Systematic Chaos is amazing.

[Dublagent66]

It's a good album but I wouldn't quite call it amazing and when it came out in 2007, people here bashed the shit out of it.  I rank it higher than DT12, but disagree about PoW being catchy.  I think it's the one song that knocks the album down a notch.  However, it's the only song on the album that I don't like that much.  SC has got a lot more memorable material than DT12 easily.

[ori.elias5]

When i first heard it, after reading the negative reviews I was pretty shocked because the album actually was great.

TMOLS is just haunting beautiful, but than it drags too much. ITPOE P.1 is a great song, while P.2 begins great but the 2nd half- a lot of wankery.

songs like POW and Forsaken are just nothing special, perhaps 2 of the songs i don't really care about. Repentance contains one of the most touching solos by JP but after the solo its  4 min filler.

CM and DEN are fun at times, but usually i prefer other songs on them.

As a complete album, i find myself ignoring it too much although i like most of the individuals on it. idk, maybe the songs order should've been different and than maybe it wouldv'e been better but as for now, it is definitely lower tier DT album for me.

[tiagodon]

If this album was their debut, back in the 80s, DT would have been huge! They would have been battling for their place in the spotlight with bands like Guns N' Roses and Metallica.

[hefdaddy42]

If this album was their debut, back in the 80s, DT would have been huge! They would have been battling for their place in the spotlight with bands like Guns N' Roses and Metallica.

I doubt it.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

If this album was their debut, back in the 80s, DT would have been huge! They would have been battling for their place in the spotlight with bands like Guns N' Roses and Metallica.

What makes you think that?

[snapple]

Systematic chaos was the realization of a forumulaic Dream Theater, to me. ADTOE broke that (imo), but 8vm-bcsl are painfully mediocre.

[TAC]

I've always maintained since Day 1 that after the emotion of Score and that entire 8V tour, which really seemed to wipe them out, SC was like them taking a breath of air and simply making an album that was just fun. It's easy on the ears.
I think they defintely ramped up the writing for BC&SL.
But for me, SC was about them taking it easy. Nothing wrong with that BTW.

[King Postwhore]

Sort of what TAC said, this album never caught my imagination like the other albums.  Sure I still play it but not at the frequency I play other DT albums.

[tiagodon]

If this album was their debut, back in the 80s, DT would have been huge! They would have been battling for their place in the spotlight with bands like Guns N' Roses and Metallica.

What makes you think that?

Because I think SC is the most easy-listening album in DT catalogue. It's heavy, catchy and more "commercial" than the others, IMO. Forsaken, for example, coulde have become a hit in the end of the 80s/beginning of 90s, just like Paradise City or Enter Sandman.

[KevShmev]

If this album was their debut, back in the 80s, DT would have been huge! They would have been battling for their place in the spotlight with bands like Guns N' Roses and Metallica.

What makes you think that?

Because I think SC is the most easy-listening album in DT catalogue. It's heavy, catchy and more "commercial" than the others, IMO. Forsaken, for example, coulde have become a hit in the end of the 80s/beginning of 90s, just like Paradise City or Enter Sandman.

No chance.

[Outcrier]

Because I think SC is the most easy-listening album in DT catalogue. It's heavy, catchy and more "commercial" than the others, IMO. Forsaken, for example, coulde have become a hit in the end of the 80s/beginning of 90s, just like Paradise City or Enter Sandman.

No chance.

You're goddamn right.

Sorry, but Dream Theater is too cheesy to be "commercial".
Also, i'm gonna look like a douche saying that but i can't resist: how can anyone think Forsaken would be a hit like Paradise City or Enter Sandman...

[King Postwhore]

 

What?!  There's no cheese in popular music?!

Come on now Outcrier.

[Implode]

Forsaken isn't even good a DT song, let alone something that'd be a mega hit. It's bland an not memorable at all.

[Outcrier]

Forsaken isn't even good a DT song, let alone something that'd be a mega hit. It's bland an not memorable at all.

Yeah, exactly my thoughts.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

DT are just the kind of band that are never going to be popular with the mainstream. I don't know why some people have a hard time accepting that.

[BlobVanDam]

Forsaken isn't even good a DT song, let alone something that'd be a mega hit. It's bland an not memorable at all.

It's plenty memorable, and it's a good song, even though not one of DT's best by any stretch.
And plenty of hit songs aren't good, or even considered good by that band's standards. In fact it seems to be the norm.

Forsaken could have done well if released 5-10 years earlier, but there's no way anything from SC could have been a hit in the 80s or early 90s. It's too modern sounding. IaW could have been much bigger if released a few years earlier though.

[Outcrier]

What?!  There's no cheese in popular music?!

Come on now Outcrier.

Ha, i know that but, with progressive rock in general, it's just doesn't fit 

[King Postwhore]

That I totally agree.  In the 70's prog song did make the charts (See: Kansas) but now?  Not a chance.

[hefdaddy42]

If this album was their debut, back in the 80s, DT would have been huge! They would have been battling for their place in the spotlight with bands like Guns N' Roses and Metallica.

What makes you think that?

Because I think SC is the most easy-listening album in DT catalogue.

FII would like a word with you.

[tiagodon]

SC is more digestible to me than FII.

Forsaken is a really good song! And I wouldn't classify it as prog metal. It sounds very traditional heavy metal to me!

Enter Sandman is not even a good song and made it to the spotlight. I really think Forsaken would have made it to the charts!

[jammindude]

Sometimes people lump 8V and SC together...I totally don't see any similarities of any kind.   Octavarium is my all time favorite #1 Dream Theater album of all time, and SC is just a mess.   Other than The Dark Eternal Night (which I absolutely love) I never listen to it.   ITPOE Part 1 is OK, Forsaken is terrible.  Constant Motion is a pretty cool riff, but the chorus is awful (I think I wrote those lyrics when I was 12 after listening to Motley Crue for a week).    Already gave my love to TDEN.  Repentance is better when it's played with the rest of the 12SS, but it's the weakest part of the suite, and not very good on its own.   Prophets of War is the worst song in the entire DT catalog.   I've grown to like TMOLS a bit more than when I first heard it, but it's still forgettable.   And ITPOE Part 2 is just silly.    ITPOE is my least favorite DT epic...and actually the only one I actively don't like.

In fact, I'd say that about sums up this album for me.   I have some DT albums I like better than others, and some that I'm luke warm on...but I just actively dislike Systematic Chaos, and it's the only DT album I can say that about.    BCSL is a close second, but at least I can claim ambivalence towards that one.   

[ThatOneGuy2112]

DT are just the kind of band that are never going to be popular with the mainstream. I don't know why some people have a hard time accepting that.

This, very much.

[TheGreatPretender]

It's a killer album and every song on it is fantastic. I don't know how people define "mainstream" but right now, there are probably less than 10 Metal bands out there that I'd call mainstream. But this album really should be given more credit in the Metal community specifically.

Also, i'm gonna look like a douche saying that but i can't resist: how can anyone think Forsaken would be a hit like Paradise City or Enter Sandman...

Well, because Paradise City isn't even that good of a song, and it became a hit, which means strictly speaking, anything could become a hit, so there ya go. 

[Zook]

I think DT have plenty of songs that could be big hits, but Forsaken isn't one of them. I don't think it's bad, but it isn't really that exciting either. In fact, it's kind of boring.

[rumborak]

Probably the weakest album they released to this point.

[tiagodon]

I think DT have plenty of songs that could be big hits, but Forsaken isn't one of them. I don't think it's bad, but it isn't really that exciting either. In fact, it's kind of boring.

A hit is always unpredictable!
Every Nirvana song is boring! Every Oasis song is boring! Coldplay, Bon Jovi.... you name it!

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

No, they're not!

[King Postwhore]

I think DT have plenty of songs that could be big hits, but Forsaken isn't one of them. I don't think it's bad, but it isn't really that exciting either. In fact, it's kind of boring.

A hit is always unpredictable!
Every Nirvana song is boring! Every Oasis song is boring! Coldplay, Bon Jovi.... you name it!

Except DT will never have their following to get radio airplay.

[Zook]

No, they're not!

I agree. Bon Jovi has some decent songs.

[rumborak]

PMU was the only chance of a hit they ever had, given the style of music they play. At that time it still somewhat intersected with mainstream, but then quickly after that operatic singing and fast solos became associated with the excesses of glam metal, and so they became marginalized. For a very long time they were musicians making music for musicians.
Now they're frankly too old to have a hit.

[Zook]

PMU was the only chance of a hit they ever had, given the style of music they play. At that time it still somewhat intersected with mainstream, but then quickly after that operatic singing and fast solos became associated with the excesses of glam metal, and so they became marginalized. For a very long time they were musicians making music for musicians.
Now they're frankly too old to have a hit.

Ozzy still has "hits".

[Kotowboy]

something about Octavarium being mediocre..

O_o

[BlobVanDam]

PMU was the only chance of a hit they ever had, given the style of music they play. At that time it still somewhat intersected with mainstream, but then quickly after that operatic singing and fast solos became associated with the excesses of glam metal, and so they became marginalized. For a very long time they were musicians making music for musicians.
Now they're frankly too old to have a hit.

Ozzy still has "hits".

He has singles, but I wouldn't really say they're hits that drive album sales. The difference is that he's established enough that singles are just standard advertising for existing fans to know there's an album. It's unlikely he's gaining a significant number of new fans from "hits" these days. Same with DT.

[Zook]

PMU was the only chance of a hit they ever had, given the style of music they play. At that time it still somewhat intersected with mainstream, but then quickly after that operatic singing and fast solos became associated with the excesses of glam metal, and so they became marginalized. For a very long time they were musicians making music for musicians.
Now they're frankly too old to have a hit.

Ozzy still has "hits".

He has singles, but I wouldn't really say they're hits that drive album sales. The difference is that he's established enough that singles are just standard advertising for existing fans to know there's an album. It's unlikely he's gaining a significant number of new fans from "hits" these days. Same with DT.

As he shouldn't be. Not until he releases some decent music akin to his 80s stuff anyway. Pipe dream?

[King Postwhore]

Ozzy's singles were always radio airplay not top 40 and since radio has changed, radio and his singles in the 2000's are irrelevant.   Sad to say.