interviews with the man you would get the impression he feels like he's made a jazz album.

[King Postwhore]

Durring the GfD promotion he talked about the jazz influence for all his interviews and it was a big reason he asked Adam Holman to play on his albums with his jazz background.

Even though Adam did not play on GfD, he was asked to join specifically because of Steven's leaning to a jazzier side.

[bout to crash]

He never said he made a jazz album, he's just more jazz influence, which is why he hired a guy who played with Miles.

However I have noticed that he has changed a bit as a person, something noticeable in interviews and live shows, and I'm not sure if all of it is for the best. It's great that he's coming out of his shell, enjoying talking to the audience more, but it does feel a bit scripted. With some bands like Opeth, I have read about various live shows and the banter between songs, and a lot of it seems very spontaneous. You had to be there, and in the right moment something unique was said. Reading about SW concerts, he has pretty much said the same things on all shows, with maybe a few very minor differences. I also don't like it when he bashes PT. Even if he feels the way he does, it does feel like a stab in the heart, being a PT/SW fan, to hear him say all the negative stuff about his former band. Fine if you prefer doing your solo thing, but there's no need to throw those jabs at PT.

I agree with the "scripted" thing... but perhaps it's because he's sort of socially awkward and doesn't want to sound stupid. I dunno, just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Also, when we come up with something we really like as part of he "narrative" of who we are, we tend to stick with it and keep telling the same story. There's my psych/counseling background input for the day 

As for your thoughts on him "bashing" PT, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. In this interview he goes into some clear pros/cons of being in a "democratic" band, and just says it's not for him (and that all of the members had other stuff they wanted to do). You've been very vocal on here about your preference for PT's material over his solo stuff- maybe that has something to do with it? Because although it sucks to think PT won't really be an "item" again, there was nothing he said in this interview (or any that I can remember) that I found out of line or bashing. He's just being honest about where things are at.

[KevShmev]

Exactly, Jackie.

I think Zantera likes to fabricate these things in his head, since he's as bad now at bashing SW as I was with DT back in the mid 00s.   I can recognize the symptoms. 

SW clearly likes being in charge and free to let his creativity run wild without constraints, and PT had reached a pointed where that was no longer possible, so he has opted to go on his own as a solo artist so can he do it. 

[orcus116]

Was PT more of a complete and equal band over their last few albums or was it still Steven Wilson with a consistent group of regulars? I still get the feeling that Wilson still wrote and came up with a majority of the music but left it up the rest of the band to fill in the gaps. It seems like almost the same with the solo projects outside of the rotating members. I could be way off base though.

[King Postwhore]

I would say in the latter years of PT, Steven was totally in xharge.  I think the guys wanted to be more involved and this lead Steven to do his solo music to have no backlash.  He is in charge.  A few years ago, I remember him being out voted on releasing Octane Twisted and that won't happen now.

[KevShmev]

I suspect a big part of it, too, was SW knowing that certain members of the band didn't like this or that (not just jazz), and it kept him from bringing ideas he had to the table, because he knew they wouldn't go over well with some of the others, and that had to be frustrating for a guy as creative as him, to not have the free reign to express yourself within your own band, especially one you created. That could be why The Incident sounded like a mish-mash of nearly all of the styles PT had done previously; it sounds a bit like SW was writing to fit what he felt PT had become, instead of letting the writing flow naturally. He now has free reign to do whatever he wants.

[King Postwhore]

And in that recent interview he's said that.  He likes the flexibility he didn't have in PT.

[Zantera]

As for your thoughts on him "bashing" PT, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. In this interview he goes into some clear pros/cons of being in a "democratic" band, and just says it's not for him (and that all of the members had other stuff they wanted to do). You've been very vocal on here about your preference for PT's material over his solo stuff- maybe that has something to do with it? Because although it sucks to think PT won't really be an "item" again, there was nothing he said in this interview (or any that I can remember) that I found out of line or bashing. He's just being honest about where things are at.

In this interview I fully agree with you, he talked about PT without being too negative. But in earlier interviews (not too long ago) he has said things like "Why would I go back to PT?" and talking about how much he is over some of that material. Heck, he even said something during a recent live show when they cranked out How is Your Life Today, how "I could never have played this with PT".

As for the preference PT vs SW, I honestly don't feel biased either way. GfD and Insurgentes are among the best albums SW has done as far as I'm concerned, and I would take both over most of the PT albums in a heart beat.

[Zantera]

As for Kev's comment, I have rated both HCE and Raven at around 7.5/8 out of 10 and said that I liked/enjoyed both albums, which apparently counts as "bad bashing".

[KevShmev]

I didn't say your bashing was about those albums specifically.  Your praise of him nowadays always comes with a "Yeah but...", and the implication that he now bashes PT, when he does no such thing, reminds me of how I used to pick nits about Dream Theater, until I reached that "Why do I keep ripping one of my favorite bands for piddly little things?" moment.  It is much more fun being a fan when you enjoy things and focus on the positive.  I realized that...eventually; hopefully you will someday, too. 

[King Postwhore]

I understand that there's a certain style that Jimmy loves by SW.  Steven changes so much stylistically that it will come back at some point. While us older farts love this direction better thanks his first solo album.

[KevShmev]

To me, it's so hard to pick that one favorite style of SW's.  Lightbulb Sun and Deadwing are my two favorite PT albums, and they are from different eras, and I'd put up there with them, The Raven, which isn't that much like either of those stylistically.  He just does many styles very well.  I like Insurgentes a ton, as well, but if I look solely at the PT/SW new albums since I became a fan around 2004, which totals seven (DW, Fear, The Incident, Insurgentes, Grace, Raven and Hand), Insurgentes is the one I have listened to by far the least.  The Incident would probably be my 2nd least, which sounds odds to me at first since I was obsessed with it for much of 2009 and 2010, but I haven't listened to it that much the last few years, especially when compared to the other PT/SW albums. 

[King Postwhore]

I'm with you Kev.  It's what I love about SW.  He never sits still while putting an effort to his craft like no other.  It's inspiring.

[Zantera]

I don't know, I feel like being nuanced in your criticism and opinions is always good no matter what topic it is, and it adds some validity to your opinion. If you blindly buy everything and praise everything, to me that's hard to take seriously. But if you can point out what you don't like and what you do like, then hey, you do have some sort of quality control or preferences. I guess it depends on how you are as a person. When I was younger I definitely used to auto-buy albums before they even came out, and in retrospect I feel bad about that. Being a fan of something is great, but I can never get behind that blind fanboyism of always having to defend everything. Even the best musicians have slightly weaker moments, even if those can be good too. I just can't get behind that mentality of "everything is awesome", but that's me.

SW has definitely taken some jabs at PT, but I can also understand it partially, because he's still getting asked about a project that died 5 years ago, when all he wants to do is his solo thing. In this most recent review, he definitely had a more "mature" stance on it, unlike some earlier reviews where he has sounded frustrated and annoyed about the questions. It's hard to blame him, his last experiences of PT includes The Incident, an album he wasn't overly happy with (in retrospect), and a live album he didn't want to release, which got released without his consent. As a solo artist, he can do whatever he wants.

He was definitely more restricted in PT, but I think that can be both good and bad. He definitely has solo songs that would have benefited from being more restrained, perhaps a bit more polished and done the "PT way", but he also has songs like Raider II, that is just pure perfection, and would have been ruined if it had been given the same treatment. The guy has so many influences, so many things he wants to try, he will hit many of them out of the park, but also have some misses. It's only natural.

[King Postwhore]

Well his quality has been so good Jimmy at least in my eyes, it's hard to criticize.   I can be so much more critical on other bands.  I personally love the run Steven has been on.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

SW has definitely taken some jabs at PT, but I can also understand it partially, because he's still getting asked about a project that died 5 years ago, when all he wants to do is his solo thing.

I've honestly never heard him say anything I would interpret as a "jab" at PT.

In this most recent review, he definitely had a more "mature" stance on it, unlike some earlier reviews where he has sounded frustrated and annoyed about the questions. It's hard to blame him, his last experiences of PT includes The Incident, an album he wasn't overly happy with (in retrospect), and a live album he didn't want to release, which got released without his consent. As a solo artist, he can do whatever he wants.

I'd think it's more likely that he's simply frustrated of having to answer the same questions repeatedly for years when he's been pretty clear about his stance on it.

[KevShmev]

Well his quality has been so good Jimmy at least in my eyes, it's hard to criticize.   I can be so much more critical on other bands.  I personally love the run Steven has been on.

This.  It's not my fault that nearly everything he releases is great.   And I am not one to shy away from criticizing a favorite (see: my dt.net/DTF activity for much of the 00s ), but in the case of SW, even the least best stuff he releases is usually pretty great.  Since becoming a fan, if I include Blackfield and Storm Corrosion to the PT and SW solo mix, the 3rd and 4th Blackfield records were probably the only two I didn't gush over at some point, and it's not like I didn't like those; they were just solid, not noteworthy (SW's limited involvement in the 4th aside).

[Skeever]

I know a guy who knows Guthrie Govan, and apparently Wilson is a real boss to be around, hence why Wilson went on the tour without Marco or Govan who were already going to be busy touring with the Aristrocrats. From what I understand neither guy are upset about this, but understand that's just how it is. Wilson is very particular about his music, and needs to be the boss. Despite what some people think, there was likely some politics involved with PT, even if Wilson had major sway over most creative decisions. Wilson said as much on the tour when he brought out How is Your Life Today?

I for one am starting to see how unchecked Wilson is something to be a bit concerned about. Honestly, it wasn't HCE that made me realize this, but the HCE show. While I loved it, there were certain aspects that I found absolutely frustrating: the scripted and quite pretentious stage banter, the heavy amount of backtracking, and just how "on the rails" the entire night felt. Honestly, it is the same exact critique I have for post-Portnoy DT.

[KevShmev]

Regarding How Is Your Life Today?, I could see some members having a problem with solo spots like that (since that song would mostly be Wilson singing and likely playing the piano himself), feeling that it takes away from the band experience, but that is kind of crazy to me.  When you look at bands like Radiohead and Muse, it is always awesome when Yorke or Bellamy sit down at the piano to do a song by themselves. 

As for being bossy, most musical geniuses, of which I am calling Wilson, tend to be pretty particular about how their music sounds and is presented, so he is no different than someone like Bowie or Peter Gabriel in that regard.  Some musicians are meant to be in bands and be followers, and some are meant to be leaders who follow their own path, others be damned.

[rumborak]

Skeever, you must have witnessed Steven on an unfortunate off night. In Boston the banter was very natural I felt.
And yeah, I think he's similar to Frank Zappa (one of his heroes) in his control over the product.

[bout to crash]

^True that. I doubt SW is as much of a control freak as FZ was, but I definitely wouldn't want to work for either of them 

[seasonsinthesky]

Any fans of Unreleased Electronic Music Vol. 1 here? I just realized "Observer Commercial 1998" is an enormous Massive Attack ripoff (of "Inertia Creeps")! I wonder if they specifically asked him to do that...

[KevShmev]

Deform to Form a Star on a rainy, somewhat chilly day is so good. 

[King Postwhore]

Deform to Form a Star on a rainy, somewhat chilly day is so good. 

Totally agree.  I feel the same with Drive Home when driving in the dark.

[Sacul]

Any fans of Unreleased Electronic Music Vol. 1 here? I just realized "Observer Commercial 1998" is an enormous Massive Attack ripoff (of "Inertia Creeps")! I wonder if they specifically asked him to do that...

Well, it's quite similar, but I don't think it really is somewhere near a ripoff. It's just an experiment Steven did, and lasts around a minute against 6 mins of the Mezzanine tune.

[mike099]

Deform to Form a Star on a rainy, somewhat chilly day is so good. 

Totally agree.  I feel the same with Drive Home when driving in the dark.

 Drive Home is an awesome song!  One of my favorite solos.

[KevShmev]

Deform to Form a Star on a rainy, somewhat chilly day is so good. 

Totally agree.  I feel the same with Drive Home when driving in the dark.

Hell yeah! It's been rainy and unseasonably not warm lately here in St. Louis, so SW has been getting most of the love this week on my car stereo.

[Tom Bombadil]

Deform to Form a Star is great anytime, anywhere.

[XB0BX]

What SW/PT albums have liner notes? So far the only ones I've seen are Up the Downstair (CD/DVD version) and Stars Die.

Also, I have purchased a number of 2 disc CD/DVDA 5.1 mix versions. Do the songs sound any better if playing the DVD versions on a TV with no 5.1 surround sound system? Or is the sound quality identical to the CDs? I do not own a 5.1 system.

Final question: Is 5.1 worth? Anyone have a good guide for how to create a good setup?

[KevShmev]

Deform to Form a Star is great anytime, anywhere.

That is true, but certain weather can definitely enhance particular songs and/or artists, at least for me.  SW is great rainy day music.

[Sacul]

Also, I have purchased a number of 2 disc CD/DVDA 5.1 mix versions. Do the songs sound any better if playing the DVD versions on a TV with no 5.1 surround sound system? Or is the sound quality identical to the CDs? I do not own a 5.1 system.

Normally, Steven's mixes come in these ways: normal CD, and a DVD or BluRay which have both 2.0 (stereo) and 5.1 high definition mixes. Even if you don't have a surround setup, you can definitely enjoy the high-resolution stereo mix, which sounds better to a normal CD. You can even rip it to your computer if you're audiophile like me .