What do you 'feel' DT lacks?

[GentlemanofDread]

DT lack enough cowbell.
There must be more.

[nikatapi]

As it was said, a better sound production. After SDOIT it's been kind of a downhill, and it's a pity given that they spend a lot of money on making an album.

Also i feel like JP's playing lacks the jazzy elements it had on I&W, Awake and FII, and it's mostly metal oriented these days which sometimes is predictable and not that interesting.

[James Mypetgiress]

DT need more dubstep! "I'm running from the enemy insiiiiii DROP THE BASS"

[PixelDream]

As it was said, a better sound production. After SDOIT it's been kind of a downhill, and it's a pity given that they spend a lot of money on making an album.

Also i feel like JP's playing lacks the jazzy elements it had on I&W, Awake and FII, and it's mostly metal oriented these days which sometimes is predictable and not that interesting.

That's exactly it. Hit the nail on the head with that one.

[Kotowboy]

What do I Feel Dream Theater lacks ?!









Feel.

[rumborak]

I think JR does a really good job with the atmospheric stuff, but it's easy to overlook it cause his solos are often noisy messes. Sure, he has some wonderfully emotional solos, but they are the exceptions, not the norm, since, more often than not, his solos are just noisefests where he sounds like he is trying to bend notes into submission, and it's a shame, cause they often detract from the many good contributions he adds to the DT mix.

Agreed, and I'll go further and say that this is the worst thing about DT right now. JR's solos often amount to mindless scribbling and frittering between a few key notes, without rhyme or reason. It is a shame, because we all know he is a true virtuoso capable of true elan and beauty.

I thought Enigma Machine reached a new sad height in that regard. That 2nd keyboard solo sounds like he's doing a firmware update.

[Chino]

Hot chicks at concerts.

[sneakyblueberry]

Since the departure of Portnoy, I think they've lacked a strong background/harmony vocalist.

Was Portnoy a strong backgroung/harmony vocalist?

EVERYONE SURVIVED

ROAR

Yes he was.  Much more versatile than JP anyway.  The fact that they're using his BV's live today is testament to that.

The most obvious 'lack' in DT is the lack of showmanship since Portnoy's departure.  Noone has been able to fill that void.

Oh, also, shit drum sounds on the studio recordings.  God.  So many lacks. 

[rumborak]

Yes he was.  Much more versatile than JP anyway.  The fact that they're using his BV's live today is testament to that.

More versatile in his attempts, I would give you that. But, MP's problem was that he didn't apply the same perfectionism to his vocals that he did to everything else. Some of the stuff they released with his backing vocals is just plain laughable. A lot of people hate on the visuals on LSFNY, but IMO the worst part are MP's vocals.

Showmanship i fully agree though. I think Mike correctly perceived that DT has an issue with engaging with the audience. He was never particularly good at it ("eat my ass and balls ", *shudder*), but at least he tried.

[BlobVanDam]

I think JR does a really good job with the atmospheric stuff, but it's easy to overlook it cause his solos are often noisy messes. Sure, he has some wonderfully emotional solos, but they are the exceptions, not the norm, since, more often than not, his solos are just noisefests where he sounds like he is trying to bend notes into submission, and it's a shame, cause they often detract from the many good contributions he adds to the DT mix.

Agreed, and I'll go further and say that this is the worst thing about DT right now. JR's solos often amount to mindless scribbling and frittering between a few key notes, without rhyme or reason. It is a shame, because we all know he is a true virtuoso capable of true elan and beauty.

I thought Enigma Machine reached a new sad height in that regard. That 2nd keyboard solo sounds like he's doing a firmware update.

Enigma Machine was a lost cause long before JR's inclusion. It's not like he's bringing down a classic here.

And I'll take average live vocals from MP over canned JLB backing vocals any day. Seeing JP mouthing along with a JLB vocal is the biggest downer on both LALP and BTFW for me, and more "laughable" than anything MP did.

[KevShmev]

Except that it's been established about 182 times now that JP actually is singing along there, not just "mouthing along."  Just because you can't hear him doesn't mean he's not singing.

[lucky7]

A second concert for Melbourne! 

A DVD from the Black Clouds Silver Lining Tour. 

Seriously, I do miss MP he was quite entertaining at concerts etc.
 
Mike Mangini was also entertaining as Steve Vai's drummer ... but then his kit was a lot smaller back then. Quite often at the end of a show he like to flash his butt to the audience....but I also remembered he had a huge smile the whole show.

I do think JP is an awesome guitarist on his own but rather than Jordan playing parts that sound like guitar on the keys it would be good to see JP with a rhythm guitarist, I love Steve Vai but it is also great to see Dave Weiner with then rhythm guitarist. (obviously the difference is most of Vai's stuff is without vocals)

[BlobVanDam]

Except that it's been established about 182 times now that JP actually is singing along there, not just "mouthing along."  Just because you can't hear him doesn't mean he's not singing.

Whether or not he's technically singing something is a moot point (and not proven), because the end result is the same. For the last 2 DVDs JP mouthes along to vocals that are clearly not his, and it looks silly.
If he's singing, why not mix it in, or have him dub it himself afterwards? I like his voice, so I want to hear him! I don't care if it's not as good as JLB's backing vocal, and don't expect it to be.

[wolfking]

A second concert for Melbourne! 

Or even a single concert in Brisbane. 

[Lucien]

Experimentation. They love the little box they stay in. Jordan Rudess does awesome improvisation on his piano that you can see on Youtube. Ever hear something like that on a DT album? No, they're a "progressive metal" band. Some days I wish everyone would throw off their labels. The Easter Egg was the closest thing they got to getting out of that box. I guess the orchestra counts too, but there's always the SDOIT Overture. This is the only thing I hope for DT13. Cut open that box and breathe a bit.

[sneakyblueberry]

Amen Lucy

[tiagodon]

I´d say:

1) better bass production (turn it up!);
2) better drum production;
3) better stage presence.

[Mindflux]

I know it's kind of a contradiction to progressive music, but I'd say they lack in album consistency/quality.

BC&SL, ADTOE, DT12 just don't do it for me.  It's been a downward spiral for a while now.

[lucky7]

A second concert for Melbourne! 

Or even a single concert in Brisbane. 

Yes, that is pretty shite! I wonder why they decided to just do the two, especially since they haven't been here for a few years now.
 Hope you are able to get to either the Melbourne or Sydney show.

[BlobVanDam]

A second concert for Melbourne! 

Or even a single concert in Brisbane. 

Yes, that is pretty shite! I wonder why they decided to just do the two, especially since they haven't been here for a few years now.
 Hope you are able to get to either the Melbourne or Sydney show.

I believe the reason they gave Australia a pass last tour is because we're an expensive place to tour, and it probably wasn't financially viable for them.
I think playing only Sydney/Melbourne was a compromise to be able to play Australia this tour, to minimize the travel costs. Our major cities are so spread out, that it must be really expensive to have all of that gear moved around the country for only a handful of shows. They're also playing a smaller venue here in Sydney. Not sure about in Melbourne.

It is a shame they weren't able to book more shows, but given the option of two major cities vs none, I know which I'd choose! Luckily one of the shows is close to me, so I'll be able to attend.

[Xenon]

Experimentation. They love the little box they stay in. Jordan Rudess does awesome improvisation on his piano that you can see on Youtube. Ever hear something like that on a DT album? No, they're a "progressive metal" band. Some days I wish everyone would throw off their labels. The Easter Egg was the closest thing they got to getting out of that box. I guess the orchestra counts too, but there's always the SDOIT Overture. This is the only thing I hope for DT13. Cut open that box and breathe a bit.

This resumes most of my thoughts very well.
+10 for you man. 

[manticore999]

I think they lack 'craftsmanship', whatever the hell that is.   I remember the SFAM commentary when (and I forget who it was) they said that they agonized over the line 'wept just like a baby', because babies don't weep.  They cry, they scream, but they don't weep.  The went with it, because after all the agonizing those lyrics fit the best.  They used to take such care over the lyrics and, I believe, over the music (Home, anyone?).  Now it's like 'ok, lets write an album - jam a bit, throw some lyrics together (I mean, holy shit - TCOT!  Seriously?).  Lets write some cool riff, repeat a bunch of time, throw in a bunch a solos that don't match anything but are technically proficient and call it an album'.  They're amazingly talented, but song-writing is not something they seem capable of.   The last 2 albums are at least steps in the right direction but after 6DOIT they just seemed to lose the ability to write.  They're kind of getting there again, but I'm not sure they're able to break out of the 'corporate' mold and do something interesting again. 

[425]

1. Better production. Please. Smaller bands, like Haken (won't be able to say they're smaller for too much longer, but right now it's still true), have consistently put out very good sounding releases, while Dream Theater's albums continue to sound not very good. In 2013 Haken put out a very well-engineered album in The Mountain; while Dream Theater, with much more experience, on a bigger label, and with presumably a bigger budget, released an album that was brickwalled all to hell. Even the HDTracks version, though not as brickwalled, sounds really muddy and what I would call artificially heavy. Just... I know it's not easy to produce an album that sounds good, but if Haken cares enough and can afford to hire somebody who can do it, I really don't see why DT can't as well.

2. Backing vocals. Not just live, though that's most important, but in studio as well. Remember that from 1997 to 2009, John and Mike did backing vocals in studio, too. Their voices are all over SFAM and equally as prominent (or more so) on albums like SDOIT, SC and BCSL. To me, that lends a more authentic feel than hearing five JLBs everywhere. Plus there are parts that are just better suited to a more "average guy just carrying the tune" tone than JLB's operatic style. For example: "Running forward, falling back" in Full Circle. Mike especially also offered a lot in the way of vocal texture. I don't just mean by providing harsh vocals in songs like ANTR and CM. Some of my favorite vocal parts in DT come from Mike singing either behind or in tandem with James in a way that adds great texture to the music. One example that springs to mind is "Never could have just a part of it, always need more to get by..." in The Root of All Evil. That line sounds great thanks in no small part to Mike's voice. I also appreciate his sort of weird decision to throw in falsettos for texture from time to time. Like in Prophets of War or, of course, The Test That Stumped Them All. I don't mean to say this just about Mike, though. John could very easily do a lot of the same things, but for whatever reason he just doesn't, so this kind of stuff, which I personally find really cool, is missing from ADTOE and DT12.

As for live vocals, this:

Whether or not he's technically singing something is a moot point (and not proven), because the end result is the same. For the last 2 DVDs JP mouthes along to vocals that are clearly not his, and it looks silly.
If he's singing, why not mix it in, or have him dub it himself afterwards? I like his voice, so I want to hear him! I don't care if it's not as good as JLB's backing vocal, and don't expect it to be.

3. Mike Portnoy in general. I accept he's gone and accept that it's for the best for everyone, and like Mike Mangini a lot. But I honestly feel that DT today lacks the presence of a Mike Portnoy whose heart is in it, who gets along with everyone in the band and who perhaps has a better understanding of his role in it. I know this is an impossibility and as I've said I completely accept that and agree that Mangini in the band is better than Portnoy in the band, given how relations are between him and the other band members today and given the fact that his heart is probably not in it. But that's what I feel is missing.

[Podaar]

Enough fans!

[Outcrier]

Now it's like 'ok, lets write an album - jam a bit, throw some lyrics together (I mean, holy shit - TCOT!  Seriously?).  Lets write some cool riff, repeat a bunch of time, throw in a bunch a solos that don't match anything but are technically proficient and call it an album'.  They're amazingly talented, but song-writing is not something they seem capable of.

Yep, i agree with that. I said a long time ago that i think DT still make some great sections but fail to make a whole song full of great sections, if you get what i'm saying.

[DerekTheater]

Other than Myung, they all lack restraint. Rudess tries too hard to sound like a 70s prog keyboardist...or a Nintendo 64 game.

[Madman Shepherd]

They love the little box they stay in.

Little box?

I'd say its a pretty big box. 

[Tick]

This is not addressed to the thread starter, its just my thoughts...
If complex music with odd time signatures equals "lack of emotion" then Dream Theater isn't your thing. Listen to Cold Play. I never really got the DT lacks emotion thing. I never agreed with it.
I don't think this band lacks anything.

[adamack]

I think there are 2 kinds of emotion we're dealing with here.

There is the "just broke up with significant other", standard, contemporary love song emotion. The radio stuff. (There are lots of really good songs in this genre, so I'm definitely not knocking it.) The songs with lyrics that plainly state what you're going through. Something you can tap into instantly, and feel a connection with the words to deal with your relationship issues.

Then, there is DT emotion. The end of Octavarium, when JP comes in with one of the most bone-chilling guitar solo moments ever. And a bit before that, when the orchestra comes in (after the "trapped inside this Octavarium" part). The chorus of Finally Free...etc. I could go on for days, as EVERY last one of DT's songs is emotional some way, in a dramatic and theatrical sense.

The difference is, that the typical DT emotion is less accessible than the radio breakup emotion. The lyrics aren't always transparent. You usually need to invest a bit more time into it. Not with all DT songs, but with most.

There is a place and time for everything. If you are in the mood for a love song with lyrics are transparent and state exactly what you're going through, then maybe a contemporary love ballad is more appropriate for you at the time.

Similarly, if you are just in the mood to get goosebumps from hearing dramatic music which builds, climaxes and leaves you in awe from its huge-ness, then something like Octavarium may be better.

The point is, DT's music is incredibly emotional.  Just maybe not in a "standard" sense but rather in a more "epic" sense.

Again, a place and time for both, and both are wonderful in their own rights. Just my thoughts...

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I never really got the DT lacks emotion thing. I never agreed with it.
I don't think this band lacks anything.

This.

The "technicality = lack of emotion/soul" argument is so contrived, it baffles me. Whatever you wanna call "emotion" in music has no preference for its complexity. It can come in simple 4-chord structures or deviating time signatures. Either can be done horridly, and either can be done well.

[Kotowboy]

If Dream Theater songs lack emotion because they can play extremely well -

- that must mean that bands like White Stripes are 100% emotion because they're shit musicians.

[KevShmev]

What's odd is how people always assume that sappy/sad/happy stuff is the only emotional stuff.  A lightning fast guitar solo DOES have emotion; aggression is an emotion!  So, even if you think Dream Theater's music is too fast/too technical/too whatever, it doesn't mean it's not emotional; it only means it's not the emotion you are looking for.

[Kotowboy]

What's odd is how people always assume that sappy/sad/happy stuff is the only emotional stuff.  A lightning fast guitar solo DOES have emotion; aggression is an emotion!  So, even if you think Dream Theater's music is too fast/too technical/too whatever, it doesn't mean it's not emotional; it only means it's not the emotion you are looking for.

Or people assume that a solo lasting 3 minutes can't be emotional . But The Best Of Times solo crushes that theory.

[Raise the Drum]

Mystery and Surprise

I've always been amazed with DT's new albums because of that.
I started being a DT fan with TOT, after that Boom! Octavarium, then after that another radical turn with SC.
With BC&SL i didn't feel so much of a radical change but it still surprised me.
With ADTOE and DT12 i waited patiently the surprise and it kept coming, but always in smaller amounts.

For a new album i would like to see and feel that surprise again.
Also it seems that with MP departure and MM addition the guys left ADTOE and DT12 for doing this "back to the roots" and "this is DT" thing.
Maybe it's time for them to move on and go back out there to get in love with their music again.

(Sorry for my english, i'm from Chile)   

[lucky7]

A second concert for Melbourne! 

Or even a single concert in Brisbane. 

Yes, that is pretty shite! I wonder why they decided to just do the two, especially since they haven't been here for a few years now.
 Hope you are able to get to either the Melbourne or Sydney show.

I believe the reason they gave Australia a pass last tour is because we're an expensive place to tour, and it probably wasn't financially viable for them.
I think playing only Sydney/Melbourne was a compromise to be able to play Australia this tour, to minimize the travel costs. Our major cities are so spread out, that it must be really expensive to have all of that gear moved around the country for only a handful of shows. They're also playing a smaller venue here in Sydney. Not sure about in Melbourne.

It is a shame they weren't able to book more shows, but given the option of two major cities vs none, I know which I'd choose! Luckily one of the shows is close to me, so I'll be able to attend.

I understand the cost bit, I suppose I just look at Satriani and Vai who do all the major cities every time....except Tas. they miss out every time.

I feel the same way, glad we are getting the opportunity to see them at all.

The Melbourne concert is at the same venue....but we did have two shows last time.