ADTOE vs DT12

[Enigmachine]

Can't for the life of me figure out why people like DT12 so much.  It's been pasteurized, homogenized, and recycled within an inch of its life.  But whatever...

That's a bit harsh isn't it? it's not like the whole album consists of a medley of previous DT moments and if anything, ADToE is probably more recycled given the structural comparisons to IaW (LNF being especially guilty of self-plagiarism). Also, people have given reasons for liking DT12, mainly: the more concise songwriting, great melodies and Mike Mangini having a larger presence (although I don't know how well I represent the part of DT's fanbase that is pleased with DT12). If you "Can't figure out why people like DT12 so much", you may need to pay more attention.

[DreamerTV]

ADTOE has the best song, which is "Bridges in the Sky," in my opinion.  But DT12 is a start-to-finish musical and lyrical masterpiece, ranking just a notch behind I&W and Awake, in my opinion.  So my choice is DT12.

I had NO IDEA you liked it that much! It's good to see there's someone else other than me and TheStraySeed holding the album in such a high regard!

Count me in as well.
But they're both great albums and ADTOE was a very well welcomed and much needed comeback..

[02T]

DT12 is probably my favorite album since Awake. I thought it was damn near flawless. Melodies were stronger than they've been in a while. I really liked ADToE, mainly because it was such a return to form. But I absolutely loved DT12.

[wolven74]

Both are great improvements over their predecessors. ADTOE sounded a little flat to me, production wise. Yes it was clear, but as I listen to it next to DT12 it seems tinny and safe. DT12, while being shorter in length has more high points for me. It's just more fun to listen to.

[RoeDent]

Are you sure? What about:

FAS's wah riff,
TEI's Solo,
TPB's "I can see the painting come alive" combined with a guitar (or keyboard, I can't tell) slide coming in on the word "alive", its solo, the "what if, caught in a moment..." bridge,
BTV's beginning ambiance, its solo, its half time outro,
StR's intro, "I believe, the sacrifices in life, give more than they take." and the "ah"s afterwards, lead after 1st verse, choir patch part, 2nd verse, last chorus and outro,
AftR's intro, second verse, bridge,
IT's crazy part from 2:56 to 3:22, "hate div-i-ding us, love rem-in-ding us, of our shared humanity, 6:00 to 6:53, orchestra, "cowards for salVATION!", piano + sticks part, return of main riff, 15:08 to 15:17 slowing down for the outro? (sorry about the poor formatting, I wasn't sure how to put it otherwise without it looking like I just spammed the page to fill it up)

For me, it's the great "slow" moments that give me goosebumps. While I am impressed by virtuosity (both instrumentally and vocally) and whatnot, it's the moments when a simple tune and epic chord progression ring out that leave me mindblown. Like, for example, the ending of Octavarium.

I will confess that I did forget two other moments, the strings in The Embracing Circle, and the hidden track. And when I say "the ending of Illumination Theory", I mean the whole Surrender, Trust and Passion part.

[RaiseTheKnife]

ADTOE easily and it's not even in my top 5.  Can't for the life of me figure out why people like DT12 so much.  It's been pasteurized, homogenized, and recycled within an inch of its life.  But whatever...

With respect to the guitar tone and drum sound, I agree with this assessment.  As I said before, chocolate cake (JP's rich and overwhelming tone) can be a nice dessert, but I'd get a stomach-ache if I had it for 9 straight courses. 

I'm just not a fan of the contemporary metal sound (Periphery, etc.) in general.  I'm getting long in the tooth I guess.

[As I Am]

I like 'em both, but don't "love" either. But I do like them both better than the last 2 albums before the split.

[aprilethereal]

ADTOE is great, DT12 is pretty amazing.

[Zook]

DT12 by a million light years. Bridges in the Sky is an amazing song, but unfortunately it's surrounded by mediocrity.

I've said this several times before, and deny it all you want, but the similarities between the songs from ADTOE and IAW are just too striking.

On The Backs Of Angels is Pull Me Under, like, exactly. No Thanks.
Build Me Up, Break Me Down is boring.
Lost Not Forgotten is Under A Glass Moon. I'd rather listen to UAGM.
You could say This Is The Life is Another Day, but I'll give that one a pass. Otherwise, this song is good.
Bridges in the Sky is amazing.
Outcry is sort of Metropolis, but I take the points off for just being boring.
Far From Heaven... Another bore.
Breaking All Illusions is Learning To Live and they even put a slightly modified version of the opening melody from it. BUT, I still really like it, unlike the other clones.
Beneath The Surface... Nothing interesting.

False Awakening Suite - I love Symphonic Metal and this is a great intro ala Symphony X
The Enemy Inside - Great metal tune. Nothing wrong with this one.
The Looking Glass - Nothing wrong with this either... The end could be better I guess.
Enigma Machine - Not their best instrumental, but still a fun tune.
The Bigger Picture - Great song. Great chorus. Amazing ending.
Behind The Veil - Not a bad song, just my least favorite.
Surrender to Reason - That choir part is bad ass. Good song.
Along For The Ride - didn't like it at first, but it's a nice ballad, and not boring.
Illumination Theory - bad ass epic is bad ass. No complaints.
The Easter egg is overrated. Not much going on. It's like the Ministry of Lost Souls outro solo. Why do people like it so much?

So yeah, DT12 by a million light years.

[Madman Shepherd]

ADTOE could very well be my favorite DT album sooooo...ADTOE

[CharlesPL]

DT12

[RaiseTheKnife]

ADTOE's similarities with I&W are indeed undeniably present (IMO) and this amplifies my fascination with that album.  What a cool and prog concept.   

[ariich]

ADTOE, definitely.

[Riitasointi]

ADTOE by a HUGE margin. It may be my favorite DT album and DT12 is just kind of mediocre and lacks amazing moments so yeah...

[theaterdream]

This was a tough choice for me. I choose ADTOE. DT is great but I really like ADTOE more. It seems more melodic and a much softer side of Dream Theater. This is the side I prefer.  The album seems brighter or more uplifting at times. I love when they write more uplifting tracks. So many of their albums are full of depressing dark subjects. ADTOE seems a little brighter.

I remember the first time I heard Another Day and Learning To Live...songs about hope. At least thats what I got from them. ADTOE  feels like that to me.

Plus, the sound on the album is better on ADTOE.

[Dark Castle]

DT12.

Love both, but DT12 hits higher points imo

[Mladen]

A Dramatic Turn of Events is a brilliant album and I already think of it as a classic.

DT 12 is just... good.

[RoeDent]

I hate the "ADTOE is the same as I&W" criticism. It's stupid. So what if the songs have similar structures to I&W songs! They're still awesome songs, some of DT's best ever!

[Enigmachine]

For me, it's the great "slow" moments that give me goosebumps. While I am impressed by virtuosity (both instrumentally and vocally) and whatnot, it's the moments when a simple tune and epic chord progression ring out that leave me mindblown. Like, for example, the ending of Octavarium.

Fair enough, but none of those moments that I chose were based off of virtuosic playing, otherwise I would've picked the insane sweeping part in EM. They were more based on how they were unexpected moments that raise the song to another level and fit into the song perfectly. For example that "15:08 to 15:17 slowing down for the outro" in IT gives me goosbumps because after the big instrumental section, the song then quickly yet gradually slowing down to a crawl gives a strong sense of scale, like you're staring at the Earth from space like in the album art, and the contrast with the instrumental section only enhances that feel.

I didn't just choose those moments because I thought "JP is really shredding away here!" or "JR is MINDBLOWINGLY fast here!", as I like that DT are very capable on their instruments, but I LOVE how they use the talent to create some brilliant music!

I apologise if I've got the wrong message from your post.

[Mosh]

I hate the "ADTOE is the same as I&W" criticism. It's stupid. So what if the songs have similar structures to I&W songs! They're still awesome songs, some of DT's best ever!

I dunno if it's a criticism as much as an observation. Personally I wish the band would've said that it's true. For a band as proggy as DT, with all the varying structures and such (especially in the early years), I think the idea of writing new songs using older structures is brilliant.

Kinda like how there was that contest to write a song in SOC's structure before it had even come out yet. That was a really cool idea.

[RaiseTheKnife]

^^^ Exactly! ^^^

[Zook]

So now ripping yourself off is prog? Well shit, I guess Godsmack and Disturbed are prog bands now.

[Rodni Demental]

ADTOE's similarities with I&W are indeed undeniably present (IMO) and this amplifies my fascination with that album.  What a cool and prog concept.

Exactly. It's actually a quality that has made me more interested in the album, trying to interpret the similarities from a familiar yet differing passage was quite fascinating and only added to the appeal of listening to this album for me. Besides, in all of the comparisons, there's still nothing that's identical, just some familiarity, so I don't see how it'd be off putting.

[BlobVanDam]

So now ripping yourself off is prog? Well shit, I guess Godsmack and Disturbed are prog bands now.

Yeah, I think that's a pretty lame justification.
That said, I don't believe there are many real similarities between ADTOE and IaW at all, so I don't think it needs to be defended.

[Mosh]

So now ripping yourself off is prog? Well shit, I guess Godsmack and Disturbed are prog bands now.

There's a huge difference between ripping yourself off and reusing an old structure. Bands write in the same structure all the time. Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Iced Earth, etc. Do these bands rip themselves off? Some of their material might get samey sometimes, but they don't rip themselves off. So what's the problem when a prog band does it? It's more interesting IMO because prog structures are so out there and unique that it's interesting to hear the different possibilities that can come from the same song structure.

[Zook]

So now ripping yourself off is prog? Well shit, I guess Godsmack and Disturbed are prog bands now.

Yeah, I think that's a pretty lame justification.
That said, I don't believe there are many real similarities between ADTOE and IaW at all, so I don't think it needs to be defended.

You don't hear Under a Glass Moon in Lost Not Forgotten? It's practically a carbon copy.

[BlobVanDam]

So now ripping yourself off is prog? Well shit, I guess Godsmack and Disturbed are prog bands now.

Yeah, I think that's a pretty lame justification.
That said, I don't believe there are many real similarities between ADTOE and IaW at all, so I don't think it needs to be defended.

You don't hear Under a Glass Moon in Lost Not Forgotten? It's practically a carbon copy.

That one I definitely hear, and heard right away. That's about the only part of the comparison I agree with. I think the other comparisons are quite weak.

[Zook]

Nah, although there are some changes, OTBOA is almost carbon as well. Same can be said for Breaking All Illusions, that one of which has the most changes, which is why I actually like it.

[TheGreatPretender]

ADTOE has the best song, which is "Bridges in the Sky," in my opinion.  But DT12 is a start-to-finish musical and lyrical masterpiece, ranking just a notch behind I&W and Awake, in my opinion.  So my choice is DT12.

I had NO IDEA you liked it that much! It's good to see there's someone else other than me and TheStraySeed holding the album in such a high regard!

Yeah, hi! We do exist!

[ariich]

Nah, although there are some changes, OTBOA is almost carbon as well.

Except that it SOUNDS absolutely nothing like PMU.

[RoeDent]

Nah, although there are some changes, OTBOA is almost carbon as well.

Except that it SOUNDS absolutely nothing like PMU.

Exactly. Different riff, different tempo, different set of lyrics, different title. Different song.

[Zook]

Nah, although there are some changes, OTBOA is almost carbon as well.

Except that it SOUNDS absolutely nothing like PMU.

Exactly. Different riff, different tempo, different set of lyrics, different title. Different song.

Oh yeah, I can't forget Linkin Park. They're prog too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb83s6C2MjY

Those 2 songs don't SOUND the same either.

[Outcrier]

Nah, although there are some changes, OTBOA is almost carbon as well.

Except that it SOUNDS absolutely nothing like PMU.

Exactly. Different riff, different tempo, different set of lyrics, different title. Different song.

I believe Zook is talking about the song structure.

[Dellers]

Easily ADTOE. I like that album a lot, while DT12 is meh almost all the way through.

[son_ov_hades]

Both are really great albums and its a tough choice. But in the end A Dramatic Turn Of events has Build Me Up, Break Me Down which is one of the worst songs Dream Theater has ever done. Dream Theater has nothing but great songs, so it wins.