A thread for DT's Epics?

[RoeDent]

Tbh, maybe DT should have put all of SDOIT on one track, then there'd be no need for this debate. And it would force people to listen to the song as intended, as a single work, or face the inconvenience of having to fast-forward for long spells to reach a particular bit they like.

As for my favourite epic, it has to be A Change of Seasons! Seriously, that song is an absolute masterpiece! When I've finished listening to it, I forget that 23 real minutes have passed.

[MiracleSleeper]

@MiracleSleeper

My complaints are the same as most....Part 1 is actually pretty cool, and part 2 is either forgettable or just plain silly.  (The whole dark master section is just painful to get through)    So based on that, and taking the entire piece as a whole, I just find it to be the weakest of all their epics by an extremely wide margin.  All the others are so good that it's hard to rank them at all.   With ITPOE, there is no question.   It's just a mess.

Now are you saying that Part 2 doesn't work musically, or lyrically?

[hefdaddy42]

I would imagine he means both.

[Dublagent66]

6DOIT is split up into like, what, 8 different tracks? But that's viewed around here as an epic.

I really like to think SDOIT as an album in an album, it doesn't work for me if I think that it's one song.

"An album in an album" doesn't make any sense.

Well, it is a double album and the title track is long enough to be an album in and of itself, so I'm not quite sure how that doesn't make any sense.  Even if he was just speaking figuratively.

1. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulance
2. A Change of Seasons
3. Octavarium
4. In The Presence of Enemies
5. The Count of Tuscany




















6. Illumination Theory

Fixed

[Zydar]

1. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
2. Illumination Theory
3. A Change Of Seasons

4. Octavarium
5. The Count Of Tuscany
6. In The Presence Of Enemies

[TAC]

1. Octavarium
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. The Count Of Tuscany
4. In The Presence Of Enemies
5. Illumination Theory
6. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence

[CharlesPL]

1. A Change Of Seasons
2. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
3. Octavarium
4. Illumination Theory
5. The Count Of Tuscany


6. In The Presence Of Enemies

[The Holy Tune]

I thought Octavarium would never lose it's place at the top, but the new DVD shaked me up. Now it's like:

1-Illumination Theory
2-Octavarium
3-A Change of Seasons
4-6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5-The Count of Tuscany
6-In the Presence of Enemies

[lucky7]

1. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
2. Octavarium
3. A Change of Seasons
4. The Count of Tuscany
5. In the Presence of Enemies

I hate to admit it, but I don't even know Illumination Theory by title alone...I will have to listen to Track 9 a bit more me thinks. 

[mikeyd23]

I'd say...

1. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
2. Illumination Theory
3. A Change Of Seasons
4. Octavarium
5. The Count Of Tuscany
6. In The Presence Of Enemies

Numbers 2,3, and 4 are interchangeable depending on my mood though.

[TheCountOfNYC]

To me, a Dream Theater epic is a multi part song over 20 minutes in length.

Illumination Theory is only over 20 minutes long because of the easter egg  I get what you mean though.

TCoT is made longer by the nature sounds at the end. 8VM is made longer by TRoAE intro at the end. ItPoE is made longer by the wind in between parts 1 and 2. 6DoIT is made longer by the extended fadeout. The only one that isn't lengthened by "ambiance" is ACoS. To my ear, TCoT is structured more like a very long song. I'm not knocking the song because as I said, its my second favorite DT song only behind 8VM. The only point I'm trying to make is that every song being discussed in this thread besides ACoS is extended beyond it's regular music in some way 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah but IT is made longer by a stretch of silence and then a bit that as far as I know isn't technically part of the song.

wait why are we even arguing about this

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know, but IT isn't like those other examples, FWIW. 

[KevShmev]

Tbh, maybe DT should have put all of SDOIT on one track, then there'd be no need for this debate. And it would force people to listen to the song as intended, as a single work, or face the inconvenience of having to fast-forward for long spells to reach a particular bit they like.

 

I probably wouldn't listen to it that much at all if they had done that.  I listen to the last four parts of it quite a bit, but the first four parts, not so much (although I did listen to War...and Test... a lot back when it first out). 

Anyway, Illumination Theory has risen to top 3 for me, only bested by A Change of Seasons and Octavarium.  ITPOE obviously sits at the bottom.

[PROGdrummer]

1. A Change of Seasons
2. The Count of Tuscany
3. Octavarium (long intro kinda drags it down)
4. In The Presence of Enemies
5. Illumination Theory


I dont even consider SDoIT an epic. For what its worth, I dont consider Transatlantic's The Whirlwind an epic either. It's definitely just a "suite". Its the same situation with SDoIT.

[adamack]

1. Octavarium - Easily a top 5 DT song for me. It has not gotten old, and likely never will.

2. A Change Of Seasons

3. SDoIT - Used to be my favorite, but it has not held up as well as the above 2

4. The Count Of Tuscany - Used to hate it, now I love it

5. ITPoE

6. Illumination Theory - Has one of the highest highs (orchestral section), but everything after the orchestral part is sub-par to me

[DerekTheater]

Anyone who saw TCOT live knows it's an epic!

[BlobVanDam]

Anyone who saw TCOT live knows it's an epic!

The outro of that song was the most epic moment I've seen of DT live.

[King Postwhore]

I loved it as well

[The Letter M]

Ahh, did somebody say epics? My favorite kind of prog! Hmmm, let's see...

1. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
2. Octavarium
2. A Change Of Seasons
4. Illumination Theory
5. The Count Of Tuscany
5. In The Presence Of Enemies

8VM and ACOS are pretty tied, IMO, and they can swap spots every now and then depending on my mood. The album 8VM was their first new one after I became a fan, so it holds a special place in my heart, as does the title track. But the lyrical and musical subject matter of ACOS is also very near and dear to me, so it's got a lot of pull as well. DT's latest epic is pretty damn good, so it sits right under those, while their 9th and 10th album epics are tied below that.

-Marc.

[IdoSC]

Sooo here's how it goes for me

===Eargasm / "Jesus christ these are the best songs ever and I will love them all the way to my grave" tier===
1. Octavarium (tears in my eyes. I cri every tiem)
2. Illumination Theory
3. A Change of Seasons
Honorable mentions: Learning to Live (awesome but not an epic), Metropolis Pt. I (same), Another Hand/The Killing Hand (same), A Change of Seasons 1989-1990 demo (seriously that shit's great)

===Awesome songs/always-fun-to-listen-to tier===
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Honorable mentions: Breaking All Illusions (it's about as good as Learning to Live but at this very day I'm a little burned out, it may slip into the higher tier every now and then), Finally Free, Vacant followed by Stream of Consciousness (sounds about as "epic" as any epic DT song in terms of scale and emotional prowess)

===Great epics I rarely listen through tier===
5. In the Presence of Enemies (to listen to this song, I need the same mood I have when I play an adventure/RPG game or watch some adventurous show. It doesn't happen much).
6. The Count of Tuscany (it's pretty good, but I don't really feel it. Sometimes it's fun for the riffs. Happy Holidays 2013 made it much easier to embrace it, though)
Honorable mention: The Ministry of Lost Souls, Sacrificed Sons, and more psuedo-epic songs that require the right mood.

[adamack]

Anyone who saw TCOT live knows it's an epic!

The outro of that song was the most epic moment I've seen of DT live.

Oh man I can only imagine! I hope they decide to play it live again sometime down the road.

[MiracleSleeper]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned "The Odyssey" and "The Divine Wings of Tragedy" in any of their lists...





...wait a second.

[adamack]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned "The Odyssey" and "The Divine Wings of Tragedy" in any of their lists...





...wait a second.

Triiiiiiummmmphannnt, Champion of Ithaca 

[hefdaddy42]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned "The Odyssey" and "The Divine Wings of Tragedy" in any of their lists...





...wait a second.

If this is a joke, I am not getting it.

[clinks63]

i'm checking on how can you hardly define "epic" music. we know it should be long but how do you consider a song as an epic song? how "mind beside itself" or "trial of tears" is categorized?

i was able to see the same thread back in 2011
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=24681.0

1. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
2. A Change Of Seasons
3. The Count Of Tuscany
4. Octavarium
5. In The Presence Of Enemies
6. Illumination Theory

[Outcrier]

The way i rank them:

Excellent, among their best songs:

1 - Octavarium
2 - A Change of Seasons
3 - Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

Good:

4 - In the Presence of Enemies

Meh:

5 - The Count of Tuscany
6 - Illumination Theory

[jammindude]

Actually, I have always counted A Mind Beside Itself as a single epic, and I just spaced it this time. 

1. Octavarium
2. A Change of Seasons
3. Six Degrees
4. A Mind Beside Itself
5. Illumination Theory
6. The Count of Tuscany
















7. In the Presence of Enemies


Really, those top 6 and incredibly hard to rank for me.   Octavarium is easily #1, but the next 5 could all be traded with one another at any given moment.   And Enemies is just really not good at all.   (except some brief shining moments in the first part)

[adamack]

The way i rank them:

Excellent, among their best songs:

1 - Octavarium
2 - A Change of Seasons
3 - Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

Good:

4 - In the Presence of Enemies

Meh:

5 - The Count of Tuscany
6 - Illumination Theory

Nice! Same as mine, except our #4 and #5 are switched.

[sylvinception]

- I - Awesome EPICS ranking  :

1 - A change of seasons
2 - A mind beside itself (Erotomania/Voices/The silent man - do I cheat ??  )
3 - Six degrees of inner turbulence
4 - Illumination theory
5 - Octavarium
6 - In the presence of enemies.


- II - Awesome FU LONG songs  :

1 - Trial of tears
2 - Scarred
3 - Learning to live
4 - Bridges in the sky
5 - Breaking all illusions
6 - In the name of god.