The Past Never Dies

[chaossystem]

Has it really been FIFTEEN YEARS?

Wow!

WHERE does the time go?

Anyway, it's good to know that-like so many of their other albums-Scenes From a Memory has stood the test of time.

To commemorate this monumental anniversary in my own way, I would like to submit my own version(s) of how it should be, or have been play(ed) live.

Now I know a lot of people love "Live Scenes,"and with good reason, because it does have a lot going for it.
But I'm sure that there are also several of you who will agree with me that we could have done without the chopped-up versions of some of the songs, and things like attempting to combine "Caught in a Web" and "New Millennium" into one song wasn't the BEST move on their part.
My version of "Scenes" doesn't present the entire story from beginning to end un-interrupted, but it does have MOST of the songs and music from it, combined with several songs from the first four albums.
Besides, that's already been done, and maybe they could do that again in 2019!

But this is part of my "retro" series, in which I'm still making up these set lists as if the albums that came after didn't exist.
Again, any critique or thoughts on how to better arrange this thing are always welcome.

Also, if anyone can come up with a better title than "The Past Never Dies," I would love to hear it. It's the best I could do without using words from the original title.

Set1:
1) Regression
2) Overture 1928
3) Just Let Me Breathe
If you listen to them, 2 actually segues quite nicely into 3.
4) Strange Deja Vu
5) Voices
6) Through My Words
7) Fatal Tragedy
8) Beyond This Life
I would want this to be the "Train of Thought" tour/"Live at Budokan" version.
9) Metropolis
I know this is probably aq strange place for this song, especially since "Scenes" is supposed to be "part 2," But I like to shake things up a little!
10) The Ones Who Help to set the Sun
11) Peruvian Skies

Set 2:
1) Home
2) The Dance of Eternity
3) The Silent Man
Just to bring things down a little.
4) One Last Time
5) The Spirit Carries On
The "Score" version with the extended guitar part.
6) A Change of Seasons
Like I said: I like to shake things UP!
7) Finally Free
The "Live Scenes" version with the extended instrumental section at the end.
Encore:
8) New Millennium

That one not to your liking? There's no way I can make this perfect for EVERYONE, but I put a little more thought into this second version, and hopefully the "flow" will be at least a little bit better.

Set 1:
1) Regression
2) Overture 1928
3) Burning My Soul
4) Strange Deja Vu
5) Scarred (The Platypus Song!)
6) Through My Words
7) Fatal Tragedy
8) Take the Time
9) The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun
10) Beyond This Life
Again, the extended version.
11) New Millennium

Set 2:
1) Innocence Faded
2) Home
3) Surrounded
4) The Dance of Eternity
5) The Killing Hand
6) One Last Time
7) Peruvian Skies
8) The Spirit Carries On
Score version again
9) Wait for sleep
Maybe Jordan could even play a (piano) solo between 7 & 8.
10) Finally Free
"Scenes" version again.
Encore:
11) 6:00

[BlobVanDam]

I personally don't like the idea of splitting SFAM up at all, especially if you're playing basically the whole thing anyway. Maybe if you were splitting it into the acts it wouldn't be so bad, but for a start, I can't see how you could split Overture 1928 / Strange Deja Vu. They're just designed to flow into each other.
It's a whole album experience to me, so breaking it up hurts the flow of it imo.

[hefdaddy42]

I personally don't like the idea of splitting SFAM up at all, especially if you're playing basically the whole thing anyway. Maybe if you were splitting it into the acts it wouldn't be so bad, but for a start, I can't see how you could split Overture 1928 / Strange Deja Vu. They're just designed to flow into each other.
It's a whole album experience to me, so breaking it up hurts the flow of it imo.

This exactly.  If you are playing that much of it, or even all of it, it should be played all together.  Any splitting up of it makes no sense.

[wolfking]

You forgot Learning to Live.

[wolfking]

Yeah, gotta agree with hef and Blob.  No point splitting it up.  Why on earth would you stick Just Let Me Breathe or Burning My Soul between 1928 and Strange?

[GentlemanofDread]

Oh boy, this is the time for researching the SFAM tour setlists. I'll post the wackiest I can find

[GentlemanofDread]

Well, there wasn't any wacky-wacky setlists, but here's the "essential non full SFAM" setlist from 8/27/2000, Mexico City, Mexico.

Laura Palmer's Theme (intro tape)
1.  Metropolis part 1
2.  Overture 1928
3.  Strange Deja Vu
4.  Fatal Tragedy
5.  The Mirror/The Mirror (reprise)
6.  Just Let Me Breathe/
7.  Acid Rain/
8.  Caught in a New Millennium
9.  Another Day
10.  guitar solo/
11.  Gladiator Theme
12.  Home
13.  keyboard solo
14.  Erotomania (w/ extended drum fills)
15.  Voices
16.  The Spirit Carries On
17.  Learning To Live (w/ extended keyboard solo)
~~~encore~~~
Dead Poets Society (intro tape)
A Change of Seasons:
18.  I The Crimson Sunrise
19.  II Innocence
20.  III Carpe Diem
21.  IV The Darkest of Winters (w/ new solos)
22.  V Another World
23.  VI The Inevitable Summer (w/ extended guitar solo)
24.  VII The Crimson Sunset
~~~encore 2~~~
25.  When Images and Words Unite medley:
26.  Pull Me Under/
27.  Under a Glass Moon/
28.  A Fortune in Lies/
29.  Only a Matter of Time/
30.  Take the Time (w/ excerpt of Whole Lotta Love (Led Zeppelin) on the last chord)

[SuperTaco]

Well, there wasn't any wacky-wacky setlists, but here's the "essential non full SFAM" setlist from 8/27/2000, Mexico City, Mexico.

*snip*

Oh amazing setlist, how I wish I could have witnessed your greatness in person.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, gotta agree with hef and Blob.  No point splitting it up.  Why on earth would you stick Just Let Me Breathe or Burning My Soul between 1928 and Strange?

Up next: we put You Not Me in between The Mirror and Lie!

[chaossystem]

Well, I DID say that any and all criticism would be welcome.

Now I know why they say "be careful what you wish for!"

However, I was hoping that at least some of you would know that that meant you could say something like "I don't like this arrangement. Let's do it THIS way instead..."

I also gave warning up front that I would NOT be presenting the entire story from beginning to end, un-interrupted.

{I wanted to do something DIFFERENT.}

What I had in mind was a presentation of all of the songs (Except "Through Her Eyes.") as individual performances, and with some differences in the way that some of the songs are played, not a "straight reading" of the story.
I forgot to mention that in this version there wouldn't be all of the sound effects, such as the screaming, gunshots, etc., and if the hypnotherapist voice is used at all, it would be the original recording from the original album.
Also no psychedelic, eye-straining images on the projection screen, no blurry hundred-year-old photographs that gradually become clearer. Like I've already said: they could do all of that stuff again in 2019, for the album's TWENTIETH anniversary...

There could be some films on the screens to go with some of the songs, but I would also prefer a more elaborate lighting rig, like they had on the last couple of tours.

I also wanted to say in my defense that other bands have given similar treatments to their concept albums:

-Iron Maiden, on the "7th Son" tour omitted several of the songs from that album, played several songs in between, and didn't even play the ones that they DID play  from the album in the right order!

-When I saw Queensryche on their "Q2K" tour, they played several songs from "Operation:MindCrime," but they broke it up with several other songs, such as some that were new at the time, several from "Empire," and a few others, and I didn't hear ANYONE complaining!

-On the "Nostradamus" tour, Judas Priest only played about two or three songs from the album, instead of playing it all the way through.


...And Kev, it was "Under a Glass Moon..."

[hefdaddy42]

None of us understand WHY you would split it up.  It makes no sense.

[chaossystem]

None of us understand WHY you would split it up.  It makes no sense.

Well, then, how would YOU do it differently? Or would you just repeat the entire "Live Scenes" show all over again?

To elaborate on what I said before:I don't mind the criticism, but try to show that you have at least a LITTLE BIT of imagination.

Please.

[hefdaddy42]

I wouldn't do it at all. I am reading the thread out of vague interest.  I am just saying that I don't understand playing that much of SFAM and breaking it up.

[chaossystem]

Well thank you for your (vague) interest.

[rumborak]

I'm not sure I understand the purpose of setlist threads anyway. I mean, sure is it important what songs are played at a show, but for me the order is rather unimportant, provided it's not jarring or nonsensical transitions.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I have liked your setlists up to this point. But as everyone else has said, if you're going to include that much of SFaM, you shouldn't break it up. It's meant to tell a story and works much better if played front to back with no other songs in between. In all fairness, the LSFNY setlist was a perfect combination of songs that were out at that point and really is probably their greatest setlist ever so any setlist comprised of songs from that point won't be as good, but your setlists for this make no sense at all.

[wolfking]

-Iron Maiden, on the "7th Son" tour omitted several of the songs from that album, played several songs in between, and didn't even play the ones that they DID play  from the album in the right order!

-When I saw Queensryche on their "Q2K" tour, they played several songs from "Operation:MindCrime," but they broke it up with several other songs, such as some that were new at the time, several from "Empire," and a few others, and I didn't hear ANYONE complaining!

-On the "Nostradamus" tour, Judas Priest only played about two or three songs from the album, instead of playing it all the way through.

Both of your setlists have all the songs from the album bar Through Her Eyes, so you are basically playing the full album.  These bands never played the full album or close to the full album live out of order. 

When Queensryche played Mindcrime they played it in full or did it in a shortened set with a selection of the songs as a suite.  Other times when they played songs out of order, the album wasn't represented as much as Scenes is here.

Maiden never said 7th son was a full concept album.  It is debatable, but it has a theme, but is not a full concept album like Scenes or Mindcrime.  Maiden have never played 7th Son in full and never really intended too, nor did it need to be treated that way.  Especailly when half of the album was released as singles.

Priest should have never put the idea out of playing the full Nostradamus live.  I think they realised it wouldn't have been in their best interest.  They only played two songs and that was enough to represent the album.

Saying all that, just because a band doesn't play a full concept album live, it doesn't mean they shouldn't play any songs from the album at all, which is something I agree with in your idea.  Any song from a concept album has the right to performed live, but playing all but one song yet splitting up the order and even breaking up tracks that clearly go together is just a bit pointless.

[RoeDent]

Yeah, gotta agree with hef and Blob.  No point splitting it up.  Why on earth would you stick Just Let Me Breathe or Burning My Soul between 1928 and Strange?

Why on earth would you stick Just Let Me Breathe or Burning My Soul on a setlist at all?

Agree with most here though. SFAM, when played complete, should be played as it is, in full, in order.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, gotta agree with hef and Blob.  No point splitting it up.  Why on earth would you stick Just Let Me Breathe or Burning My Soul between 1928 and Strange?

Why on earth would you stick Just Let Me Breathe or Burning My Soul on a setlist at all?

Because they're cool rocker tracks. They can't all be 20 minute prog epics.

[seasonsinthesky]

a second of silence between "Overture 1928" and SDV doesn't mean sticking a song between can work (unlike splitting TMW/FT, for instance, which is why you stayed away from that). in particular, neither FII song you chose flows well at all imo, especially not trying to pick up SDV directly afterword: the song makes no sense without an intro! just move those songs to follow SDV and no problemo — they flow better anyway.

the only spot it makes any sense to me to insert other songs would be between the two acts, after "Through Her Eyes." there's a natural 'side split' (DSOTM-style) there anyway, and you can then round out the evening with the second half of the story after playing a nice set of oldies in between, and then coming back for the ACOS encore or whatever.

[GentlemanofDread]

Well, hmm. I'm going to create a setlist.

Laura Palmer Theme
1. Overture 1928
2. Strange Deja-Vu
3. Lines in the Sand
4. Beyond This Life
5. Another Day
6. Through Her Eyes
7. Home
8. Erotomania
9. Voices
10. The Silent Man
11. The Spirit Carries On
12. Finally Free
(Encore Tape: Eve)
13. A Change of Seasons
14. Metropolis Part 1

That's about two hours worth of music, but I'm sure I can get a 3 hour setlist for An Evening With Dream Theater show.

[Rodni Demental]

Well, there wasn't any wacky-wacky setlists, but here's the "essential non full SFAM" setlist from 8/27/2000, Mexico City, Mexico.

Laura Palmer's Theme (intro tape)
1.  Metropolis part 1
2.  Overture 1928
3.  Strange Deja Vu
4.  Fatal Tragedy
5.  The Mirror/The Mirror (reprise)
6.  Just Let Me Breathe/
7.  Acid Rain/
8.  Caught in a New Millennium
9.  Another Day
10.  guitar solo/
11.  Gladiator Theme
12.  Home
13.  keyboard solo
14.  Erotomania (w/ extended drum fills)
15.  Voices
16.  The Spirit Carries On
17.  Learning To Live (w/ extended keyboard solo)
~~~encore~~~
Dead Poets Society (intro tape)
A Change of Seasons:
18.  I The Crimson Sunrise
19.  II Innocence
20.  III Carpe Diem
21.  IV The Darkest of Winters (w/ new solos)
22.  V Another World
23.  VI The Inevitable Summer (w/ extended guitar solo)
24.  VII The Crimson Sunset
~~~encore 2~~~
25.  When Images and Words Unite medley:
26.  Pull Me Under/
27.  Under a Glass Moon/
28.  A Fortune in Lies/
29.  Only a Matter of Time/
30.  Take the Time (w/ excerpt of Whole Lotta Love (Led Zeppelin) on the last chord)

Damn, DT must have been getting tired of playing it in one go. I'm surprised they did such a setlist. Still looks awesome though.

But I'm sure that there are also several of you who will agree with me that we could have done without the chopped-up versions of some of the songs, and things like attempting to combine "Caught in a Web" and "New Millennium" into one song wasn't the BEST move on their part.

Well, just to clarify (although a lot of people probably already know this), New Millennium wouldn't exist if the band hadn't been jamming with CIAW and trying some different grooves. This version is still a mash up for sure, but the song started out by bringing in some grunge/alt-rock/industrial elements into the CIAW piece. Hence the version known as 'Caught In Alice's 9 Inch Tool Garden' which contained many of the riffs that would become part of NM.Then NM came to be, then Caught in a New Millennium was done which integrates the completed features of NM into CIAW. Confused? I kind of am. But I like both songs and the mash up. I think the mash up could have been better if James nailed it or was into it a bit more, I think that's what lets it down for me. To be fair on James, he did perform it after a massive Scenes set.

[chaossystem]

Not bad, Dread.

But I hate leaving out "Fatal Tragedy" and "The Dance of Eternity."

But I'm sure other people hate the omission of "Through Her Eyes."

Oh Well. To each their own, as I've already said several times on this forum.

Also I wanted to let you know that the way I come up with my arrangements is to use "Windows Media," and then burn it onto a couple of reusable discs to play it back and see how it sounds.

So each show would be about 160 min., or one 80 min. set, and then a second set plus encore.

Anyway I worked out ANOTHER arrangement that still won't be perfect for everybody, but SFaM isn't NEARLY as broken up this time as before. It's called COMPROMISE, people!!!

I still like my second idea best, but this one is just about as good...

Set 1:
If we HAVE to have an intro tape, I would like it to be "Eve"
1) Just Let Me Breathe
2) Scarred
3) Metropolis
4) The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun
5) Regression
6) Overture 1928
7) Strange Deja Vu
8) Through My Words
9) Fatal tragedy
10) Beyond This Life
To stay within the "Three hours or less format" most of the songs and music would have to be "played straight' but maybe we could ad an extended part-like a keyboard "jam"- to "Beyond," to make the first set a little longer than 80 min.
11) Peruvian Skies
12) Lie

I don't really what to do for an intermission. Maybe more of those funny YouTube videos.

Set 2:
1) Under a Glass Moon
2) The Killing Hand
3) New Millennium
4) 6:00
Maybe there could be a drum solo before, during or after 6:00.
5) Home
6) The Dance of Eternity
7) One Last Time
8) The Spirit Carries On
I would like to see John Petrucci play a slightly extended version of the intro that he played on the "Score" version.
9) Finally Free
Finishing this one like they did the "Live Scenes" version.
Encore:
10) Pull Me Under
I don't f***ing CARE about all of the people who are going to BITCH that "This song shouldn't be the encore! Toughsky crapsky! Not only is this how want it, but a lot of people in the audience will still only KNOW them (or at least mostly) by that one song, so they will probably be DELIGHTED to have them finish with it.

[chaossystem]

Damn, DT must have been getting tired of playing it in one go. I'm surprised they did such a setlist. Still looks awesome though.


Well, just to clarify (although a lot of people probably already know this), New Millennium wouldn't exist if the band hadn't been jamming with CIAW and trying some different grooves. This version is still a mash up for sure, but the song started out by bringing in some grunge/alt-rock/industrial elements into the CIAW piece. Hence the version known as 'Caught In Alice's 9 Inch Tool Garden' which contained many of the riffs that would become part of NM.Then NM came to be, then Caught in a New Millennium was done which integrates the completed features of NM into CIAW. Confused? I kind of am. But I like both songs and the mash up. I think the mash up could have been better if James nailed it or was into it a bit more, I think that's what lets it down for me. To be fair on James, he did perform it after a massive Scenes set.
[/quote]

To respond to the first part of what you said, Rodni, that's why I've been  trying to come up with something different.

As for the second part, it sounds like they were trying to combine bits and pieces of music by Alice in Chains, 9 Inch Nails, Tool, and Soungarden.
Never cared for most of that stuff.
"Mash up" seems like a VERY appropriate term for it, and yes, it is VERY confusing!
Oddly enough, though, "New Millennium" is one of my favorites. I would have to say that when they recorded it in it's original form (the FII and Budokan versions) they apparently had worked all or most of the "bugs" out of it.
I'm not really a big fan of "Caught in a Web, mostly because the words are so damn hard to understand.

[chaossystem]

Sorry I screwed up the quote on that one.

the first two parts were written by "Rodni," and the rest of it is me.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

You can edit your posts you know.

[chaossystem]

I know.
I tried to make the quote shorter, but I deleted too much, so it ended up the way it did.

[bosk1]

I'm rather tired if the confrontational posts practically daring people to disagree with you and/or arguing with people when they do.  Your setlist theads are done.  And if you keep arguing with people on this forum, YOU will be done.