Author Topic: What did Prater say about MP's departure?  (Read 9257 times)

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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2014, 07:19:15 PM »
https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2002-07-05/96003/

So there is the article which I don't believe was posted yet in this thread

Say what you will about Prater but the for-profit prison industry is majorly fucked up.  I would believe everything Prater said just based off of crap I have read elsewhere. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2014, 07:26:50 PM »


And to be clear, I know next to nothing about Prater. At the same time I consider him and his opinions no more or less biased or credible than the opinions of him by a forum of people who by and large think he's the antichrist in a story of five Jesuses.

Agreed.

TGP, I think you *highly* underestimate MP's role in this clash. Look at the post-DT split shit show. MP is no stranger to spewing vitriol when he doesn't get his way.

Exactly, and he has a history of spinning the truth into his version of the truth and trying to pass it off as THE truth under the guise of "telling it like it is," so while Prater, by most accounts, appears to be a major dick, that doesn't mean he is a liar.

Offline Zook

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2014, 07:51:07 PM »
Hmm, Maybe KrotchRaut should change their name to Vitriol.

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2014, 06:48:55 AM »
https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2002-07-05/96003/

So there is the article which I don't believe was posted yet in this thread

Say what you will about Prater but the for-profit prison industry is majorly fucked up.  I would believe everything Prater said just based off of crap I have read elsewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pz3syET3DY

From the HBO Show Last Week Tonight, great funny but true rant about the US prison system.  Agreed, it is majorly fucked up.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2014, 04:56:03 PM »
Well, there's really no disputing that he got his face demolished.
That's a compound fracture of the mandible and a lot of missing teeth.

As for how it transpired, there are two things there. First, his account for how it went down made him look like the complete douche you make him out to be. He asked the lead gangbanger if he'd have his boys shut up so he could get some sleep. If you're going to make up a story you would probably come up with something that paints you in a less moronic light. Second, the attitude of the guards in that and other privately run prisons is pretty well known to be exactly what he described. It was other Wackenhut guards that testified on his behalf and in fact the State of Texas sued Wackenhut for failing to provide the proper security that they were obligated to under their contract.

And to be clear, I know next to nothing about Prater. At the same time I consider him and his opinions no more or less biased or credible than the opinions of him by a forum of people who by and large think he's the antichrist in a story of five Jesuses.
I'm not arguing that he got jacked up - it's true that he did. And I wouldn't doubt the fact that the guards and Wackenhut didn't do their jobs properly. But I still would question some of the details of his story. Considering how much he thinks of himself (such as his comments about how he fought Derek Oliver to keep JL in the band, that it was "his call" on whether JL stayed in the band or not), I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if he mouthed off to the gangbangers when making his request that they keep it down - in fact, the records say his response to them when they refused to quiet down was "Well, **** you then, see you in the multipurpose room." which sounds like a completely different person compared to "Could you ask some of these guys, please, because some of us have to sleep." Not that I'm saying that he deserved the beating he got, but I wouldn't be surprised if he mouthed off to some of the wrong people and had to deal with the consequences of that.

As for MP not being any more trustworthy in recalling what went down in Beartracks for the recording of IaW and ACoS, don't forget that there were several others who were quoted in Lifting Shadows that helped tell the story. If it was completely just MP vs. Prater, then you guys might have a point that MP's story is just as skewed as Prater's, but when you see JL arguing that Prater is full of it (see the top of page 102), then I think you need to reassess who's story is closer to the truth.

One further thing - since El Barto brought it up - I realize that Prater had some recovery time after his prison ordeal, but after that was over, what would've prevented him from continuing to produce albums? Especially with the lawsuit draining him financially, I'd expect him to be working double time to try to earn money to fill his drained bank account.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Calvin6s

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #75 on: January 22, 2015, 12:09:06 AM »
And case in point, when MP got to redo IAW, it sounded worse.
When did Portnoy redo I&W?  Is this the Greatest Hit album?

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #76 on: January 22, 2015, 05:02:27 AM »
And case in point, when MP got to redo IAW, it sounded worse.
When did Portnoy redo I&W?  Is this the Greatest Hit album?

Yea, the I&W tracks on the greatest hits album were remixed.  I personally do not like them compared to the original.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #77 on: January 22, 2015, 06:47:55 AM »
I don't either.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline rumborak

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #78 on: January 22, 2015, 07:40:02 AM »
I don't think there are a lot of people who prefer the remixes.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #79 on: January 22, 2015, 07:42:38 AM »
I don't think there are a lot of people who prefer the remixes.
Yeah, but I've read from some of them.

I'm not against the idea of remixes.  I just don't like how these turned out.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Calvin6s

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #80 on: January 22, 2015, 07:53:02 AM »
I don't have a good copy of the remixes because I don't buy greatest hit(s) albums except for bands that I only casually follow due to one or two songs that caught my ear.

So I listened to the YouTube version of it, but that's probably not fair way to judge the remixes.

Prater did a good job, so I wasn't really clamoring for a different mix (even with the triggered snare).

Offline rumborak

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #81 on: January 22, 2015, 08:22:47 AM »
I don't think there are a lot of people who prefer the remixes.
Yeah, but I've read from some of them.

I'm not against the idea of remixes.  I just don't like how these turned out.

Oh, yeah, in general there's nothing wrong with remixes. Clearly, the remix of Vapor Trails produced something much nicer.
I think, in order to produce better remixes for the DT-best-of, they would have needed a completely fresh producer to look t it. As it was, I think MP came in with a lot of baggage of what he perceived to be the "problems" of albums like IAW, so what they ended up with "fixed" thing that were never really broken (e.g. most people are fine with IAW's triggered drums), but didn't improve things that could have used improvements.
Particularly I don't like the vocal effects they put on for the remix. It makes James sound flat.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 08:27:51 AM by rumborak »
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #82 on: January 22, 2015, 08:26:01 AM »
I don't think there are a lot of people who prefer the remixes.
Yeah, but I've read from some of them.

I'm not against the idea of remixes.  I just don't like how these turned out.

Oh, yeah, in general there's nothing wrong with remixes. Clearly, the remix of Vapor Trails produced something much nicer.
That's what I keep hearing.  I guess I need to check it out.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Calvin6s

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #83 on: January 22, 2015, 09:28:05 AM »
As it was, I think MP came in with a lot of baggage of what he perceived to be the "problems" of albums like IAW, so what they ended up with "fixed" thing that were never really broken (e.g. most people are fine with IAW's triggered drums), but didn't improve things that could have used improvements.
Good point on the baggage.  I helped a friend record his band quite a few years ago. Most of the song's came out great, but one song was a bit thin.  It bothered me quite a bit that the one song just lacked the low end.

So I remixed it much later (months, maybe years later).  Since the portastudio was still hooked up with some of his FX units, I decided to remix all the other songs again.  The baggage of not enough bass in one song led me to adding way too much bass in the remixes.  So sometimes going in to do a remix without wiping away your preconceptions first usually makes exaggerated fixes.

The snare did sound better on the I&W remix, but everything else might have sounded worse.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #84 on: January 22, 2015, 10:38:12 AM »
The snare did sound better on the I&W remix, but everything else might have sounded worse.
I didn't think it sounded better.  It just sounded weird.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #85 on: January 22, 2015, 06:51:08 PM »
The snare did sound better on the I&W remix, but everything else might have sounded worse.
I didn't think it sounded better.  It just sounded weird.

I don't mind the remix at all but I don't necessarily think it is an improvement. 

I for one am not a fan of the triggered drums but this remix didn't make it better...it just put a different perspective on it. 

But yeah, the new snare sound is kind of weird. 

Calvin6s

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #86 on: January 22, 2015, 07:00:52 PM »
The problem with the original snare sound was not timbre, but dynamics.  Triggered drum sounds as a one off are usually painstakingly recorded, so on a one to one comparison, they usually sound better assuming they don't suggest a dated preference (the Phil Collins gated reverb snare).

Offline The Presence of Frenemies

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #87 on: January 22, 2015, 10:22:30 PM »
I love the original snare sound--love the big boomy '80s snare/bass/toms effect. The I&W snare is miles above the ACOS one, for example. The lack of dynamics is occasionally a bit glaring but has never really bothered me.

The other problem with the updated snare is that the rest of the tracks (notably JP and KM's) are intact in their original 80's-ish, "bright" form. Putting a more "modern" sounding snare in with those sorts of tones doesn't really fit. The only other sort of snare sound that would fit in the overall song contexts would've been more of a European power metal snare sound, which is a bit crisper but still is big and reverbed. If MP wanted the modern snare, he should've used newer live versions (where JP and, by then, JR used more updated tones) or just had everyone re-record the parts (except James, perhaps).
Yeah, I have no idea what the cakeless person in that analogy is meant to be eating. If he's got some sort of cake substitute, it should really have been worked into the narrative at some point. As it stands, the options are:

  • Hoard a cake just to stare blankly into its doughy edifice.
  • Make futile chewing motions with your mouth while starving to death.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #88 on: January 23, 2015, 07:07:34 AM »
One of the things in the remix that really struck me was the bass harmonics in the beginning of Pull Me Under.  Had never ever heard them before the remix.

Calvin6s

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Re: What did Prater say about MP's departure?
« Reply #89 on: January 23, 2015, 07:29:17 AM »
One of the things in the remix that really struck me was the bass harmonics in the beginning of Pull Me Under.  Had never ever heard them before the remix.
I agree.  The bass sound was awful though.