DT & Jazz

[Rodni Demental]

When people use the phrase "prog" they aren't using it as short for the word "progressive", they are using it to describe a style of music.  "Prog" is marked by heavily orchestrated, composed, and arranged music, with little (if any) room for improv.

Jazz is all about improv.

I have no doubt that JR could play jazz, and he is an improv-ing beast, but other than a few brief moments here and there, I don't see any jazz influence whatsoever in DT's discography.

I understand what you're saying, and I know the term progressive and prog are mutually exclusive (even if occasionally inclusive) in relation to each other. DT have a few moments where they feel jazzy, but most of these moments are still contrived so it'll be the same everytime, but I still say progressive music is inclusive of jazz styles, which is why DT can be said to have jazz influence. Even if it's indirectly, a lot of the composition can still have jazz roots when it's first written and especially when it's improvised on the spot; before it's solidified into a fixed passage. Furthermore, I don't see how any of the 'carnival' passages could not have derived from improv and various forms of jazz styles. Even if you look at it the way Rumby put it, there's still an association (however fleeting) because of the structure of these passages which I believe originates in the writing process.

[tiagodon]

When I say jazz and prog are connected, I'm talking about attitude, not exactly music style or genre.
Jazz is an attitude, an attitude against popular musical structures, an attitude that values technique and complexity. Jazz bebop is musicians playing for musicians.
DT was the band that twisted the knob inside my head and made me start hating pop and simple musical structures. That's why, thanks to them, I started loving jazz.

[tiagodon]

To say that there arent plenty of prog bands who have a jazzy influence or even just jazz undertones in the music seems absurd to me. King Crimson doesnt sound like jazz at times? Goblin doesnt sound like jazz at times? Marillion doesnt sound like jazz at times? Steven Wilson doesnt just straight up have jazz segments in his songs?

Not all jazz is lively, free form and crazy improvisational all of the time.
Perhaps prog is more similar to jazz fusion than traditional jazz, but its jazz nontheless.

Listening to Trioscapes, for example. What would you consider that? Jazz or prog rock?
I say prog rock.

Trioscapes! Thank you Progdrummer. Loved it!

[tiagodon]

JP said recently that he would be probably playing in a jazz band if he was not in a prog metal band!

"If you went back in time to the beginning of your guitar career but had to play a style other than prog metal, what would you play?

Umm, other than prog metal? That's a good question. I'm kind of driven to challenging stuff so I guess that could be in any genre but it would probably be jazz. Or maybe it's a little bit too closed but the whole fusion thing. There was a big period where I was really into DiMeola and Jean-Luc Ponty and Return to Forever and all that stuff. Chick Corea. So I could picture that kinda style as well. Frank Gambali I got into. It's interesting and fun and really advanced harmonically and very challenging."

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/interviews/john_petrucci_answers_readers_questions_thanks_to_all_the_people_who_submitted.html?no_takeover

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, but he DIDN'T go into jazz.  He would have, but he didn't.

[tiagodon]

Yeah, but he relates to the attitude, and that's my point and that's why DT led me to jazz.
And that's why JP could end up playing jazz at the end of his career! That would be awesome!

[Outcrier]

I have some issues with brass instruments!  They are kind of annoying to my ears. That's why I don't enjoy Headhunters or Mile's Bitches Brew too much.

Well, that's like: Loves progressive metal/not enjoy Images and Words or Scenes from a Memory too much

When I say jazz and prog are connected, I'm talking about attitude, not exactly music style or genre.
Jazz is an attitude, an attitude against popular musical structures, an attitude that values technique and complexity. Jazz bebop is musicians playing for musicians.
DT was the band that twisted the knob inside my head and made me start hating pop and simple musical structures. That's why, thanks to them, I started loving jazz.

Well, there's nothing wrong with pop or simple musical structures, only if you gonna "generalize" them.

[Rodni Demental]

Yeah, I can relate. DT kinda put me off the general idea of songs being primarily and soly built on those structures, not to dismiss them completely because a fun catchy song with a simple progression are generally elements that describe some of best songs ever written. But it does start get old and tiring when you start recognising the same patterns in every generic track you hear on the radio. Some artists are pros at making magic out of those structures, but others seem to try and emulate the formula to fit in, and it's just kinda boring and manufactured by that point.