Author Topic: Systematic Chaos is amazing.  (Read 16529 times)

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Offline XB0BX

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Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« on: October 02, 2014, 08:29:25 PM »
I truly believe that if it was released in 1994 a lot of here would be in love with it, because the melodies are catchy and memorable, and at the end of the day, that's the only thing that matters in music, no matter what style it is. Something tells me many of you hate Constant Motion, but something tells me many of you enjoy the melodies presented within the song.

So why then is it so hated?

Well, you tell me. Methinks that a lot of people only dislike it because the people around them dislike it and they subconsciously or consciously change their beliefs and actions to fit their preconceived expectations.

The fact remains that CM is catchy, DEN is heavy, Forsaken is beautiful, and Repentance is beautiful, Prophets of War is one of the most catchy DT songs ever written, and ITPoE is an indisputable DT classic epic. With that track record, you can't even argue: Systematic Chaos is amazing.

End of discussion.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 08:36:14 PM »
People don't like it because they don't like it. Simple as that. That album is a departure for DT, and for some people, it's just not their preference.

Me though? I love it. But I can accept that it's not everyone's cup of tea.
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Offline XB0BX

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2014, 08:39:45 PM »
People don't like it because they don't like it. Simple as that.

I would like to hear why people don't like it.

Offline lucky7

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2014, 08:45:36 PM »
I love it.....It is in my all time Top 5 from DT. :smiley:

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2014, 08:45:36 PM »
People don't like it because they don't like it. Simple as that.

I would like to hear why people don't like it.

They don't like the music that heavy. They don't like the harsher vocals. The don't like the long instrumental sections. They don't like the fantasy lyrics. Take your pick. I mostly don't agree with them, and think the album is underrated, but people have their own legitimate reasons. And I'm not looking forward to yet another SC bash-fest. :lol
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Implode

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2014, 08:47:57 PM »
It's just not my cup of tea like Blob said. They just focused on not exactly my favorite side of DT, but it's fine.

As for why, this is the best I can give. There is a type of song DT writes sometimes that just sounds bland to me. It comes across as just boring, standard DT sounding metal without any highs or lows. It just sits level, and I lose interest pretty quickly. Songs like this include, TDEN, Forsaken, Rite of Passage, Lie, the verses of Bridges in the Sky, etc. ITPOE is actually the best song on the album because it actually goes place. Although a few of those place aren't that interesting to me in the second half, I still listen to it from time to time. Repentance I have to be in a specific mood for. It's a little too mellow for me. TMoLS I wanted to like more than I did. It has some really amazing ideas, but unfortunately just can't stand on its weak points. While the chord structure is great, the melodies seem kind of obvious and thus make the song very trite to me. CM is similar in that if it were an instrumental, it'd be amazing. Unfortunately the vocals and melody just ruin it for me.

That's as good as I could do. It's hard to explain why you don't like something. It simply just doesn't resonate with me like it does to other people. That's an okay thing to happen. Some people just don't like DT in general that's okay too. People have different tastes.

That all being said, I like Prophets of War way more than most other people do. It might be my favorite off the album. That's kind of funny.

Offline Rodni Demental

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 08:49:02 PM »
Systematic Chaos is amazing.

Well.. yeah, of course it is.  ;)

I think it's a fair point that if it was released earlier in their career it might have been better received as it'd seem more cutting edge and have less expectations and comparisons associated with it. A lot of people are probably gonna say they don't like the direction of the production style, don't like the 'fantasy' lyrics, and don't like the elements that seem 'unlike DT', too much metal or wanking etc. :P

I find it a fairly experimental album in some ways and I really like that about it. Also, I was exposed to it as my second or third album (hard to say which one cause I heard bits of it quite sporadically and out of order). Also, CM is totally underrated imo at least around here.  :metal

And I'm not looking forward to yet another SC bash-fest. :lol

Me neither...  :rollin
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 08:57:34 PM by Rodni Demental »

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 08:51:02 PM »
Xbob, how many times are you going to make this thread?

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 08:53:36 PM »
Silly thread is silly.

Offline bl5150

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2014, 09:16:35 PM »
XBOBX's dedication to chaos is amazing.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2014, 09:19:18 PM »
XBOBX's dedication to chaos is amazing.

"Dedication to Chaos" sounds like a Megadeth album. :lol
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
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Offline Bolsters

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2014, 09:19:32 PM »
Xbob, how many times are you going to make this thread?
This is exactly what I was going to ask.

Bob, get some new material. Seriously.

Offline Implode

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2014, 09:20:31 PM »
I still hold to my belief that xbobx is an incredible 4th level troll.

Offline bl5150

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2014, 09:20:47 PM »
XBOBX's dedication to chaos is amazing.

"Dedication to Chaos" sounds like a Megadeth album. :lol

Dedicated To Chaos is a Queensryche album/beer coaster ...............although I know it as "Dedicated To Cabaret".
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2014, 09:23:02 PM »
XBOBX's dedication to chaos is amazing.

"Dedication to Chaos" sounds like a Megadeth album. :lol

Dedicated To Chaos is a Queensryche album/beer coaster ...............although I know it as "Dedicated To Cabaret".

I did not know that. The more you know!
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline bl5150

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2014, 09:27:09 PM »
I'm almost tempted to post that cabaret photo of the Tate-meister on the DTC tour in his rather revealing get-up - then you'd never forget.  I'll refrain though - you don't get enough sleep as it is  ;D
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Offline Ravenfoul

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2014, 09:30:47 PM »
I like CM. I also happen to like a few other songs on it as well. I personally like CM because of the vocals, but hey that's just me. TDEN is also a high up there favorite. Ministry ... well, it does have good bits but ultimately I only like it during those parts. I used to like Prophets of War but now I can't stand it.

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2014, 09:59:30 PM »
I think SC is the most consistent album and i just happen to feel that it is consistently awesome. 

One of only two albums that I love every single song (the other being ADTOE)

Offline Zook

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2014, 10:43:15 PM »
People don't like it because they don't like it. Simple as that.

I would like to hear why people don't like it.

Here goes:

Mike Portnoy sings too much
the chorus to Constant Motion is dull
Constant Motion has cool riffs, but has no lasting power
Neither does TDEN
Prophets of War is abysmal
20 years later, POW would still be abysmal
TMOLS is boring until the instrumental break, then gets boring again

That's about it, and that being said, I still like it more than BCSL... As in album. The Shattered Fortress and TCOT alone demolish SC, but if we're comparing albums, SC to me is better. I just never want to listen to it besides ITPOE sometimes.

Offline bl5150

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2014, 10:53:51 PM »
Aside from the instrumental section of ITPOE PT 1 , Constant Motion and Forsaken - which get occasional play - I really have no desire to hear any of the rest. It ranks as my second bottom ranked album , in between ToT (last) and BC&SL.
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Offline adastra

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2014, 10:54:31 PM »
In the Presence Of Enemies 1-2   Are pretty good, I like them a lot!
Forsaken is "Dream Theater for girlfriends" .  Nothing special.
Constant Motion,  Forgettable.
The Dark Eternal Night,  I don't like this song at all.  The effect on JLB's vocals on the first verse, the silly instrumental section. Don't like it :)
Repentance,  Boring?   If the song would have been cut for 3-4 mins it might have worked for me.
Prophets Of War, .....  :D
The Ministry Of Lost Souls ,  I loved this song a lot when the album came. It has some great melodies,  But the instrumental section is out of place and the song goes on and on.. and on and on..
Stay by my side / as I fade / so you can point to the end of my struggle /and the twilight of eternal days / at the low, dark edge of life.

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2014, 12:42:37 AM »
Well, there's this thread again. ::)

Whatever, I'll bite.

I don't dislike SC by any stretch. It's a good album, just not amazing. In the Presence of Enemies as a whole is great. Even though it's still my least favorite of their big epics, I enjoy it. It's heavy, aggressive, and has some killer instrumental stretches.

Forsaken is a decent track. Nothing about it besides the chorus really stands out for me, but it's a nice track.

Constant Motion has some good riffage going on, but Portnoy's vocals are what holds it back, as they do with the rest of the album (though not exactly enough to ruin the experience). Dark Eternal Night also suffers from what feels like an overly upfront, in-your-face, edgy attitude that juxtapose so glaringly with the serious and dark tone of the lyrics. The chorus is great, as well as some moments in the instrumental section, but I don't find myself returning to the song too often.

Repentance is perhaps slightly longer than it needs to be. I do like how mellow it is in comparison to the rest of the Twelve-Step Suite, and the vocal samples are a nice touch, but it could have benefited from some trimming.

Prophets of War is...well....not an outright bad song I wouldn't say. But it's not one I'm likely to revisit at all.

The Ministry of Lost Souls is great though. Emotional where it needs to be, but the instrumental section does feel quite jarring and out of place, which is what it mainly suffers from.

Offline gm5k

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2014, 12:57:56 AM »
XBOBX's dedication to chaos is amazing.

"Dedication to Chaos" sounds like a Megadeth album. :lol

Well Megadeth does have an awesome song called "Addicted To Chaos".  Sure there's a good chance you knew that, though...still a great track.  I'm gonna go listen to Youthansia now  ;D
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 01:04:07 AM by gm5k »

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2014, 01:05:26 AM »
XBOBX's dedication to chaos is amazing.

"Dedication to Chaos" sounds like a Megadeth album. :lol

Well Megadeth does have an awesome song called "Addicted To Chaos".  Sure there's a good chance you knew that, though...still a great track.  I'm gonna go listen to Youthansia now  ;D

Yep, I love Youthanasia, and that's definitely what made me think of it. :tup
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2014, 05:03:40 AM »
XBOBX's dedication to chaos is amazing.

"Dedication to Chaos" sounds like a Megadeth album. :lol

Or a Steven Seagal movie.

Offline Bertielee

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2014, 05:05:44 AM »
Answer : no!
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2014, 05:52:45 AM »
Systematic Chaos is in my lower tier of Dream Theater albums along ( for the ride lols ) with Awake and When Dream & Day Unite.

Offline JediKnight1969

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2014, 06:18:09 AM »
It took me sometime to fully appreciate it, but now I really like the album. It has great memorable melodies. As, or even more (unfairly) underrated as FII.
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Offline genome

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2014, 06:27:52 AM »
I do actually like the music, but the album comes across a little try-hard for me, I can't quite put my finger on it. Never vibed or connected with it.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2014, 06:50:42 AM »
Good grief.
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Offline Zook

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2014, 09:36:00 AM »

Offline OsMosis2259

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2014, 11:02:46 AM »
Things I like:
ITPOE PT1
Forsaken chorus
CM instrumental section
TDEN instrumental section (a fun song to see live!)
Repentance (extremely underrated, the second half does drag on at times but I do really like Porcupine Treeish harmonies in the vocals)
TMOLS
First half of ITPOE PT2

Things I don't like:
A lot of the lyrics
Overuse of Portnoy vocals
Forsaken, and CM just feel bland at times
PoW
ITPOE PT 2 instrumental section, the dark master sections

As far as the songs, it's just kind of a hit or miss.

That being said, I do think it's a fun album. The bonus disc is very entertaining and you can just tell the band just had fun writing/recording it.

Offline mike099

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2014, 11:58:48 AM »
I love the music, but get a little tired of the dark lord vibe.  Plus as a lot of folks have said, seems like they enjoyed the recording of this cd. 
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Offline adamack

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2014, 12:18:18 PM »
I love the album, though it has definitely lost a touch of its magic as newer DT releases came out.

As others have mentioned, I really do not like the "monster" and fantasy based lyrics. All that stuff is extremely cheesy to me.

However, the music supersedes all of that to a degree. Chaos is probably tied with BCaSL for me. Both of which I still like a touch more than DT12, and far more than Falling Into Infinity.

That is the great thing about DT. Even the albums which rank lower are still incredible albums.


Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Systematic Chaos is amazing.
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2014, 12:53:44 PM »
It's a good album, but it's not very cohesive and is DT's most inconsistent album. I have a feeling that the album suffers from being sandwiched next to two albums that are pretty much unanimosly considered better than it and that many people who hate DT use this as 'proof' of their opinion as they will get less flak for it than if they said Awake or SfaM sucked and this has sneaked into DT's fanbase but it's also possible (and probably more likely) that people just don't like the album. Here is what I think of the songs.

In the Presence of Enemies Pt. 1 is easily the best song on the album; brilliant and dynamic instrumental into, great vocal melodies, high amount of energy, well maintained atmosphere and a satisfying ending despite being only part one. Probably one of DT's best songs and the only song on the album to fire on all cylinders.

Forsaken is alright I guess. Many of the individual aspects are pretty cool like the main riff and the verses, but the song as a whole just seems a bit meh. Maybe it's just a bit too cheesy.

Constant Motion has one of the worst DT choruses, because you think the momentum may be kept up due to the thrashy verse, but then it comes into a really passive and slightly annoying chorus which seems way too happy for the subject matter and "FOREVERMORE, INTO THE NIGHT, BLISTERING!" is just too dumb. Then it just falters from there, as the Portnoy vocals kinda suck in the next verse and the lyrics stick out way too much at that point. The instrumental section can't really save the song and the "melodies presented within the song"? Some of their worst IMO. Quite a drop from even Forsaken.

The Dark Eternal Night is actually pretty good. Yup. The lyrics attract a lot of hate, but they seem so over the top and :metal that it's so obvious that they weren't serious. It really is just DT having a lot of fun in the studio, and you can tell, especially with that instrumental section, which sounds like a polished up version of one of their more bizzare jams. Hell, I don't even mind the Portnoy vocals as they fit the OTT vibe. Not among their best songs, but not really a bad song if you don't take it seriously.

Repentance is great with a very melancholic atmosphere, but I'm not sure what I think about the outro taking up 5 minutes of the song. For now, I'll say the song should've ended at least two minutes earlier.

Prophets of War... meh. I don't know why DT persist in ripping of other bands' songs so frequently (Muse in this case); it's probably my least favourite thing about the band overall. Why make a song when that song already exists? There's Metallica for CM, U2 for IWBY, Muse for this and NE, Red for BMU, BMD and Rush for TLG. Cut it out DT!

I haven't listened to The Ministry of Lost Souls in a while, so I won't comment on it apart from saying that I don't remember liking it.

In the Presence of Enemies Pt. 2 is not as good as Pt. 1, but it still rules.

So yeah, good album, but too inconsistent (unless TMoLS is much better than I remember it being) and there is so much better to choose from in their discography.