Author Topic: Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)  (Read 437367 times)

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Offline krands85

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1820 on: March 22, 2017, 11:42:54 AM »
Yeah I'll be expecting a lot more from Visions and Aquarius. The promoters of tomorrow's show in Glasgow have said it's a 1hr 45 set, so there should still be space for some of the newer stuff too.

They played Visions the last time I saw them, so I'm hoping for Celestial Elixir instead. Would love to see The Architect and 1985 too.
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Online Evermind

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1821 on: March 22, 2017, 11:43:12 AM »
I've really come around on Visions (the song) and think it might be their best long epic yet.  I think it is more consistently great than Celestial Elixir, which has that bad ass instrumental section, but is merely good the rest of the way, IMO.  Visions is a great listen from start to finish.

However, I am still struggling to get into any of the other songs from the Visions CD.

I'm totally on the opposite side here. I think the instrumental section is the weakest part of Celestial Elixir. I absolutely love every part with the vocals, but the instrumental section is just alright.

And I really can't get into Visions (the song) at all. My least favourite epic by them, and I actually prefer Nocturnal Conspiracy, Shapeshifter and Deathless to it.
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Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1822 on: March 22, 2017, 11:53:40 AM »
Yeah, but this is a separate tour celebrating their 10th anniversary and the recent reissue of their first two albums, so I would expect a fairly different setlist from the above, with a bit more of their older stuff worked in.

Totally forgot about that. I might be in for a Visions encore after all then  :metal

If they are doing a 1hour 45 minute set then I am cautiously optimistic. Think I will be just playing this band on repeat until Saturday.

Offline krands85

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1823 on: March 22, 2017, 12:10:18 PM »
Yeah, but this is a separate tour celebrating their 10th anniversary and the recent reissue of their first two albums, so I would expect a fairly different setlist from the above, with a bit more of their older stuff worked in.

Totally forgot about that. I might be in for a Visions encore after all then  :metal

If they are doing a 1hour 45 minute set then I am cautiously optimistic. Think I will be just playing this band on repeat until Saturday.
Take that set time with a pinch of salt, it might depend on the venue. I've just noticed that there's a club night on at the venue in Glasgow tomorrow, meaning the curfew for the gig is 10pm, instead of the usual 11pm. The doors are opening 30 minutes earlier than usual, but with 2 support bands, it'll be a squeeze to get 1hr45 from Haken. I'll be raging if we get a shorter set than in other places - exactly the same thing happened the last time they came to Scotland and Crystallised got cut from the set  :censored :'(
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1824 on: March 22, 2017, 12:54:03 PM »
Yeah, all you guys talking about the epics are forgetting that Crystallised > all.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1825 on: March 22, 2017, 02:13:09 PM »
For fans of "Visions" (the song), here's a video made by French Horn player Marc Papeghin, known for doing covers of Dream Theater, Haken, Neal Morse music, as well as video game (Final Fantasy) and film scores.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSFtMPalklo

It's an excellent video for just being a pieced-together mish-mash of various films and other works. Definitely fits the mood of the song.

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Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1826 on: March 22, 2017, 02:25:14 PM »
For fans of "Visions" (the song), here's a video made by French Horn player Marc Papeghin, known for doing covers of Dream Theater, Haken, Neal Morse music, as well as video game (Final Fantasy) and film scores.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSFtMPalklo

It's an excellent video for just being a pieced-together mish-mash of various films and other works. Definitely fits the mood of the song.

-Marc.

I've seen this before and it is so well put together. I have literally used this to try to get friends into Haken.....so far it hasn't worked  :lol

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1827 on: March 22, 2017, 05:24:52 PM »
Yeah, all you guys talking about the epics are forgetting that Crystallised > all.

Why I would forget something so inaccurate?  :P


I'm totally on the opposite side here. I think the instrumental section is the weakest part of Celestial Elixir. I absolutely love every part with the vocals, but the instrumental section is just alright.

 :eek :eek :eek

To each his own. :biggrin:

Offline aprilethereal

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1828 on: March 22, 2017, 11:34:05 PM »
Well according to setlist.fm, the anniversary tour is basically the Affinity tour with a shorter setlist and a medley. Needless to say I'm pretty disappointed :(

Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1829 on: March 23, 2017, 01:28:52 AM »
Well according to setlist.fm, the anniversary tour is basically the Affinity tour with a shorter setlist and a medley. Needless to say I'm pretty disappointed :(

Yea, I'm pretty disappointed about that  :yeahright here's hoping they rotate the set a lot on this tour. Are they a band that's known to do that sort of thing or not?

Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1830 on: March 23, 2017, 01:31:58 AM »
With Affinity being out for almost a year, by now I think it's their best album. The Mountain was a huge accomplishment, but Affinity is even more compact in structure and sound. They tried something completely new with the inclusion of the 80s sounds but it's only a gimmick and doesn't have any influence on the compositions. Also I think it's very good that the whole band was involved with the songwriting this time. I suppose Richard still did the biggest part of the songwriting, but you can hear the influence of the others. The album is totally nuts in terms of rhythm. Sometimes it's even hard to find a "1" somewhere. Ray's drums have improved so much; his effort on the other albums is nothing compared to this. It's incredible. Same can be said about Diego. The diversity of sounds he uses here is impressive, from 80s synth sounds (1985, Architect) to technoid (Red Giant, Endless Knot) and even dubstep like stuff (Endless Knot).
I feel like you can really watch this band grow. In terms of composition and success.

Oh and The Architect is the best Haken longtrack for me! I love all of them, but the combination of a huge epic melody with 8-string riffs never worked so well as in the finale of this track.
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1831 on: March 23, 2017, 03:03:07 AM »
I love the middle section of Aquarium! That whole descending bassline bit that, in the subsequent instrumental break, changes key so many times in such a cool way!

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1832 on: March 23, 2017, 04:26:43 PM »
Alright getting near 2 straight weeks of nothing but Haken.  I have a clear cut #1 best song that's heads and shoulders above everything else that they've ever done.

All four albums are great. At this point, start to stop, I'd rank them as follows.

1. Visions
2. Affinity
3. The Mountain
4. Aquarius

Aquarius is a hell of a debut album. Lots of great tunes. I like Celestial Elixir, but I don't love it. I do love the intro and some of the instrumental sections... but the verses, chorus leave much to be desired. But a hell of a "first" effort for sure.

Visions is one epic, concise story, and I think that it was well executed. Nocturnal Conspiracy is a beast of a song, and it, along with Premonition set the tone of the album nicely. Portals and Shapeshifter are a great 1/2 punch. And the title track is my 2nd favorite Haken song. Just a fantastic epic in every single way possible. Incredible everything!

The Mountain... you can tell they're finding their sound and coming of age. Really awesome album for sure. Highlights are when the choir kicks in during the intro of The Atlas Stone and the bulk of Cockroach King, which is my favorite song from this album. Somebody comes at a close second, and it's my favorite Ross performance. I find him to be a fantastic singer and do not get the complaints unless one is talking about specific tones or styles he implements because dude is a fantastically gifted chameleon. All of the other players are out of this world of course!

Affinity, what can I saw. A little rearranging, and this could have been even better. But what we did get is incredible. A lot of great songs.... an incredible mix and their best "work" to date. Which brings me to the main thing I wanted to address.

The Architect is one of the greatest songs that I've ever heard, and by leaps and bounds is Haken's crowning achievement.

I mean.. this song has it all. The technical precision throughout is awe inspiring. The intro is incredible. Every note Ross sings is incredible. The middle section sounds simple, but it's is complex and extremely impressive. The outro is insanely epic and for a band that does great outros.... this is their finest. I can forgive anyone who says that this isn't their favorite Haken song because it's lacking the "fun" that other great Haken songs have..... but good lord this song is absolute perfection.

I hate to say it like this, but the band should have named the song Affinity (the word is clearly used plenty in the song) and made it the last track instead of that song that lulls me to sleep. The Initiate reprise in the outro would have been the perfect bookend for the album.  I'm sure that more people would fap over it if it were called Affinity and the last track because I know how most prog fans are :)

To top it off, I wouldn't have blamed the bandmembers for shooting themselves in the head after recording the musical perfection that is The Architect.

Offline Crow

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1833 on: March 23, 2017, 05:53:07 PM »
Yeah, all you guys talking about the epics are forgetting that Crystallised > all.
haha no, it's inferior to the original version even

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1834 on: March 23, 2017, 06:50:46 PM »
DOC, while my praise won't be quite as effusive as yours, I agree that The Architect is pretty awesome.  The first minute alone is possibly the most bad ass thing they've done to date, and the rest of the song is pretty damn great; I think it is certainly in the conversation for best Haken song.

You do need to be smacked for saying Bound by Gravity puts you to sleep, however. :P  I think that and Red Giant are the two most underrated tracks on the album by far. I will take either over Initiate and The Endless Knot (the two least best tunes, IMO) by a wide margin.

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1835 on: March 23, 2017, 06:55:09 PM »
Kev, The Endless Knot is so freekin' Incredible live it would change your mind.  Seriously,  the place goes nuts.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1836 on: March 23, 2017, 06:57:32 PM »
Perhaps, but I just feel like the latter half of the song doesn't come close to living up to the first half.  It's like you're waiting for that awesome chorus...that never comes.

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1837 on: March 23, 2017, 07:01:00 PM »
When they first released it is was like , ok, it's good.  It grows on you.  The poor people in cars next to me when the dubstep part comes on blasting.   I look like I'm having a seizure.  :lol
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1838 on: March 23, 2017, 08:19:48 PM »
Yeah, we are gonna need to see video of that. :tup :tup

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1839 on: March 24, 2017, 04:23:53 AM »
DOC, while my praise won't be quite as effusive as yours, I agree that The Architect is pretty awesome.  The first minute alone is possibly the most bad ass thing they've done to date, and the rest of the song is pretty damn great; I think it is certainly in the conversation for best Haken song.

You do need to be smacked for saying Bound by Gravity puts you to sleep, however. :P  I think that and Red Giant are the two most underrated tracks on the album by far. I will take either over Initiate and The Endless Knot (the two least best tunes, IMO) by a wide margin.

I do like Red Giant, but I have no interest whatsoever in Bound by Gravity. I mean, it's not bad (no Haken song that I've head is), it just doesn't grab my interest.

Initiate on the other hand, for me, is the 2nd best song on the album. That run between 'TIL MY DYING DAY through when the song slows down again is absolutely incredible. 

Offline Estiui

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1840 on: March 24, 2017, 06:10:28 AM »
DOC, while my praise won't be quite as effusive as yours, I agree that The Architect is pretty awesome.  The first minute alone is possibly the most bad ass thing they've done to date, and the rest of the song is pretty damn great; I think it is certainly in the conversation for best Haken song.

You do need to be smacked for saying Bound by Gravity puts you to sleep, however. :P  I think that and Red Giant are the two most underrated tracks on the album by far. I will take either over Initiate and The Endless Knot (the two least best tunes, IMO) by a wide margin.

I do like Red Giant, but I have no interest whatsoever in Bound by Gravity. I mean, it's not bad (no Haken song that I've head is), it just doesn't grab my interest.

Initiate on the other hand, for me, is the 2nd best song on the album. That run between 'TIL MY DYING DAY through when the song slows down again is absolutely incredible.

I was going to express my opinions after reading the last messages on this topic, but then I read yours, which expresses perfectly what I wanted to say: I don't get why Initiate is not loved, it is awesome. Red Giant is fantastic. And Bound by gravity is dull, not bad (none of Haken's tunes are bad) but just not interesting to me.

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1841 on: March 24, 2017, 06:11:19 AM »
Yeah, we are gonna need to see video of that. :tup :tup

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Offline LordCost

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1842 on: March 24, 2017, 09:19:20 AM »
Yeah, all you guys talking about the epics are forgetting that Crystallised > all.
haha no, it's inferior to the original version even

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1843 on: March 24, 2017, 06:01:06 PM »
  Red Giant is fantastic.

This.  :tup :tup

Offline NoseofNicko

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1844 on: March 24, 2017, 10:14:04 PM »
Did it take anyone of you a long time to get into Aquarius? I don't know why, but I love Visions, The Mountain and Affinity, but I can't get into Aquarius. I don't dislike it, but I really don't love it.

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1845 on: March 25, 2017, 02:01:51 AM »
It was the first Haken album I heard and I loved it immediately. Probably still my favorite, I can't really decide between it and Affinity.

Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1846 on: March 25, 2017, 02:08:42 AM »
So ready to see Haken tonight  :metal

Just checked setlist.fm and they have played my preferred 'epic encore' of choice the last two nights. Here's hoping they make it 3/3, I will be beyond happy if they do  :metal

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1847 on: March 25, 2017, 02:09:16 AM »
Did it take anyone of you a long time to get into Aquarius? I don't know why, but I love Visions, The Mountain and Affinity, but I can't get into Aquarius. I don't dislike it, but I really don't love it.

I'm kind of the same but with Visions instead.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1848 on: March 25, 2017, 02:14:25 AM »
Did it take anyone of you a long time to get into Aquarius? I don't know why, but I love Visions, The Mountain and Affinity, but I can't get into Aquarius. I don't dislike it, but I really don't love it.

Out of all the Haken albums, I don't like Aquarius. It was a young Haken and they do not know yet how build up, how to write a climax for songs, so the songs (especially Celestial Elixir) felt like songs that do not have much ups and downs. And the growls are out of place.

Offline me7

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1849 on: March 25, 2017, 06:14:08 AM »
Out of all the Haken albums, I don't like Aquarius. It was a young Haken and they do not know yet how build up, how to write a climax for songs, so the songs (especially Celestial Elixir) felt like songs that do not have much ups and downs. And the growls are out of place.

I couldn't disagree more.

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1850 on: March 25, 2017, 06:35:40 AM »
I think it's amusing that you should mention the growls being out of place as if the placement of growls in Haken's music got better over time. *Looks at The Architect*

I actually kinda like the growl section in Streams, I don't like the transition into it but as soon as it has kicked off I enjoy them. As for Einar, his growls have their time and place and I don't think they're outstanding on their own, but when you listen to the second half of "Slave" for example, you'll find out that Leprous are pretty damn good at building the music around his vocals.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1851 on: March 25, 2017, 07:29:14 AM »
I've always thought Celestial Elixir was great, but I've had a tough time with the rest of Aquarius.  The long epic aside, the songs I probably like the most right now are Streams and Aquarium, and even those are ones I just kinda like.  I think as I listen to them more, they will grow on me.  Not much else from it has grabbed me.

It seems to me they were great from the start at writing the long epics, but it took them a few albums to really get down writing the shorter ones (if we can call 8 minute songs shorter ones :lol).  Most of the songs under 10 minutes on the last two albums are, at worst, really good.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1852 on: March 25, 2017, 09:10:45 AM »
Out of all the Haken albums, I don't like Aquarius. It was a young Haken and they do not know yet how build up, how to write a climax for songs, so the songs (especially Celestial Elixir) felt like songs that do not have much ups and downs. And the growls are out of place.

I couldn't disagree more.

So what is the climax of Celestial Elixir? It starts with a 3 and a half minutes of reprise of album themes, followed by 4 and a half minutes of a moody song, then about three and a half minutes of an upbeat instrumental, then around two minutes of the moody song, then a couple of minutes of a repeating chord progression that changes tempo midway, then a cooling down outro. And I am left wondering, where did the song peak? It's like there really is just eight to ten minutes' worth of a song but there is a long reprise at the start, and three minutes of outro of a single repeating chord progression.

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1853 on: March 25, 2017, 09:15:41 AM »
Well, can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it's in the last chorus where they alter the melody slightly.

Also, I think both Drowning in the Flood and Sun have fantastic climaxes.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity
« Reply #1854 on: March 25, 2017, 09:30:26 AM »
Out of all the Haken albums, I don't like Aquarius. It was a young Haken and they do not know yet how build up, how to write a climax for songs, so the songs (especially Celestial Elixir) felt like songs that do not have much ups and downs. And the growls are out of place.

I couldn't disagree more.

So what is the climax of Celestial Elixir? It starts with a 3 and a half minutes of reprise of album themes, followed by 4 and a half minutes of a moody song, then about three and a half minutes of an upbeat instrumental, then around two minutes of the moody song, then a couple of minutes of a repeating chord progression that changes tempo midway, then a cooling down outro. And I am left wondering, where did the song peak? It's like there really is just eight to ten minutes' worth of a song but there is a long reprise at the start, and three minutes of outro of a single repeating chord progression.

There are several climaxes in that song. 

For one, the synth part at the end of the instrumental section is a major climax, especially when the vocals come in doing that wordless stuff. If you don't think that is climatic, then I can't help you.  :biggrin:

Also, the climax at the end is more of a slow burn, rather than an over the top, bombastic one, but it's still a climax, nonetheless. Not every long epic has to have a majorly bombastic ending.