Author Topic: Gender Neutral Bathrooms  (Read 2887 times)

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Offline Chino

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Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« on: October 30, 2014, 12:11:29 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/29/sdsu-shit-in-gender-neutral-bathrooms_n_6069848.html

Quote
A group of San Diego State University students hosted a "shit-in" in order to "raise awareness and advocacy for gender neutral/gender non-segregated bathrooms," according a Facebook page for the event.

Are you fucking kidding me? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for equality and certain amounts of political correctness, but what the fuck does this accomplish? Seriously? I've never once heard anyone in my life complain that they had to use a different bathroom than a member of the opposite sex. This is beyond stupid to me. I can't even wrap my head around it. Is this what our world is coming to? College students are handing out flyers and protesting because we have gender specific bathrooms? How about raising awareness for real problems on college campuses. I don't know, how about something like the $1.2T loan debt. Seriously. What the fuck. I am without words. I don't even know what to say. It's not like one sex has better facilities than the other (I guess you could argue that urinals are pretty dope). All this is going to do is make it easier for college commuters to fuck each other in between classes.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 12:16:41 PM by Chino »

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2014, 12:27:17 PM »
Yeah, this seems pretty stupid.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2014, 12:44:51 PM »
...say the cis people. It's not that hard to have a small gender neutral bathroom. Just that small addition makes so many people feel more comfortable.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2014, 12:48:43 PM »
...say the cis people. It's not that hard to have a small gender neutral bathroom. Just that small addition makes so many people feel more comfortable.
It's hard to add a third bathroom to every place that already has two.  Still not sure why two aren't enough.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 01:04:56 PM »
California has a law that prohibits people from using the other side's john. Put that law up to a referendum and see if the people want it changed. Really, the legality of using whichever head you want is the only concern I see. In most states there's nothing prohibiting me from using the lady's can, and I've seen women use the men's before. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
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Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2014, 01:08:04 PM »
Yep, definitely a bad move.

Imagine this, you had a particularly hot vindaloo last night knowing almost immediately after that you'll be burning a hold in the porcelain the next day.

You step in work and let that long, painfully hot and moist bowel movement out with a few grunts and sighs.

You step out the cubical to see that crush you've had for years.. She gives you a harrowing look and runs away.

Everyone in your class knows it was you who left the bathroom a bio-hazard.

No thanks.



But in all seriousness this is ridiculous.

Offline XJDenton

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 01:19:31 PM »
Sweden doesn't have this problem, since 90% of the toilets in the country are already unisex.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 01:36:56 PM »
...say the cis people. It's not that hard to have a small gender neutral bathroom. Just that small addition makes so many people feel more comfortable.

I seriously just read this in Cartman's voice.

Sweden doesn't have this problem, since 90% of the toilets in the country are already unisex.

How big are those bathrooms? I've seen many unisex bathrooms, they're just a toilet and a sink. And while I think everyone would love it if every bathroom were like that, it's not necessarily the most efficient for a large-scale public place. Where are those 10% of toilets that aren't unisex?

I don't even know what to say. It's not like one sex has better facilities than the other (I guess you could argue that urinals are pretty dope). All this is going to do is make it easier for college commuters to fuck each other in between classes.

As someone who used to clean bathrooms, I can tell you, depending on the venue, women's restrooms can be vastly cleaner. Like, not even close. For some reason they can't seem to get paper towels in the trash, but they don't splash piss all over the floor.

Offline jasc15

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 02:03:22 PM »
I often wonder if in a generation or two, the idea of gendered bathrooms will seem quaint and dated.

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 02:11:16 PM »
I often wonder if in a generation or two, the idea of gendered bathrooms will seem quaint and dated.

I think that would be great..... Then I walk in a Walmart and I dont think so anymore
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2014, 02:19:55 PM »
I often wonder if in a generation or two, the idea of gendered bathrooms will seem quaint and dated.
No.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2014, 02:20:48 PM »
I have no issue with gender neutral bathrooms. But the fact that school officials are going to have to waste time even discussing it is stupid. Just let the system be. It's a pointless battle.

Offline orcus116

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2014, 02:47:22 PM »
I think it's a silly idea that would just appease a small minority. I'm all for equality but the steps a lot of these groups are making to turn everything completely PC seem really over the top and impossible to implement the way society is structured. Personally, I think it has way more to do with the self centeredness of these groups instead of society.

Offline Ħ

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2014, 03:20:36 PM »
...say the cis people. It's not that hard to have a small gender neutral bathroom. Just that small addition makes so many people feel more comfortable.
It is kinda hard.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2014, 04:28:19 PM »
Sweden doesn't have this problem, since 90% of the toilets in the country are already unisex.

They just have the opposite problem: if you don't want a unisex bathroom, you are shit out of luck.  Pun intended.

This to me is such a first world problem as to be a sure sign that this is a straw man for a bigger issue.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2014, 05:29:14 PM »
I'm seeing two problems here. One, if there's a specific problem let the people involved address it. If this specific school has students who have a problem with the current climate then they and the school should work it out. It doesn't need to be a statewide issue. It doesn't need to effect small businesses or other such places (unless that becomes a distinct issue). The second problem is that it seems that anytime we get to an issue that involves some sort of minority, it's always people of differing classes that get up in arms about it. Far too many outsiders jumping into cause celbres now, as it's become a trendy thing to do. What should be a small issue between a small group and a university suddenly becomes grist for watercooler babbling, and when the discussion becomes that stupid the results will usually be just as much so.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2014, 07:52:45 PM »
I agree with that, Barto. Yes, I think it's a great idea to have a unisex bathroom to accommodate people, and I'm talking about a single room deal, not an entire other bathroom with multiple toilets and sinks. But at the same time, it's already becoming common practice so there doesn't need to be a huge uproar about it on either side. Most new buildings already have this. It doesn't have to be this huge news story though; you're right. As soon as it gets bigger, people that don't need it think it's ridiculous to even need it.

I won't get into this kind of stuff again though. Last time we discussed the non-cisgendered community, things didn't go well. Just try to understand that there is a real group of people that would find this really helpful.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2014, 08:18:20 PM »
Equal treatment for all. I have no problem (hell, sounds preferable to me) with numerous small, private bathrooms, which every single sex can use. I do have a problem with making an extra, small private restroom meant for transgendered people.


Offline Dark Castle

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2014, 08:31:18 PM »
EDIT: I'm actually not going to get involved with this topic, I already know somebody's going to make me blow a gasket.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2014, 08:42:35 PM »
Yeah, but at the same time you don't always get to feel comfortable. There are solutions to things like this, but assuming that the answer has to make everybody happy is a pretty bad approach. Consider all of those college girls who claim to be rape victims. Shouldn't they feel comfortable in the head too? As silly as I think they are, shouldn't Christians be able to take care of their dirty, sinful business free of external shame? I'm not saying any of these are right or wrong, but you're never going to satisfy everybody by trying to please everybody one at a time.
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Offline jonnybaxy

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2014, 04:50:55 AM »
I don't understand.... You guys are talking about a small room with one toilet.... Then what's the point? I'm assuming it would be a cubicle, but both genders have cubicles. If your in a cubicle you can't see wo else is in there anyway and they can't see you...

Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of this...

Offline Chino

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2014, 05:49:17 AM »
I'm envisioning bathrooms of 5+ stalls that are open to both sexes. I'm sorry, but I don't want that. I dont mind single bathrooms in the least.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2014, 06:58:43 AM »
I don't understand.... You guys are talking about a small room with one toilet.... Then what's the point? I'm assuming it would be a cubicle, but both genders have cubicles. If your in a cubicle you can't see wo else is in there anyway and they can't see you...

Maybe I'm getting the wrong end of this...
This is where I am.  I don't see how any new addition would much different than the current situation in practical terms.
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Offline Podaar

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2014, 07:46:35 AM »
In my experience, a large part of the impetus for unisex bathrooms is NOT coming from the minority, but from the majority.

For example; Mrs. P was the Administrative Director for 700+ employee, County government building. A large group of women complained to the department that a transgendered employee (who had successfully undergone a sex change to female) was using their bathroom. Now get this, they didn't really have a problem with her using the facilities, so to speak, but because her hormone therapy wasn't particularly effective in combating facial hair she would use the bathroom on her lunch-break to shave. That's what their major objection was.

The male employees were even worse. "Not in our house", kinda thing.

ITT, we've learned that making the minority more comfortable for their needs isn't an overarching concern for most people, but it seems to me the real issue is large groups of people are being made uncomfortable. Thus the drive for something to be done.

Now, my preference would be to provide sensitivity training for everyone, encourage compassion for our fellow humans, and keep the restrooms as is.

BTW, the employee in question self-selected out and quit. The County lost a very productive programmer that day. Kinda sad, really.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2014, 07:53:03 AM »
I still think this is a tempest in a teapot; public bathrooms aren't the primary line of defense are they?  Aren't they the lowest common denominator to provide a base level of service in the event of NEED, not WANT?   

I get that this may sound harsh, but isn't this the age old question? Knowing we can't make ALL 315 million people happy all the time, isn't the balance to make the most amount of people reasonably happy at the least expense of economics and logistics?  Simply put, when you are creating a public area, and especially where space is at a premium, having FIVE individual rooms, all with complete plumbing, is incredibly resource wasteful; just like the airlines know full well you want a bigger seat, it is a tradeoff on other variables.   Given that it is a public restroom and not the master bathroom off your private bedroom, don't the partitions offer a reasonable amount of privacy under the circumstances?   Within the confines of that structure, there is no way of knowing what the true gender of the person next to you is.


Offline Stadler

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2014, 07:57:42 AM »
In my experience, a large part of the impetus for unisex bathrooms is NOT coming from the minority, but from the majority.

For example; Mrs. P was the Administrative Director for 700+ employee, County government building. A large group of women complained to the department that a transgendered employee (who had successfully undergone a sex change to female) was using their bathroom. Now get this, they didn't really have a problem with her using the facilities, so to speak, but because her hormone therapy wasn't particularly effective in combating facial hair she would use the bathroom on her lunch-break to shave. That's what their major objection was.

The male employees were even worse. "Not in our house", kinda thing.

ITT, we've learned that making the minority more comfortable for their needs isn't an overarching concern for most people, but it seems to me the real issue is large groups of people are being made uncomfortable. Thus the drive for something to be done.

Now, my preference would be to provide sensitivity training for everyone, encourage compassion for our fellow humans, and keep the restrooms as is.

BTW, the employee in question self-selected out and quit. The County lost a very productive programmer that day. Kinda sad, really.

Hmm, as I suspected, a bigger issue.

I'm at a loss as to why the "transgender" aspect is an issue here; I think that if I was to be upset in the first place, I would be upset that ANYONE was shaving in a public restroom I was using regularly.  Isn't that an issue that has better solutions than revamping the entire bathroom system into x number of separate rooms?   

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2014, 07:58:29 AM »
We need to make sure the reason we make change (or not make change) isn't to make sure the majority of people are "happy".  First, we need to make sure peoples rights are protected, even at the expense of the majority being unhappy.
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Offline Jaffa

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2014, 08:17:39 AM »
Sure, but are people's rights really on the line in an issue like this?  I mean, which rights are we aiming to protect here? 
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2014, 08:20:10 AM »
Sure, but are people's rights really on the line in an issue like this?  I mean, which rights are we aiming to protect here?

That is what is under debate I assume.  I just wanted to point out that the majoritys happiness is not more important than the Minority's rights.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2014, 08:26:45 AM »
And rights conflict all the time.

Seems like a simple solution might be to start building heads with stall walls that go floor to ceiling. Wouldn't that facilitate such a change if it did become important enough to implement?
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2014, 08:29:39 AM »
And rights conflict all the time.

Seems like a simple solution might be to start building heads with stall walls that go floor to ceiling. Wouldn't that facilitate such a change if it did become important enough to implement?

Great idea....anyone have an idea why stalls arent built that way standard? 
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Offline Chino

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2014, 08:33:45 AM »
And rights conflict all the time.

Seems like a simple solution might be to start building heads with stall walls that go floor to ceiling. Wouldn't that facilitate such a change if it did become important enough to implement?

Great idea....anyone have an idea why stalls arent built that way standard?

Probably because it's super cheap and makes bathrooms way easier to clean. There's also less damage if there's ever a flood. I've read that other countries have bathroom where there are no gaps to the outside. People come to the US for the first time and get super uncomfortable using the bathrooms here.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2014, 08:35:23 AM »
I'm guessing ventilation. A sealed up closet with a toilet in it would get pretty ripe pretty quickly. Still, not all that difficult to work around.
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Offline vtgrad

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2014, 08:54:38 AM »
And rights conflict all the time.

Seems like a simple solution might be to start building heads with stall walls that go floor to ceiling. Wouldn't that facilitate such a change if it did become important enough to implement?

Great idea....anyone have an idea why stalls arent built that way standard?

If the lock on the stall door doesn't work, you are able to see if someone else is using that particular toilet (see G. Costanza).  I think Yankee Stadium should be first to implement the floor to ceiling design.

Seriously, there may need to be a discussion about this issue, but I think Stadler's comment about public restrooms being for NEED and not WANT should weigh into that discussion when it takes place.  As Liz said in Shawn of the Dead "... there are slightly more pressing matters at hand here..."
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Offline Podaar

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Re: Gender Neutral Bathrooms
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2014, 08:56:35 AM »

Hmm, as I suspected, a bigger issue.

I'm at a loss as to why the "transgender" aspect is an issue here; I think that if I was to be upset in the first place, I would be upset that ANYONE was shaving in a public restroom I was using regularly.  Isn't that an issue that has better solutions than revamping the entire bathroom system into x number of separate rooms?

Well, the "transgender" aspect was only an issue with the other employees not the employer. I think it's called the "ick factor" but I don't subscribe to it so I don't really know. As for the shaving: I don't know where you work, but I can't imagine even blinking if I happened by someone in the men's room with an electric shaver. Some guys have heavy beards and like to have a neat appearance. But yes, I believe there are better solutions than an entire new bathroom.

We need to make sure the reason we make change (or not make change) isn't to make sure the majority of people are "happy".  First, we need to make sure peoples rights are protected, even at the expense of the majority being unhappy.

Realistically, an employer does need to think about keeping qualified, productive and profitable employees happy. Especially in some high skill industries. Employee retention is much more economical than continuous employee training.