Systematic Chaos is amazing.

[tiagodon]

I'm obviously not talking about vocal qualities, that is a totally different matter. But yes, if DT had made their concerts more of an "personalized event",  by for example having a strongly engaging front man, they would have been bigger, IMHO.

I get what you're saying, and somewhat agree. I think Metallica is a great example of this. Their music is hardly simple or particularly accessible, but they are astronomically big and so much of that is down to Hetfield's charisma.

Metallica is a prog metal band that keeps their songs in the 4/4 tempo and in the 6/7 min length and avoids the double-bass drumming... They play a very commercial prog. And, of course, we have Hetfield's charisma.
[yes, I think Metallica is prog!]

You're wrong.

There's nothing right or wrong about music, my friend.
It's all about what means to you and what makes sense to you.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

If we're talking our opinion on it, of course. But Metallica is not a prog metal band, and no amount of reasoning is going to change that.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah long songs don't make one Prog.

[tiagodon]

Master of Puppets, And Justice for All and Death Magnetic sound very proggy to me.
Why SC is prog and these are not?

[BlobVanDam]

It's funny but I see The Dark Eternal Night as a cousin of Metropolis pt.1. Both have many similarities.

I don't think there many similarities overall, but the instrumental section is very reminiscent, very well structured, linear progression, not dwelling on one section for too long, dissonant harmonies, lots of chromatics and variations on musical and rhythmic themes. And also because the TDEN instrumental section is one of the best they've ever done.


And Metallica has never been prog metal. They've had some elements occasionally in there, but they've never pushed far enough to classify as prog.

[tiagodon]

And Pink Floyd has?

[King Postwhore]

A big hell yeah as symphonic prog.  Yes.

[hefdaddy42]

A big hell yeah as symphonic prog.  Yes.

[PROGdrummer]

And Pink Floyd has?

Have you heard Dark Side of The Moon?

[Outcrier]

And Metallica has never been prog metal. They've had some elements occasionally in there, but they've never pushed far enough to classify as prog.

At least, when talking about AJFA, there was "progression" in their sound 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

progression metal

[TheGreatPretender]

And Pink Floyd has?

Echoes. That's all I gotta say.

[MiracleSleeper]

And Metallica has never been prog metal. They've had some elements occasionally in there, but they've never pushed far enough to classify as prog.

Well that depends on how you want to look at it. Have Metallica ever been specifically a Progressive Metal band? No. But they do have quite a few songs that I personally would definitely consider are Progressive. I'm not just referring to their older songs either. Listen to songs like "Bleeding Me" and "The Outlaw Torn" for example.

[TheGreatPretender]

Well that depends on how you want to look at it. Have Metallica ever been specifically a Progressive Metal band? No. But they do have quite a few songs that I personally would definitely consider are Progressive. I'm not just referring to their older songs either. Listen to songs like "Bleeding Me" and "The Outlaw Torn" for example.

Yeah, but I can't think of too many bands that don't deviate from a very narrow definition of what genre they are. I mean, Iron Maiden has dabbled in prog elements countless times, too. Heck, Dream Theater themselves, I can't honestly listen to every song and say, "This song is of the prog metal genre." I mean, listen to The Silent Man, or Hollow Years, or Far From Heaven. There's nothing really prog or metal about them. Maybe in the grand scheme of things, it makes DT more prog because they're willing to dabble in a wider array of styles and influences. But on their own, those songs wouldn't be classified as prog or metal.

My point is, that just the same, not every song Metallica puts out has to be classified as "Thrash Metal" and certain songs they made may be classified as prog metal, but that doesn't make them a Prog Metal band.

[Infinite Cactus]

As far as the topic is concerned, Systematic Chaos was the first album by DT that I waited in anticipation for. When I got into them, it was mid 2005 or so. All I remember was Octavarium had just got out. I got into them through Images and Words and Live at Budokan. I enjoyed 8vm and distinctly remember the free download of Constant Motion, I enjoyed it but it felt different. I had a lot of bad things going on in life and was hopeful to have some music to distract me from it. Initially, I enjoyed it for the most part, I never did like TMOLS, I still think it's the most boring song they've ever done and just bad in general. Several songs grew on me though, and ones I liked at the time (I'm looking at you Forsaken) I never listen to anymore. Still, while I feel the album lacks I still enjoy ITPOE pt1, Constant Motion, TDEN, and POW. I like bits of ITPOE Pt.2 but I think the first is definitely better. I don't hate the album, I just never feel like listening to all of it.

[DerekTheater]

It's a decent album, but easily their worst.

[BlobVanDam]

It's a decent album, but easily their worst.

Until you recall the repressed memory that WDADU still exists.

[Jaq]

It's a decent album, but easily their worst.

Until you recall the repressed memory that WDADU BC&SL still exists.

Fixed that for you. 

[BlobVanDam]

It's a decent album, but easily their worst.

Until you recall the repressed memory that WDADU still exists.

Fixed that for you. 

It doesn't count as fixed when you do it wrong.

[Jaq]

Me thinking BC&SL is their worst album is as right as you thinking WDADU is their worst album. OPINIONS 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Guys obviously TOT is the worst

[BlobVanDam]

Guys, please stop having wrong opinions.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Oh fuck you're right. WDADU sucks. What was I thinking?!

[BlobVanDam]

You clearly weren't!

[TheGreatPretender]

I think we can all agree that I&W and SFAM are by far their two worst albums.

[Outcrier]

I think we can all agree that I&W and SFAM are by far their two worst albums.

And that Systematic Chaos is by far their best album i know it's one of your favorite DT albums, just joking with you.

[DerekTheater]

I'm in the minority here, but BC&SL is a great album. A return to songwriting, less meandering, and the heaviness works and doesn't sound so forced and silly like it did on SC and TOT. I don't like the growls, but at least there's no Muse/Radiohead/U2-wannabe track.

[Grizz]

Hey, we actually agree on something!

[Zook]

Nothing sounded forced and silly to me on Train of Thought.

There's a lot of sillyness to be had on BCSL though.

[JiM-Xtreme]

Can someone tell me if there's a "BC&SL is amazing" thread already? If not, I may just have to go and start one.

[Zook]

Can someone tell me if there's a "BC&SL is amazing" thread already? If not, I may just have to go and start one.

But that would be lying, and lying is wrong.

[Kotowboy]

Can someone tell me if there's a "BC&SL is amazing" thread already? If not, I may just have to go and start one.

But that would be lying, and lying is wrong.

  Lying makes teh babi Jesus CRI EVRY TIEM !!!

[Kotowboy]

Nothing sounded forced and silly to me on Train of Thought.

There's a lot of sillyness to be had on BCSL though.

Indeed there's nothing quite as cringing as " Every1 survive ! Roarrrr ! " on Train of Thought.

[Grizz]

JLB rapping, QED.

[DerekTheater]

I love TOT, but there are way more goofy parts and attempts at being "tr00 m3t@l" on that one. BC&SL seems like a classic DT record in spirit, but people around here seem to say that about ADTOE and DT12, so what the fuck do I know?