Jem Godfrey's little jab at DT

[rumborak]

In the interest of some good-natured controversy check out Jem's (now a month old) blog post:

https://jemgodfrey.tumblr.com/post/96300262044/august-31st

Fair play to bands like Dream Theater who can throw shapes with total conviction and rawk until the cows come home, but personally speaking I feel uncomfortable peddling teen angst amidst an extended furry of  32nd notes whilst also having a mortgage.

Discuss. Dismiss. Dispel.

[BlobVanDam]

1. Who?
2. What the hell does "throw shapes" mean?
3. As far as internet comments go, I wouldn't even give that a second glance, especially as far as DT is concerned.

So I'll go with dismiss for $200.

[rumborak]

Oh, not everybody might know Jem. He is the main guy behind Frost*.

Regarding the "throw shapes" comment, I took that to mean that DT essentially put on a show of being the tough guys, even though in reality they're family fathers in their late 40s/early 50s with mortgages on their houses to pay off. Jem's point is that he personally couldn't do that.

[hefdaddy42]

I like Jem, but that comment doesn't make much sense to me.

[DreamerTV]

I really love Frost, and Jem is one of the funniest guys ever.
But this was totally unnecessary. Plus, one of the first who has made "fun" of the concert attitude has been JP himself during his last run of clinics.
Also, i thought they were in good terms since they did a couple of gigs togheter and in particular Jem seemed to connect well with Jordan.

[King Postwhore]

Maybe Jem can back peddle on this comment like he has about ending Frost for the last decade.

[hefdaddy42]

Wait, wait, wait.  Let's look at it in context.

For the record, Frost isn’t dead, but I do struggle to see how it’s still relevant. I hear lots of great new music from young bands like Stark and North Atlantic Oscillation and so forth and wince a bit at what we’ve done in the same timeframe. Fair play to bands like Dream Theater who can throw shapes with total conviction and rawk until the cows come home, but personally speaking I feel uncomfortable peddling teen angst amidst an extended furry of  32nd notes whilst also having a mortgage. I’m not sure teen angst and a mortgage can co-exist.

It sounds like he is saying that as he gets older, he doesn't seem as excited about doing some of the music he's been doing, unlike DT, who still find no difficulty in playing their older stuff and continuing in the same format.  It sounds like a comment on himself, not DT.

[King Postwhore]

I'm still confused about the link to prog and angst.  Why do even musicians pigeonhole genres?

Also Jem, make a prog album once ever 4 years and still write the pop songs you can cash in to paying your mortgage.

[SuperTaco]

Fair play to bands like Dream Theater who can throw shapes with total conviction and rawk until the cows come home, but personally speaking I feel uncomfortable peddling teen angst amidst    an extended furry    of  32nd notes whilst also having a mortgage.

Keep the furries away from my DT songs, damnit xD

[Skeever]

Well I think DT are probably much more  financially solvent than Frost*, so that probably helps keep them going.

[rumborak]

Wait, wait, wait.  Let's look at it in context.

For the record, Frost isn’t dead, but I do struggle to see how it’s still relevant. I hear lots of great new music from young bands like Stark and North Atlantic Oscillation and so forth and wince a bit at what we’ve done in the same timeframe. Fair play to bands like Dream Theater who can throw shapes with total conviction and rawk until the cows come home, but personally speaking I feel uncomfortable peddling teen angst amidst an extended furry of  32nd notes whilst also having a mortgage. I’m not sure teen angst and a mortgage can co-exist.

It sounds like he is saying that as he gets older, he doesn't seem as excited about doing some of the music he's been doing, unlike DT, who still find no difficulty in playing their older stuff and continuing in the same format.  It sounds like a comment on himself, not DT.

Oh, it's definitely a comment on his own personal state of mind. But he also clearly uses DT as a "that's not what I want to be doing in my fifties" example, I.e. clearly not as a positive example.

It's not even that big a jab; I just figured it could serve as a starting point to the bigger discussion of "at what point does a metal band become unbelievable?" I don't think DT is there yet, but at the same time I remember vividly the opening of LALP, seeing JP and thinking "holy receding hairline, Batman!"

[Plasmastrike]

Wait, wait, wait.  Let's look at it in context.

For the record, Frost isn’t dead, but I do struggle to see how it’s still relevant. I hear lots of great new music from young bands like Stark and North Atlantic Oscillation and so forth and wince a bit at what we’ve done in the same timeframe. Fair play to bands like Dream Theater who can throw shapes with total conviction and rawk until the cows come home, but personally speaking I feel uncomfortable peddling teen angst amidst an extended furry of  32nd notes whilst also having a mortgage. I’m not sure teen angst and a mortgage can co-exist.

It sounds like he is saying that as he gets older, he doesn't seem as excited about doing some of the music he's been doing, unlike DT, who still find no difficulty in playing their older stuff and continuing in the same format.  It sounds like a comment on himself, not DT.

.

What OP left out totally changed the meaning lol

[sneakyblueberry]

2. What the hell does "throw shapes" mean?

The only other time I've heard that expression is in an interview with Steve Harris where he talks about blokes bringing cardboard guitars to their early shows and 'throwing shapes'.  So I took it to mean displaying skill on an instrument (i.e making shapes with your hand on the neck of a guitar). 

[theseoafs]

"at what point does a metal band become unbelievable?"

Somewhere between DT and Adrenaline Mob.

Anyway, Jem's comment is confusing.  In what way has DT ever "peddled teen angst"?

[SuperTaco]

Anyway, Jem's comment is confusing.  In what way has DT ever "peddled teen angst"?

I wonder about this as well. DT has never come across as angsty to me. I think there's a big difference between darker lyrical themes and angst.

[KevShmev]

Using teen angst in any context referring to Dream Theater makes absolutely no sense. 

[hefdaddy42]

Wait, wait, wait.  Let's look at it in context.

For the record, Frost isn’t dead, but I do struggle to see how it’s still relevant. I hear lots of great new music from young bands like Stark and North Atlantic Oscillation and so forth and wince a bit at what we’ve done in the same timeframe. Fair play to bands like Dream Theater who can throw shapes with total conviction and rawk until the cows come home, but personally speaking I feel uncomfortable peddling teen angst amidst an extended furry of  32nd notes whilst also having a mortgage. I’m not sure teen angst and a mortgage can co-exist.

It sounds like he is saying that as he gets older, he doesn't seem as excited about doing some of the music he's been doing, unlike DT, who still find no difficulty in playing their older stuff and continuing in the same format.  It sounds like a comment on himself, not DT.

Oh, it's definitely a comment on his own personal state of mind. But he also clearly uses DT as a "that's not what I want to be doing in my fifties" example, I.e. clearly not as a positive example.

I don't think that is what he is saying.  I see no non-positive slant at all.  He is saying "Congrats to bands who can do this, but I can't."

[theseoafs]

I don't think that is what he is saying.  I see no non-positive slant at all.  He is saying "Congrats to bands who can do this, but I can't."

The "congrats" is obviously ironic.  The thing he's congratulating DT for is "peddling teen angst amidst an extended 'furry' of 32nd notes whilst also having a mortgage".  I don't see any way you could interpret that positively.

[Mosh]

I don't understand why this needs to be a thread. I love Frost* but his comment makes no sense. Seems like the sort of thing I'd read on youtube. Totally inconsequential, more appropriate for the Frost thread.

[rumborak]

I don't think that is what he is saying.  I see no non-positive slant at all.  He is saying "Congrats to bands who can do this, but I can't."

The "congrats" is obviously ironic.  The thing he's congratulating DT for is "peddling teen angst amidst an extended 'furry' of 32nd notes whilst also having a mortgage".  I don't see any way you could interpret that positively.

That's how took that to mean it too. I'm surprised Hef interprets that differently.

[Lucien]

Fair play to bands like Dream Theater who can throw shapes with total conviction and rawk until the cows come home, but personally speaking I feel uncomfortable peddling teen angst amidst    an extended furry    of  32nd notes whilst also having a mortgage.

Keep the furries away from my DT songs, damnit xD

I think he meant "flurry" or "fury", but either way, 

[TheAtliator]

Why is this even talked about here? This is an insult to insults. If you're on this forum, you know that statement does not have the slightest descriptive resemblance of Dream Theater.

[wolfking]

I like Jem, but that comment doesn't make much sense to me.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think that is what he is saying.  I see no non-positive slant at all.  He is saying "Congrats to bands who can do this, but I can't."

The "congrats" is obviously ironic.  The thing he's congratulating DT for is "peddling teen angst amidst an extended 'furry' of 32nd notes whilst also having a mortgage".  I don't see any way you could interpret that positively.

That's how took that to mean it too. I'm surprised Hef interprets that differently.

Mostly because the description doesn't fit DT specifically.  No teen angst there at all.  He is generalizing about bands still able to play a certain kind of music, and used DT as an example.

Brits correct me if I'm wrong, but the phrase "Fair play" in this instance, isn't giving credit to these bands?

After all, the whole thing comes as an expansion of him not seeing how Frost is still relevant.  The whole comment is about him and his feeling on Frost not being relevant.

[rumborak]

I mean, I totally agree with you that the "teenage angst" comment about DT is totally off-base.
I thought/hoped this thread could evolve into a broader discussion about where the line of a band lies after which their music or image is no longer relevant or becomes a mockery of themselves. As an example I would cite Metallica, at last in my personal opinion.

[King Postwhore]

I agree about that "Metal" look but you know guys in their 40's.  Black socks are back in now.  I used to make fun of my dad for wearing black socks with sneakers.

It's harder to keep an image when your in your 40's going into your 50's.  Are this age, just wearing jeans and a t-shirt seem normal.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I think that DT are at less risk of looking ridiculous than Metallica because whereas Metallica was at one point a band of badasses, DT never had that distinction. I do think that the time is coming soon where they're all going to have to cut their hair or something, because once you're 50 long hair doesn't look so good from more than an angle or two.

[SuperTaco]

I think he meant "flurry" or "fury", but either way, 

:3

As an example I would cite Metallica, at last in my personal opinion.

Very agreed. The way those guys go about their business these days seems so complacent, that it bugs me. I haven't felt any passion from their music in a long time. They can physically still perform, but mentally it seems that the drive isn't there.

As for DT, I think it's going to go the other way. I think they'll always have the motivation to make music, but when you play such a demanding and technical style, isn't there a point where the body starts saying no? That is when DT will slow down IMO. I hope it isn't for a long time yet. We need a few more Mangini-era albums first :3

I think that DT are at less risk of looking ridiculous than Metallica because whereas Metallica was at one point a band of badasses, DT never had that distinction. I do think that the time is coming soon where they're all going to have to cut their hair or something, because once you're 50 long hair doesn't look so good from more than an angle or two.

Yeah I'll say... Especially JP. He wants to hold on to that long hair but someday he'll have to accept that it's thinning out

[rumborak]

I was rather surprised that MM, who went in with a perfectly fine hairdo, "converted" into the metal image. In fact, I was kinda hoping MM's more normal look would give the other guys the impetus to scale it back too.

[Skeever]

I think DT were closer to crossing the line around Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds, when they were wearing goth pants and blastbeating and it looked like they were trying much harder to fit alongside popular new metal bands like Trivium and Atreyu.

Over the last few years, they've slowly gone back to being more like they were before. Their new album sounds more like 80s prog rock / metal, so it's no surprise at all to hear it and then to see it's being performed by guys nearing 50.

[bl5150]

Yeah I'll say... Especially JP. He wants to hold on to that long hair but someday he'll have to accept that it's thinning out

If he keeps compensating by adding to the beard then the Leland Sklar look beckons.

[ariich]

Brits correct me if I'm wrong, but the phrase "Fair play" in this instance, isn't giving credit to these bands?

Correct.

"Throw shapes" is also a British colloqualism, and basically just means dancing.

[?]

I think that DT are at less risk of looking ridiculous than Metallica because whereas Metallica was at one point a band of badasses, DT never had that distinction. I do think that the time is coming soon where they're all going to have to cut their hair or something, because once you're 50 long hair doesn't look so good from more than an angle or two.

This, basically.

[Cruithne]

2. What the hell does "throw shapes" mean?

Shapes being thrown:




That's all - doing more than just hunching over your guitar and concentrating on the notes you're playing. It was a pretty common term in the British metal press when I was growing up and Jem's not that much older than me.

[Stadler]

Brits correct me if I'm wrong, but the phrase "Fair play" in this instance, isn't giving credit to these bands?

Correct.

"Throw shapes" is also a British colloqualism, and basically just means dancing.

In this context, it isn't "dancing" technically, but more the "theater" of playing your instrument, as evidenced in the photos posted by Cruithne.