"Friend Zone" -- It's a noun and a verb

[Orbert]

At choir rehearsal, we're working on a new piece, and our director mentions that she knows the guy who wrote it.  This isn't unbelieveable or anything; she's been in the biz for many years and she picks all the music, so sure, it happens sometimes.  Someone asks how she knows him, and she says they knew each other in college, where they both studied choral music.  Being the smartass that I am, I ask "Did you date?"

She pauses for a second, then gets this smile on her face and says "He would have liked to.  But no."

I say "Ah, you friend-zoned him."

She's confused.  "I friend... what?"   

I repeat "You friend-zoned him.  You know, you put him in the friend zone."  I'm thinking maybe she'd never heard the term used as a verb before, but certainly as a noun.  I mean, most nouns can be used as verbs, and people will know what you mean even if technically it's not a correct use of the word.  Like sending something to someone and saying you "FedEx'd it" or charging something with a credit card and saying you "Visa'd it".

She thinks for a second.  "The 'friend zone'?  I guess I see what you mean..."  No, she's never heard the term before.   

I'm a tenor; tenors and basses (men) sit in the back row, sopranos and altos (women) sit in the front, and every single woman turns around and is looking at me, confused.

"What?" I ask.  "No one here has heard the term 'friend zone' before?"  Some of the guys say some reaffirming things, and suddenly I realize that this is a term that basically only guys use.  It has meaning to us; women tend to do it so naturally and without thinking that there's no need to even have a word for it.  They just don't think of it that way.

Or maybe because the term "friend zone" has a negative connotation for guys, but for women it's just something that's done to keep things simple in their relationships.

[Chino]

[Hyperplex]

That's because "friend-zoning" is a mental creation by guys to explain why a woman they like either sexually or romantically (or both) only feels platonically towards them. It's not likely an intentional thing women do, in the sense that they are simply friends, while the guy wants to be more. For whatever psychological, sociological or other reason, it seems men are more likely to be in the situation of unrequited feelings than women, inasmuch as a term would be coined for it.

To most women, "friend-zoning" just means being friends, while to men it's taken as a penning in of their emotions, a virtual imprisonment from which they can't escape.

At least that's my take on it. I've never been friend-zoned, at least not that I've known. I've also not really pursued anyone who would put me in "the friend zone." I personally believe it's a male creation to rationalize why someone they like doesn't like them in return. I find it kind of vilifying of women, too, because it tends to look negatively upon those who don't return the romance.

[dparrott]

There was an episode of Regular Show about this, that's the first thing I thought of.

[Chino]

That's bullshit. Girls know exactly what they're doing.

[rumborak]

Hyperplex, while i see what you are saying, the term is not without substance though. Who hasn't heard of stories of girls (but also boys) saying "I never looked at her/him that way, always considered him a friend. And suddenly that changed." So, there *is* that effect of habitually not even considering somebody as a potential mate, not necessarily out of sincere lack of attraction, but simply because it went down that particular track early on. That's the "friend zone", and indeed it is very hard to change that.

[hefdaddy42]

Yes, friend-zoning is real.

[Dark Castle]

Friend zone is just something a guy comes up with because they're pissy or upset that a girl doesn't share the same feelings for them.
You should be happy that someone wants to be your friend, even if they don't want to take it further than that.

[gmillerdrake]

That's bullshit. Girls know exactly what they're doing.

Yeah....she and every woman there know what the friend zone is. In fact, every one of them are involved in a massive competition to see how many guys they can get to fall for it and hang around in the friend zone.....and the women that are really good at it marry a dude and then get him to take a seat in the friend zone as well. Those women are considered the 'wizards' or 'Jedi' of the woman species.

[Hyperplex]

I'm not denying that it exists, I'm just saying that the colloquialism has been created as a way to "explain" the phenomenon. That said, it is extremely male-centric, and it has a stigma of placing guilt and blame on the girl for not returning the feelings, as if they were somehow owed to the guy who has them.

[gmillerdrake]

Guys call it the 'friend zone'.......girls call it the 'creep who wants to shag me zone'.....

[Chino]

There are girls that know full well that a guy is in love with them and they'll let him go for months thinking he has a chance. They should woman up and let the guy know right away instead of emptying his wallet for an entire summer.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

just posting here to say that "woman up" is an awesome term

[RuRoRul]

In recent years it seems there has been a big backlash against this term by feminists claiming the idea itself is mysoginist... Personally, while I am sure the term has been used by people in sexist or downright hateful rants, it is a perfectly fine term for situations that could apply to people of any gender, but, as you have observed, tends to apply more to guys being "friendzoned" by girls.

I don't have statistics to back this up, and it may be influenced by media portrayals as much as real life (although as we all know, art imitates life and life imitates art), but from all my experienceds by impression is this:

1. In male-female friendships (assuming they are both attracted to the opposite gender), it's more likely that the guy will be interested in the girl romantically or sexually than the other way round. By this I mean that, in the absence of other obstacles (e.g. both are single), it is more likely that the male would be willing to start a relationship (or even just sleep with) the female than the other way around. So there are a lot more cases of guys that are friends with girls they would be interested in doing more with than the other way round.

2. Girls in general seem to have a more binary distinction between "romantic interest" and "just a friend" than guys do. In addition, this is not just a case of having friends that you would never be interested in - it's the "I don't think of them that way" factor at play, not just the fact that the girl would never be interested in them anyway.

For those reasons (which, again, are just my suspicions about reality based on anecdotal evidence rather than anything I have statistics for) I think the "friend zone" is a useful term, and though it can cut both ways it more likely applies to the standard guy being in the "friend zone". Also I would consider it basically a descriptive term that can apply to a bunch of different scenarios, rather than one that assigns blame to one person or the other. I am sure scenarios could exist ranging from both extremes, from the blameless angel unknowingly friends with a vile mysoginist who is basically a rapist  and believes being "nice" entitles him to sex, to the evil bitch manipulating and stringing along the heroic, sensitive guy and deliberately taking advantage of him and what he does for her while banging the biggest douchebags in the universe just to make him feel bad.

Saying someone was in the friend zone (or whatever else you call it) doesn't have to suggest the relationship is one way for the other. Basically it just seems to be used whenever someone is friends with someone but interested in them romantically while the other person isn't, though personally I think its only really meaningful when part of the reason for the lack of attraction from one of the people is because of the friendship, ("If you don't ask her out soon you'll be stuck in the zone forever", to paraphrase the episode of Friends that helped introduce the term to popular culture).

Probably bigger post than the OP warranted, but I have seen discussion about "friend zones" turn into shitstorms elsewhere so I thought I may as well just get my opinion on that argument in...

[TioJorge]

Every woman I've dated (for more than a year...longest one was 7, I haven't had too many serious relationships, but just for reference...not some wanna-be player here) has started with the friend-zone. People who complain about being friend-zoned are the losers. The worst kind of losers...the sore losers who give up and don't know what it means to have a penis. Friend-zone? GOOD, I'M GLAD, THAT MEANS I'M ONE STEP CLOSER TO YOUR JIGGLYPUFF.

Psh! Feh! Friend-zone...I do my best work in the friend-zone. The tenacity of humans, the resolve of the testicles, these are the Friend-Zoners. Zone of the Enders? Zone of the Friend-Zone-Enders.

[hefdaddy42]

Uh, OK.

[TioJorge]

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD HEFFY, FINE! No casserole for you tonight.

[cramx3]

Every woman I've dated (for more than a year...longest one was 7, I haven't had too many serious relationships, but just for reference...not some wanna-be player here) has started with the friend-zone. People who complain about being friend-zoned are the losers. The worst kind of losers...the sore losers who give up and don't know what it means to have a penis. Friend-zone? GOOD, I'M GLAD, THAT MEANS I'M ONE STEP CLOSER TO YOUR JIGGLYPUFF.

Psh! Feh! Friend-zone...I do my best work in the friend-zone. The tenacity of humans, the resolve of the testicles, these are the Friend-Zoners. Zone of the Enders? Zone of the Friend-Zone-Enders.

Actually, I can agree. Ive gotten into relationships with girls after first being friend-zoned.  Its possible.

[lonestar]

Friend zone just means you now have access to all their friends

[JayOctavarium]

Friend zone just means you now have access to all their friends

But are the friends willing?

[Chino]

Friend zone just means you now have access to all their friends

But are the friends willing?

Depends on whether or not that put you into the friend zone.

[Ħ]

Friend zone just means you now have access to all their friends

Haha, this is awesome! Gonna have to use that one.

[King Postwhore]

Guys always look at girls like we have a shot, girls look for something  in guys so in the end, guys don't hang out with girls they don't want to bang.

[senecadawg2]

In recent years it seems there has been a big backlash against this term by feminists

And for good reason, too.

Obviously I'm not accusing anyone here that's using the term of being misogynistic just on the basis of using this phrase. And I agree that its use can be completely harmless in many contexts.

With that being said, the whole concept of 'friend zoning' has been used way too many times as a way to criticize victims of sexual assault. Oh you left him stranded in the friend zone? Why do you have to be such a tease? Effectively deflecting the blame off of those creeps who can't accept the limitations of a platonic relationship. And while that may be extreme, both personal experience and statistics back it up. I can't remember the exact number, but something close to 2/3 of all rape victims know their violators. I'm not going to make an uneducated guess on the numbers, but I can't help but wonder how many of those rapists felt unfairly 'friend zoned'. And how much does this kind of language perpetuate men's sense of entitlement, if at all? Once again, I'm not going to make any claims. I just think that it's worth bringing up. It's also funny how many people talk about it like the girls who are 'friend zoning' us are doing it just for shits and giggles. Like it's some sort of sadistic punishment, just because they can. And maybe there are chicks who do that. In fact, I'm sure there probably are. But by and large I think most of us who have been friend zoned probably just weren't an interesting enough prospect, and that's fine. On the flip side, while the term can be used to describe guys it almost never is. And even less commonly with the same spiteful connotation.

Just my 2 cents. Apologies for what might be a very disorganized train of thought. I haven't quite figured it out in my head yet. I just think the whole thing can be very problematic if we're not careful.

[Implode]

There are girls that know full well that a guy is in love with them and they'll let him go for months thinking he has a chance. They should woman up and let the guy know right away instead of emptying his wallet for an entire summer.

Either you've been watching too many movies, or you know the worst people possible. I feel like these kind of occurrences are outliers, and as many others in here have said, the friend zone is just a thing guys use to put the blame for not getting a girl off of themselves.

[Orbert]

Wow, some of you guys have a much more negative interpretation of the term than I do.  I don't connect the concept of "blame" to it, associate it with teasing or leading on in any way, and certainly don't see it as any form of justification for sexual assault.

I just thought it was interesting that many, perhaps most, females seem to separate guys into those they would consider potential romantic/sexual partners, and those that would be "just friends".  Those are the two "zones".  And jokingly, cynically, but perhaps with at least some truth, I don't think guys draw the line so clearly because basically any female is a potential romantic/sexual partner, even friends.  Even if she's not your type, or what you'd normally consider good-looking, spend enough time with her, and you never know.

The only negative thing I was thinking was that it can be very frustrating for guys to spend a lot of time with someone, thinking that they're making some kind of progress towards getting her to see him as a potential partner, when in her mind he's "just" a friend.  And I put that in quotes because there's really nothing negative about it, nothing wrong with it, except that the guy might want something more.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Sort of in line with what Orbert has said, I only see the term as becoming a problem when "blame" is attached to it and the guy uses it as some sort of crutch for why they can't get laid find a mate.

The term itself isn't inherently wrong, but is easily made fallible once blame is placed on the girl as if they are romantically obligated to the guy or something. And that's not to say that chicks don't get friend-zoned as well--oh yeah, it happens. To me, the "friend-zone" is broadly defined as a situation in which a person desires no sexual/romantic relationship with somebody else who does. I think it's a fine enough term that shortens up a drawn-out explanation of somebody's dilemma. It's quite a useful term in some instances. Over time, however it's gotten such a negative connotation and has become a "trigger" word of sorts.

The phenomenon does exist, but it's a shame that so many guys play the "friend-zone" card to justify their failed attempts at a relationship and then continue to harp on it as if the woman committed some heinous crime. The interesting thing to me is that while I've known many girls to have fallen into the friend-zone, I've not heard one of them directly use the term to place blame on the guy. It's definitely a male-centric concept, even though it can go both ways.

[Jaffa]

I have no sympathy for guys who complain about being 'friend zoned'.  There's nothing tragic about being 'just friends' with a girl you like. 

[Lynxo]

I'm not saying this applies to you guys but in my experience, men who use the term "I've been friend-zoned" are men who wants to sleep with their hot friend but their friend won't let them.

Look, I can understand the feeling of being in love with someone who doesn't feel the same way as you do. But to say that it's a female thing to friend-zone their guy friends is implying that "the bitch should just let me put my cock in her" and is kinda sexist. (What's wrong with being sexy?)

[puppyonacid]

I think there is a distinction

You have a girl you like, that you want to go further with but she just isn't into you that way. So she "friend zones" you and that is up to her really. It doesn't mean she's a bitch or anything like that. It's just how it is. But there are girls (and probably guys) who enjoy that feeling of a "queue" forming behind them of willing suitors. My ex was (and is) like that. She loved and lapped up the attention of guys - slept with many of them as well. But she'd flirt and lead guys on then express no sexual interest.

I've had platonic relationships with girls - some very attractive that I might have taken things further with had it gone that way. I'm pretty laid back though so was happy to be friends and leave it at that. I'd never express interest first. I still haven't ever asked a girl out and I'm in my 30's. I always wait to get asked. Just seems safer that way. Trouble with that is I'd often be attracted to a girl purely cos she was attracted to me - which is pretty fucked up.

My current gf is that first time I've ever been with a girl that I liked first. It makes a big diff.

Think I went a OT there :-/

[hefdaddy42]

Wow, some of you guys have a much more negative interpretation of the term than I do.  I don't connect the concept of "blame" to it, associate it with teasing or leading on in any way, and certainly don't see it as any form of justification for sexual assault.

I'm completely with Orbert here.  I've never even heard the term used in the way some of you guys are discussing.  I don't associate it with any of that stuff, just describing something that actually exists.

[BlobVanDam]

As usual, I am also in agreement with Orbert.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

So let me make sure I understand - the people who take issue with this terminology see it as some sort of quasi-slut shaming device, wherein if she's not interested, he goes on about the friend zone, like she's a huge cocktease.  Basically, in the same sentence throwing out a blanket stereotype about men, as trollish cockmonsters who whine if they're not allowed to fuck anything that moves.  Got it.

Are we really in need of so much drama in our lives that we have to make every benign piece of terminology into some horrible and unacceptable social faux pas like this?  I see this kinda crap on FB almost daily and I want to just shake some people and say "KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF!  WAKE UP AND REALIZE EVERYTHING SUCKS ONLY IF YOU MAKE IT SUCK!  LIFE IS GOOD, BE HAPPY!"

[Stadler]

I've had platonic relationships with girls - some very attractive that I might have taken things further with had it gone that way.

First, yes, people MIGHT turn nouns into verbs, but it is a practice that can't end quickly enough for me.   People also bang sheep and inhale spray paint fumes.  Doesn't mean you should do it.

Second, your sentence - whether you intended to do this or not - speaks volumes, because SHE likely would NOT "have taken things further had it gone that way".   I do think this is one of those areas where men and women are just different, and that's where the "friend zone" exists.  I have had female friends before, platonically, but I can't honestly say that I never once ever thought of being intimate with them.   I sort of have this issue in my relationship now.  My girlfriend is gorgeous (literally a model) and has a fair number of male friends.  I do not doubt her fidelity at all, but we clash about the intent and mindset of her guy friends.  I'm confident enough that the fact that another guy wants to sleep with her doesn't bother me, but to act as if that doesn't exist does, for some odd reason, perhaps because that is fertile ground for missed signals. 

Third, the notion of "friend zone" as misogynistic is ridiculous.   To put any emphasis on the term or concept of "friend zone" in the context of a hate crime (NOT a sex crime) such as rape is simply not doing one's homework.   If anything, it is complementary, in that it accords a level of nuance and sophistication to the female psyche that simply doesn't exist (or at least not to the same degree) in males. 

[bout to crash]

I think, as some others have said, it can go both ways. It can simply mean "I like her/him but am considered just a friend" but it also ABSOLUTELY IS used in misogynist ways by guys who think they're owed something and are bitter because their feelings aren't returned.

That's bullshit. Girls know exactly what they're doing.

This is an incredibly sexist blanket statement to make. Sure, there are girls (and guys) out there who mess with other people. But you're clearly taking some experience you had (or maybe someone you know) and applying it to every situation. As for the whole "emptying his wallet for a summer" scenario.... you know what I've noticed about situations like that? 9/10 times, you know what the guy doesn't do? Actually make a move or TELL the woman he likes her. But somehow it's all her fault. It's not an easy thing to do, but being a grown-up and putting your feelings out there tends to solve a lot of problems- either she'll say "I'm sorry, I'm not interested" or she'll say "Me too! Let's fuck." I can be quite shy myself, but I don't have much sympathy for people who don't tell a person they like them and then complain that they don't get any or waste time on the person. Personally, I tend to err on the side of "Maybe he doesn't like me" unless I'm given a very clear sign. Hanging out and buying me lunch doesn't count- I do that for friends all the time.