Author Topic: Haken v. Affinity, like Baconinity  (Read 61832 times)

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Offline Nick

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #140 on: February 15, 2015, 06:07:44 PM »
Yes.

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Offline benrosemberg

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #141 on: February 15, 2015, 09:22:42 PM »
Only checking into the thread for asking, is it for real that they are touring with Next to None?

Only on US Tour dates, and with the exception of the RoSFest date.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #142 on: February 18, 2015, 01:26:12 AM »
Is having Visions as the favorite Haken album a minority position here? I have read the posts and most seem to like The Mountain. I love that album also but Visions has the same effect on me as Awake. It also has my favorite Haken piece: the three song run from The Mind's Eye to Portals to Shapeshifter. It also has Visions, my second favorite Haken piece.


I am not that happy with Restoration, as Crystallised did not really click with me. Especially when they channeled DT's The Great Debate.  :lol

Doing the mix CDs, am I the only one who noticed that the albums got louder after Visions? I had to adjust volume when a song from The Mountain or Restoration comes up after a song from Visions or Aquarius.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 01:32:10 AM by erwinrafael »

Offline me7

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #143 on: February 18, 2015, 02:42:19 AM »
Indeed. Aquarius and Visions are dynamic sounding and well produced albums.

After that, the band got picked up by a bigger label and The Mountain and Restoration were brickwalled by "professionals" from the music industry.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #144 on: February 18, 2015, 02:57:25 AM »
Brickwalled? Wtf? The Moutain and Restoration sound fantastic.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #145 on: February 18, 2015, 03:11:46 AM »
Yeah I don't hear any brickwalling in their albums at all.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #146 on: February 18, 2015, 04:50:38 AM »
I don't think they are brickwalled, but they are definitely mixed louder. Atlas Stone is louder than Drowning in the Flood if you play them back to back.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #147 on: February 18, 2015, 06:29:06 AM »
I'm not saying The Mountain isn't louder, but let's be clear, it sounds really good. There are a myriad of other much much worse examples, that pretty much keep anything Haken has done out of the discussion on brickwalling.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #148 on: February 18, 2015, 08:58:46 AM »
I don't think they are brickwalled, but they are definitely mixed louder. Atlas Stone is louder than Drowning in the Flood if you play them back to back.
Yeah but louder =/= worse or more compressed.

Offline me7

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #149 on: February 18, 2015, 12:08:14 PM »
In the case of The Mountain, it is.
We're not talking about level shifts here. Aquarius and Visions are less loud on average (-7,6 and -6,3 dB ReplayGain respectively) AND still peak at the CD maximum. The Mountain has an average of -9,4dB.

I surprised at the reaction to my previous post. The excessive compression on The Mountain annoyed me since my first listen. It's especially annoying since I consider Visions to be one of the best sounding Metal albums of this decade, why did they need to take a turn for the worse in sound quality as their songwriting matured?

Offline BlackInk

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #150 on: February 18, 2015, 12:12:34 PM »
I think The Mountain sounds better than Visions. Visions is a bit mushy.
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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #151 on: February 18, 2015, 12:38:42 PM »
why did they need to take a turn for the worse in sound quality as their songwriting matured?
They didn't. The Mountain sounds, in my opinion and the opinion of apparently a lot of others, vastly superior.

And quoting numbers doesn't mean anything on its own. There's a lot of discussion about that over on the DT-side, but it comes down to each person using their own ears. If you don't like how The Mountain sounds, that's totally cool, but a lot of people (including people who have complained about the over-compression of recent albums by DT, BG, etc) think it sounds great.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #152 on: February 18, 2015, 01:00:59 PM »
I agree with Rich. I think The Mountain was their best sounding album to date overall.

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Offline me7

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #153 on: February 18, 2015, 01:12:30 PM »
There's a lot of discussion about that over on the DT-side, but it comes down to each person using their own ears.

Do you want to imply that I didn't LISTEN extensively to the three Haken albums? Look at my profile picture and personal text ;D

Using numbers like ReplayGain values to formulate what you hear in a short text is fine IMO. I only wrote them because they correlate with what I hear.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #154 on: February 18, 2015, 01:29:36 PM »
There's a lot of discussion about that over on the DT-side, but it comes down to each person using their own ears.

Do you want to imply that I didn't LISTEN extensively to the three Haken albums? Look at my profile picture and personal text ;D
:lol No, I just meant that each person will use their own ears, so it's totally understandable that different people will have different views on how something sounds. It's only really the extreme cases (like Death Magnetic) where pretty much everyone agrees. Even then it's not everyone!

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #155 on: February 18, 2015, 01:54:45 PM »
The Mountain is louder, but there is nothing wrong with the sound quality.  It sounds incredible.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #156 on: February 18, 2015, 04:36:06 PM »
The Mountain is modern metal production done right. It's so spacious and dynamic. It kinda reminds me of Terria by Devin Townsend or even Octavarium to some degree but even better sonically. I don't understand why that production style isn't the norm for modern metal.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #157 on: February 18, 2015, 04:44:03 PM »
The Mountain is modern metal production done right. It's so spacious and dynamic.

I was considering saying something like this earlier, so thank you for doing it instead. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't put The Mountain in the category of best sounding albums I've heard, but it is a great production job that, as you mentioned, keeps up with the times and still sounds very good.

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Offline Parama

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #158 on: February 18, 2015, 04:58:37 PM »
i hated how visions sounded, it was a decent part of why i didn't like it as much as Aquarius or The Mountain, I have no complaints about the production on the other two though. Visions just sounds really... stiff.
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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #159 on: February 18, 2015, 05:39:10 PM »
The Mountain is modern metal production done right. It's so spacious and dynamic.

I was considering saying something like this earlier, so thank you for doing it instead. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't put The Mountain in the category of best sounding albums I've heard, but it is a great production job that, as you mentioned, keeps up with the times and still sounds very good.
I'd place The Mountain as one of the best sounding Metal records in the last 15 years. Only other albums I can think of that would come close are Six Degrees or maybe something by Opeth or BTBAM.

Offline benrosemberg

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #160 on: February 18, 2015, 08:48:31 PM »
I am not that happy with Restoration, as Crystallised did not really click with me. Especially when they channeled DT's The Great Debate.  :lol

And what part is that, exactly?

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #161 on: February 18, 2015, 10:00:53 PM »
Starting 4:08 instrumentals going to these lyrics:

"Passages of time
Buried in the chaos of my mind
Chronicles of life
Concealing a truth I left behind

Passages of time
Buried in the chaos of my mind
Chronicles of life
Concealing a truth I can't deny"

To my ears, it's like a marriage between the stanza of Great Debate and the portion of the Sacrificed Sons instrumental that references Octavarium.  :lol

Offline jammindude

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #162 on: February 18, 2015, 10:13:22 PM »
Funny...  I always hear the exact chord progression of "Beyond This Life" in the Visions album somewhere, but the song slips my mind at the moment.

I know the section you're talking about in Crystallized and I still don't hear it.    But BTL in Visions I definitely hear.   I hear it every time.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #163 on: February 18, 2015, 10:35:14 PM »
Funny...  I always hear the exact chord progression of "Beyond This Life" in the Visions album somewhere, but the song slips my mind at the moment.

I know the section you're talking about in Crystallized and I still don't hear it.    But BTL in Visions I definitely hear.   I hear it every time.

Hahaha. I have not heard BTL in the Visions album. I have heard TMOLS, though. The acoustic guitar portion leading to the vocals has some similarities to the acoustic guitar of Nocturnal Conspiracy.

Anyway,

http://youtu.be/4z6vpiXQJNA?t=2m52s

plus

http://youtu.be/3nBpLzNwkZw?t=5m21s

equals

http://youtu.be/Zk9Wk96yzBY?t=4m10s

Of course, I am just having fun with this.  :rollin

Offline m0hawk

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #164 on: February 18, 2015, 10:37:56 PM »
Funny...  I always hear the exact chord progression of "Beyond This Life" in the Visions album somewhere, but the song slips my mind at the moment.

I know the section you're talking about in Crystallized and I still don't hear it.    But BTL in Visions I definitely hear.   I hear it every time.

Shapeshifter, 28 seconds in. I feel like they had no intention of being subtle with that nod to DT. It's like they actively wanted fans to think of DT with that little passage.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #165 on: February 18, 2015, 10:48:17 PM »
Funny...  I always hear the exact chord progression of "Beyond This Life" in the Visions album somewhere, but the song slips my mind at the moment.

I know the section you're talking about in Crystallized and I still don't hear it.    But BTL in Visions I definitely hear.   I hear it every time.

Shapeshifter, 28 seconds in. I feel like they had no intention of being subtle with that nod to DT. It's like they actively wanted fans to think of DT with that little passage.

Is that it? That's the circus-y portion right? I don't really hear the BTL chord progression there. I think the portion jammindude is referring to is the chord progression in the instrumental of Visions, around 7:05.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #166 on: February 18, 2015, 11:59:37 PM »
Well, it's not just "the circusy part"...it's that whole chord progression that gets used on the verses...even though it starts circusy...

The first time I heard it, and every time I hear it, my mind *immediately* heard the phrase, "what we have been is whaaaaaat we aaaaaaarrreee".   That chord progression was so imbedded in my brain that the reaction was automatic.   

I think that gets repeated elsewhere on the album as well.   Possibly Premonition?
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #167 on: February 19, 2015, 01:31:18 AM »
Oh, I get it now.  :tup I thought you were referring to the chord progression at the start of BTL.

Offline BlackInk

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #168 on: February 19, 2015, 03:31:09 AM »
I usually don't pay attention to sound quality, unless it's really bad. So with the Mountain, while i does sound great, I didn't really think about it, and just enjoyed the music. But on Restoration, it really stuck out to me as my favorite sounding Haken release. Everything on there just sounds awesome.
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Offline benrosemberg

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #169 on: February 19, 2015, 05:43:14 AM »
Interesting that some of you are actively reminded of DT songs while listening to Haken material. To me there's always been an obvious similarity, but until now hadn't really thought any particular section/song sounded like a specific DT section/song.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #170 on: February 19, 2015, 05:52:51 AM »
Although I had never noticed it previously, I can definitely hear the similarity now in Shapeshifter.

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #171 on: February 19, 2015, 06:04:05 AM »
Although I had never noticed it previously, I can definitely hear the similarity now in Shapeshifter.
Same here. Nice spot!

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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #172 on: February 19, 2015, 08:16:56 AM »
...and for the record.   I never viewed it as a bad thing.   The difference between "homage" and "rip off" to me is a matter of subtlety (you get a bit more leeway if you're doing it to yourself like The Kinks did).  In this case, it's only a few notes, and not the entire song or anything.   Also, it seemed fitting that since you are also making an album with similar themes (re-incarnation and a murder mystery), it seemed a nice way to "tip your hat" to something that was obviously immensely influential...whether it was a conscious addition or not. 

 
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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #173 on: February 19, 2015, 11:01:13 AM »
I've just noticed the analogy: Visions which talks about time travel, murders and stuff like that (Metropolis Part 2) is also the most DT-sounding record of the three, neat.
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Re: Haken v. Restoration, like Baconoration
« Reply #174 on: February 20, 2015, 12:30:09 PM »
I finally get to see Haken at RoSfest this May with Nick and DT. DTVT. :metal
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