The PC thread

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

So I thought a thread that we could talk about hardware products, software, games, CGI, CAD or anything surrounding the PC would be fun. You can use the thread for either questions, troubleshooting, discussions, tips, news or whatever. I myself wouldn't call myself an expert in anyway but I know there's alot of knowledgeable members on the forum.



My first introduction to a PC was in the early 90s when my parents bought a Compaq PC (if I remember correctly). I do know that it contained the almighty gaming beast of a microprocessor Intel 80486 more common as the 486. I think it had a clock speed around 40-50mhz or something like that and ran win 3.1.
On that I played Wolfenstein 3D, MS Flight Simulator, MS Golf, Wing Commander and many more. Good times!
After that I abandoned the PC as a gaming platform by watching a buddy playing Tomb Raider on his brand new PS1. I was completely blown away by the suspense and them graphics. What was more awesome was that I realized it was much easier wishing for a PS1 for christmas than a PC which proved to be true. So I got sucked in the console swamp and stayed there for the next 10+ years.
It wasn't until a couple of years ago that I bought and buildt my first PC aimed for gaming. An i7-980 with a clock speed of 3.2Ghz which was a bit more speedy than the trusty 486. I'm not sure how of or if you can measure that. Would be cool if you could though.
It has since been quite heavily upgraded. I now run an i7-4770k with a GTX 780 as my trusty GPU. That damn thing cost me a kidney and a left nut even though I got it a good price but i'm more than happy with it. It's a beast or rather it was a beast a year ago when I bought it, everyone knows a CPU or GPU is "dated" as soon as it hits the market.


Some cool recent news:

Nvidias new 900 series GPUs was unvield a couple of days ago

A $1000 CPU anyone? Then the new Haswell-E 8-core CPU might be something for you!


Please feel free to discuss anything!

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

So it's windows 10 now not 9 for some reason and it comes with the OG start menu and you can even paste from the command prompt!! Ahh yea! I even heard win 8 users will be handed free updates....yea let's see about that! 

With Windows 8 and now Windows 8.1, Microsoft tried – not entirely successfully – to make tablets part of a continuum that goes from number-crunching workstations and high-end gaming rigs through all-in-one touchscreen media systems and thin-and light notebooks down to slender touch tablets.

The general consensus is that it still has a long way to go to produce a unified OS. Recently, Microsoft publicly made the first steps to doing just that, with Windows 10. Skipping the Windows 9 name entirely, the Redmond, Wash. firm aims to step into the next generation of computing with the right foot forward.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/29/6868005/join-us-september-30th-for-microsofts-windows-9-event/in/5910988

[Dimitrius]

I'm pretty sure Windows 8 went all the way to Windows 10 because it had a lot of XP.

[JayOctavarium]

I'm pretty sure Windows 8 went all the way to Windows 10 because it had a lot of XP.

Oh geeze...





That was funny.

[Tick]

I'm sorry, I thought this was the Politically correct thread. I have nothing to say about computers. Bye now.

[MetalJunkie]

Kind of a stupid question, but I don't know much about computer architecture. Is there such thing as an LGA 1156 to 1150 adapter for a processor? Is that even possible? My bottleneck is my processor, but it looks like I'm going to need a new motherboard, CPU, and possibly RAM. I'd like to avoid it if I could, but I'm thinking I can't.

[cramx3]

Kind of a stupid question, but I don't know much about computer architecture. Is there such thing as an LGA 1156 to 1150 adapter for a processor? Is that even possible? My bottleneck is my processor, but it looks like I'm going to need a new motherboard, CPU, and possibly RAM. I'd like to avoid it if I could, but I'm thinking I can't.

No, new motherboard is needed. And unless you already have a SSD or a Pentium processor, your hard drive is likely your bottleneck.

[MetalJunkie]

Kind of a stupid question, but I don't know much about computer architecture. Is there such thing as an LGA 1156 to 1150 adapter for a processor? Is that even possible? My bottleneck is my processor, but it looks like I'm going to need a new motherboard, CPU, and possibly RAM. I'd like to avoid it if I could, but I'm thinking I can't.

No, new motherboard is needed. And unless you already have a SSD or a Pentium processor, your hard drive is likely your bottleneck.

I'm a gamer, but my PC was built in 2009. I have an i5-750. I played WoW with crossfired 4850s and my fps was triple what I'm getting with a 3GB 7950, which is the only upgrade I've purchased.

[El Barto]

An I5 is not your bottleneck. Add to that, if you were getting 3x and it dropped to 1x after changing only your VGA, why would you think it was your CPU that's the problem? And honestly, that GPU shouldn't be a problem, either. I'd take the new card out and see if your FPS goes back up. If so, take it back and consider yourself $300 richer.

[cramx3]

Agreed and take that money and put it towards an SSD. Those things are magic.

[MetalJunkie]

I had read that older CPUs can cause newer GPUs to bottleneck. My main issues seem to be where there are effects in games that rely more on the CPU, as I understand it. Most games I have run fine, and run better since I got the card (a while back), but WoW has taken a massive performance hit, and the only piece of hardware I have that isn't up to date per their "recommended hardware" list is the CPU. They recommend the i5-2400, while mine is the 750.

[El Barto]

Looks like you jumped onboard with the core CPUs early on. That thing's pretty old. Still, I don't see how it'd be bottlenecking WOW. I don't play the thing, but my understanding is if it bogs down when 40 guys are on screen then it's your CPU. If it happens with certain effects it's your GPU. 'Bout all I know. Still, why not slap one of the older cards back in and see what happens?

And I just say that they've changed sockets on the Core CPU's at least 6 times. FFS, Intel! That is seriously uncool. I've built 3 computers for work in the last few months and I'm using AMD because they're still building stuff for AM2 and AM3. Changing architecture just to make people buy everything new instead of upgrading individual components really hacks me off.

[cramx3]

Yea Intel is insane with that, but then again they have a better overall product.  For a PC game though it is possibly for the CPU to be the bottleneck, and maybe I misunderstood thinking it was the bottleneck in general performance.  But then again, you say its only WoW so it could have something to do with how that game is coded.  I still stand by my general idea, SSD is the best thing you can do to increase overall performance.

[El Barto]

Yea Intel is insane with that, but then again they have a better overall product.  For a PC game though it is possibly for the CPU to be the bottleneck, and maybe I misunderstood thinking it was the bottleneck in general performance.  But then again, you say its only WoW so it could have something to do with how that game is coded.  I still stand by my general idea, SSD is the best thing you can do to increase overall performance.

A CPU can absolutely be the bottleneck in a game. I just don't figure it's the case here. Seems to me that the most recent expansion pack (which hasn't even been released yet) requires a Conroe or better, and his CPU outclasses that easily. It's possible he's having a driver issue. Unfortunately, monkeying with ATI drivers is about the most damn-fool thing I can imagine that doesn't involve sodomy and feral animals.

[Bolsters]

And unless you already have a SSD or a Pentium processor, your hard drive is likely your bottleneck.

I still stand by my general idea, SSD is the best thing you can do to increase overall performance.

I just wanted to chime in and say that this is incorrect. An SSD will improve load times, significantly if it's a good one, but gaming performance is purely down to the processing power of the CPU/GPU, amount of memory, memory bandwidth, and such. The hard drive is not part of this equation because data isn't streaming in large quantities from the drive while the game is playing (because it loads virtually everything that is needed in batches on your loading screens), so little that won't even saturate a mechanical hard drive's bandwidth capabilites let alone that of an SSD.

SSDs are great for reducing load times, but a mechanical drive will never be the bottleneck in a gaming rig. If someone wants better gaming performance from their rig the hard drive is the wrong thing to be looking to upgrade.

[cramx3]

And unless you already have a SSD or a Pentium processor, your hard drive is likely your bottleneck.

I still stand by my general idea, SSD is the best thing you can do to increase overall performance.

I just wanted to chime in and say that this is incorrect. An SSD will improve load times, significantly if it's a good one, but gaming performance is purely down to the processing power of the CPU/GPU, amount of memory, memory bandwidth, and such. The hard drive is not part of this equation because data isn't streaming in large quantities from the drive while the game is playing (because it loads virtually everything that is needed in batches on your loading screens), so little that won't even saturate a mechanical hard drive's bandwidth capabilites let alone that of an SSD.

SSDs are great for reducing load times, but a mechanical drive will never be the bottleneck in a gaming rig. If someone wants better gaming performance from their rig the hard drive is the wrong thing to be looking to upgrade.

Yes, but my quotes are about general performance not specifically gaming performance which I have stated all along that I was referring to.  I agree with what you say though with regards to gaming performance. 

[Chino]

Does any company make a PC equivalent of the Mac Mini that supports HDMI output? It doesn't need to be super powerful.

[Bolsters]

Does any company make a PC equivalent of the Mac Mini that supports HDMI output? It doesn't need to be super powerful.

Intel has a line of small computers like that called NUC. Gigabyte has basically the same thing with their BRIX products. There's probably more but those are the only I remember off the top of my head. Some of them might use mini-HDMI instead of full-sized but all you need is an adapter to use a full-sized HDMI cable with it.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Interesting insight into DIRAC Complexity System at the University of Leicester:

Supercomputer and the Milky Way
Building a Supercomputer and Astrophysics
Supercomputer Infrastructure

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

We will be making available a FREE UPGRADE to Win 10 to all devices running Win 8.1. And to all devices running Windows Phone 8.1. And for a year, a FREE UPGRADE from Windows 7.

[cramx3]

We will be making available a FREE UPGRADE to Win 10 to all devices running Win 8.1. And to all devices running Windows Phone 8.1. And for a year, a FREE UPGRADE from Windows 7.

Thats nice of them, I'd upgrade my laptop from windows 8 to 10, but I'll hold off awhile on upgrading my PC from 7 to 10. 

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Yea the full release won't be until the end of 2015 anyway but it's a good way of testing the OS before you buy it because I assume you have to buy the OS after 1 year? Or is it completly free, there has to be a catch, right?

Nevermind:

This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no additional charge..

https://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/
 

Win 10 is the only OS that will support DirectX12 so they sure now how to lure in the gamers.

Btw apparently they held their promise:

So it's windows 10 now not 9 for some reason and it comes with the OG start menu and you can even paste from the command prompt!! Ahh yea! I even heard win 8 users will be handed free updates....yea let's see about that! 

With Windows 8 and now Windows 8.1, Microsoft tried – not entirely successfully – to make tablets part of a continuum that goes from number-crunching workstations and high-end gaming rigs through all-in-one touchscreen media systems and thin-and light notebooks down to slender touch tablets.

The general consensus is that it still has a long way to go to produce a unified OS. Recently, Microsoft publicly made the first steps to doing just that, with Windows 10. Skipping the Windows 9 name entirely, the Redmond, Wash. firm aims to step into the next generation of computing with the right foot forward.

https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/29/6868005/join-us-september-30th-for-microsofts-windows-9-event/in/5910988

[cramx3]

Thats a good thing that they are going to the direction of Apple OSs, free OS upgrades on the same device.  While I understand the Windows OS upgrades have normally been pretty big overhauls compared to Apples, but it would be nice for Microsoft to have a standard type of OS (Windows 7) and then keep upgrading it and making it better without complete overhauls. 

[BlobVanDam]

I'd upgrade away from Windows 8.1 in an instant, because Windows 8 is such a huge step in the wrong direction. But if they're still calling programs "apps", maybe I'll have to think it over.

Good luck getting me to switch from Windows 7 though. You'll have to pry it from my cold dead fingers at this point.

[Calvin6s]

Good luck getting me to switch from Windows 7 though. You'll have to pry it from my cold dead fingers at this point.

I'm pretty happy with my Windows 7 also.  Partition the HDD and run 7 and 10 simultaneously?  I mean, free. (unless it immediately negates your Win 7 license)

[BlobVanDam]

Good luck getting me to switch from Windows 7 though. You'll have to pry it from my cold dead fingers at this point.

I'm pretty happy with my Windows 7 also.  Partition the HDD and run 7 and 10 simultaneously?  I mean, free. (unless it immediately negates your Win 7 license)

No idea how it would work, but I'm not into dual booting, at least on my main PC. Not worth the trouble of messing about. I'll probably upgrade my laptop which is running 8.1, and get used to it, then just upgrade outright next time I wipe the PC.

[kirksnosehair]

Dual booting using the same physical hard drive is a pain in the ass and not the ideal way to do it if you really must dual boot for some reason.


Consider using the VMWare Player to run your second OS on the same computer - AND AT THE SAME TIME - no need to shut down and reboot into a second OS, just press "play" on the VMWare player and you'll be good to go.  I run Windows XP Pro, Windows 7 Pro and Windows 8.1 Pro all on the same desktop PC all simultaneously.


By the way, the VMWare player is free for non-commercial use. 

[Calvin6s]

I run Windows XP Pro, Windows 7 Pro and Windows 8.1 Pro all on the same desktop PC all simultaneously.

Ever try using the Win XP virtual machine inside Win 7 Pro?  I set Win 7 Pro up and installed a very expensive program (thousands of dollars) that was made before Win 7 Pro, so if I try to install it on Win 7 Pro, the install program doesn't recognize the OS and refuses to install.  Windows isn't stopping it.  The $$$$$$ install program is stopping it.

So I did the Win XP virtual machine inside Win 7 Pro.  It installed, but it refuses to recognize the USB dongle and I don't think it found the network.  It also ignored the scanner and printer.  Basically, it seems like a useless environment.

I haven't tried installing Win XP by itself on a separate HDD, but I heard the new motherboards don't play well with it so it went into the To Do List (# 2983)

It has been a few years since I had a true dual OS setup.

[kirksnosehair]

Microsoft's XP Mode on Windows 7 leaves a lot to be desired.  USB support is a joke.  I'm telling you, man, download the VMWare player and use that to run your XP virtual machine.

[adace]

Microsoft's XP Mode on Windows 7 leaves a lot to be desired.  USB support is a joke.  I'm telling you, man, download the VMWare player and use that to run your XP virtual machine.

Thanks for the advice. Definitely gonna do this so I can switch back to Windows 7 in case Windows 10 sucks.

[Dimitrius]

Keep in mind that with virtual machines you're sharing resources between the host and the VM. So when you're setting up the VM, don't give it the same amount of RAM that you're host PC (you're real PC) has.

[faizoff]

Just installed the Windows 10 Tech preview, I think I preferred the previous version of the start menu. They've arranged the 'apps' on the start menu in the style of windows phone.

I put everything on VMs these days, they've come a very long way and I rarely ever have any issue. Then again I have a pretty kick ass computer to begin with.

Going to poke around this tech preview some more.

[adace]

Using Windows 10 right now and it's pretty cool. I really like the changes to the UI, especially the Music App which is a great alternative to Itunes. Haven't noticed any problems/performance issues so far.

Btw, does anyone know when they'll come out with the Xbox to PC streaming feature?

[Dimitrius]

The target is Holidays 2015.

https://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx

Go to the FAQ

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

https://www.slashgear.com/google-earth-pro-drops-399-subscription-now-available-for-free-31366926/

I don't know if the pro is that more useful than the regular version but anyway it's kind of cool. I like using GE from time to time, it's always fun searching for far out places and islands. You also get a sense of scoop for distance and how huge some areas and countries are.