DT should rework their old demos like Haken did

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I think it would be pretty interesting if they reworked some old demos into an EP like Haken did, but for reasons already discussed in this thread, they probably won't, and to be honest, I don't think I'll be losing any sleep over it.

[Rodni Demental]

upon my most recent listen of the Majesty Demos, I do admit, I think it would be awesome to hear some of those songs in a much more polished quality, with James on the vocals.
Another Won was a pleasant example, from Score, but man, if we could have something like that for, A Vision, I think it would be amazing. Again, not even gonna bother keeping my fingers crossed for something like that, but I do think that it would be really enjoyable.

I couldn't agree more! I would love to see stuff like this as bonus tracks. I don't expect a whole album or collection of things nor should it be at the expense of progress or new material. But how cool of an idea is it to just rework some perfectly good old material? Material that ain't broken, just a bit old and lacking presentation at this point. Maybe even just one song with a fresh or more modern perspective. Now that's being progressive! 

I know it's not exactly likely, but I'd fully support the idea or even the possibility.

[TheGreatPretender]

The problem is, it's not even just that the band is looking forward, and focusing on just new material, but honestly, it has been a really long time since the band made excess non-album material period. The last "B-Side" that we got, was the acoustic version of Wither. That and Raw Dog, but even that was a half-hearted effort made only because the label asked them to.
My point is, everything they work on these days is meticulously crafted to be on the albums they make, and there isn't any material that gets left on the cutting room floor so to speak, at least that we know of. So it really seems like they just don't bother spending time on "extra stuff", be it old or new, but rather only plan for what's going to be on the album, and how it will flow in the final product. It's a good kind of attention, but for them to just take the time and rework their old material, I don't think they're even in the habit of doing stuff like that anymore.

[hefdaddy42]

They haven't been in that habit since SFAM.  They write enough material to fit the album, then stop.

The piano version of Wither was basically a remix, it didn't require much effort.

[Setlist Scotty]

My point is, everything they work on these days is meticulously crafted to be on the albums they make, and there isn't any material that gets left on the cutting room floor so to speak, at least that we know of.

Actually, they do. There are plenty of other song sections that are developed to varying degrees that ultimately get discarded because they couldn't find a proper home for them in any of the songs that were written. That's where the material for Raw Dog and IWBY both came from. In the case of IWBY, it was a song that they had put together to a degree but then discarded because it didn't fit in with the overall feel/theme of Train of Thought.

So there's lots of material that they could use for B-sides - the only thing is that it would take a little more effort to finish crafting those pieces into completed songs and writing lyrics for them, which sadly the band appears to have zero interest in doing.   

[ToT-147]

In the case of IWBY, it was a song that they had put together to a degree but then discarded because it didn't fit in with the overall feel/theme of Train of Thought.

Where did you know that?..

[Setlist Scotty]

In the case of IWBY, it was a song that they had put together to a degree but then discarded because it didn't fit in with the overall feel/theme of Train of Thought.

Where did you know that?..

MP told me that when I interviewed him before the LA show in 2009.

[TheGreatPretender]

That's really interesting, though I guess it makes sense, I mean, obviously certain riffs and ideas will be cut. JP said so in his interview from last month too.
But it doesn't seem to me like they put to together whole songs before axing them, the way they used to. Not having to demo things these days means they basically don't do more work than they have to. It's not like they put together a song and then say, "You know, it's a good song, but maybe we can write a better one." and then this song ends up as a B-Side/Bonus Track type of situation.

It would be really cool if they still did stuff like that.

[BlobVanDam]

In the case of IWBY, it was a song that they had put together to a degree but then discarded because it didn't fit in with the overall feel/theme of Train of Thought.

Where did you know that?..

MP told me that when I interviewed him before the LA show in 2009.

I would guess that didn't include the chorus in its current form, since it's based on the Octavarium theme. I wonder if they ever recorded even a rough demo of that? It must exist somewhere if they remembered it for Octavarium. I'd like to hear that.

[YtseJamittaja]

What if DT would do this concept, which songs you would like to hear if it was an EP? Maybe they could use all the demos, not only Majesty era..

1. Another Won
2. The Way it Used to Be
3. Cover My Eyes
4. Two Far
5. Eve

[TheGreatPretender]

I would guess that didn't include the chorus in its current form, since it's based on the Octavarium theme. I wonder if they ever recorded even a rough demo of that? It must exist somewhere if they remembered it for Octavarium. I'd like to hear that.

Okay, I'm far from a musical genius, and I don't always pick up all these nuggets, so which part of 8VM is IWBY's chorus referencing, exactly?

What if DT would do this concept, which songs you would like to hear if it was an EP? Maybe they could use all the demos, not only Majesty era..

1. Another Won
2. The Way it Used to Be
3. Cover My Eyes
4. Two Far
5. Eve

Mine would be:

1. A Vision
2. Another Won
3. Don't Look Past Me
4. The Way It Used To Be (with an extended instrumental section)
5. Speak To Me

[BlobVanDam]

I would guess that didn't include the chorus in its current form, since it's based on the Octavarium theme. I wonder if they ever recorded even a rough demo of that? It must exist somewhere if they remembered it for Octavarium. I'd like to hear that.

Okay, I'm far from a musical genius, and I don't always pick up all these nuggets, so which part of 8VM is IWBY's chorus referencing, exactly?

It references one of the main progressions, the one that the lapsteel introduces at the start of the song (3:49), which is reused throughout the song.

I only picked up on it recently, because the melody over it is mostly different aside from the line "through all that may.....", which uses the same notes in different phrasing, but it uses the same chord progression for the second half of the chorus, being 1, 6m, 6M, 4, which is a unique progression given the regularly changing tonality of it. In IWBY the progression is in D, rather than in F as it is in Octavarium.

[TheGreatPretender]

It references one of the main progressions, the one that the lapsteel introduces at the start of the song (3:49), which is reused throughout the song.

I only picked up on it recently, because the melody over it is mostly different aside from the line "through all that may.....", which uses the same notes in different phrasing, but it uses the same chord progression for the second half of the chorus, being 1, 6m, 6M, 4, which is a unique progression given the regularly changing tonality of it. In IWBY the progression is in D, rather than in F as it is in Octavarium.

Oh, okay, I hear it. That is awesome!

[ToT-147]

Yeah, it's so awesome that I couldn't stop myself to doing this: https://goo.gl/yN7Vht

It's the two melodies over the same chord progression.. I did it on A, so that both sounds are in the same key... DT never cease to amaze me...

[Setlist Scotty]

In the case of IWBY, it was a song that they had put together to a degree but then discarded because it didn't fit in with the overall feel/theme of Train of Thought.

Where did you know that?..

MP told me that when I interviewed him before the LA show in 2009.

I would guess that didn't include the chorus in its current form, since it's based on the Octavarium theme. I wonder if they ever recorded even a rough demo of that? It must exist somewhere if they remembered it for Octavarium. I'd like to hear that.

Hard to say - was 8v written before or after IWBY? If 8v was written afterward, there is a definite chance that they liked what they had in IWBY and decided to include it in 8v.

As for rough demos, don't forget MP recorded everything! I can't even imagine how many parts of songs (and maybe even a nearly completed song or two) were written and recorded, only to never make it to an album. In that interview, I asked MP if he would ever release all those forgotten pieces on a Ytsejam Records bootleg, and he didn't think so, but as always "never say never". Of course these days, it's even less likely than before.   

Not to get off track, but the one thing I'd love to hear compiled on a Ytsejam Records bootleg would be the songs and mostly completed songs that individual guys brought to the band (before the band DT-ized them) - songs such as WfS, 6:00, TSM, SDVest (which is in circulation), It's All About You (original rewrite JP did with Desmond Child) and Wither, as well as others that I *think* were provided in mostly complete format (if I'm not mistaken) like AD, Surrounded and IF.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah, it's so awesome that I couldn't stop myself to doing this: https://goo.gl/yN7Vht

It's the two melodies over the same chord progression.. I did it on A, so that both sounds are in the same key... DT never cease to amaze me...

Can't open the link. Are you sure you set it to public?

[BlobVanDam]

Hard to say - was 8v written before or after IWBY? If 8v was written afterward, there is a definite chance that they liked what they had in IWBY and decided to include it in 8v.

Without hearing an original demo, it's impossible to say anything definitively, but musically it sounds more fitting to the Octavarium melody with the alternating bars of major/minor tonality, whereas the melody in IWBY is straight major, so it wouldn't have been at all hard to slot in a new progression underneath that gave it a different feel. That's assuming they had a chorus written for IWBY with a different progression at first.

I can't open the link either.

[ToT-147]

Yeah, it's so awesome that I couldn't stop myself to doing this: https://goo.gl/yN7Vht

It's the two melodies over the same chord progression.. I did it on A, so that both sounds are in the same key... DT never cease to amaze me...

Can't open the link. Are you sure you set it to public?

Try this one... https://goo.gl/VaSveF

[YtseJamittaja]

Thanks to Blob for the facts! I've never noticed that IWBY/8V similarity before!

[BlobVanDam]

Thanks to Blob for the facts! I've never noticed that IWBY/8V similarity before!

I can't recall seeing it mentioned before, I only noticed it myself a few weeks ago because I was looking for it.

[TheGreatPretender]

Yeah, it's so awesome that I couldn't stop myself to doing this: https://goo.gl/yN7Vht

It's the two melodies over the same chord progression.. I did it on A, so that both sounds are in the same key... DT never cease to amaze me...

Can't open the link. Are you sure you set it to public?

Try this one... https://goo.gl/VaSveF

There we go! That's awesome! Damn chord progressions always slip past me.