ADTOE vs DT12

[hefdaddy42]

Where's the pic of VG burning his "Divine Wings and Shit" CD when you need it

Holy shit, I remember that!

[Zook]

............. no u?

[bosk1]

My two cents:  I have no idea whether any of the current members of DT listen to or are actively familiar with Symphony X's music.  However, given that they did tour with SX as mentioned above, and given JP's uncanny musical memory, I can easily envision a scenario where he said something like, "Hey, remember that piece Symphony X used to open with when we were touring with them?  That was pretty cool.  Let's try something with that vibe and see how it sounds."

[chaotic_ripper]

Yeah, I'M with Hef. If you go look at any of those "favorite albums of whatever year" lists that Roadrunner puts out, they don't really name anything that resembles symphonic/power metal.  Other than one time where I saw JLB mention Circus Maximus, it seems like the guys in DT don't really listen to anything that resembles,  well...DT.

[The Stray Seed]

DT12, by miiiiiles =D

[Implode]

It's not news that these two albums are seemingly the most polarizing we've seen. Why do you think that is? What about these two albums is actually that different?

[The Letter M]

It's not news that these two albums are seemingly the most polarizing we've seen. Why do you think that is? What about these two albums is actually that different?

Inb4 Lack-of-Portnoy.

Seriously, though, I think it's because of how fans have treated them. ADTOE was such a big deal because it was their first album without Portnoy, so fans felt it was either going to be REALLY good, or REALLY underwhelming, and when the accusations and evidence of re-used charts from IAW came about, it tainted fan's opinions, both the fans who liked it, and those that didn't before said theory came to light.

As for DT12, it was the follow-up, and after a pretty successful album like ADTOE, all eyes were on the band to see if they could produce a decent follow-up. Their first album with Mangini in the studio as they wrote the album, so everyone knew his input would change things a bit. Whether or not those changes are obvious or apparent to fans it subjective, but fans will hear differences from ADTOE to DT12 no matter what. The album is shorter than usual, has shorter songs, and does some "new" things that the band's not done before.

Then again, it seems like every time there's a new DT album, it becomes a bit polarizing. I recall the same thing happening to SC and BC&SL when they came out, but we only feel better about those albums now because it's been so long since they've been released. Fans who disliked those albums have warmed up to them, and if they didn't, they're not as vocal about their distaste as they once were during release. Either way, you could almost say EVERY DT album is a bit polarizing, but there are a few that have more likes than dislikes, which is how fans come to (mostly) agree on which ones are the best.

-Marc.

[hefdaddy42]

Then again, it seems like every time there's a new DT album, it becomes a bit polarizing.

This.  I've been a member at the forums since the TOT era, and lurked going back to the SFAM era. 

There is nothing new under the sun.  No matter what comes out, it will be "polarizing."

[Implode]

Good to know. Thanks for the insight!

[bosk1]

As always, I completely agree with Hef.

[hefdaddy42]

As always, I completely agree with Hef.

Trust bosk1 in all things.

[bosk1]

It's like there is one brain out somewhere in space controlling both of us.

[hefdaddy42]

It's like there is one brain out somewhere in space controlling both of us.

Yeah, it's like there is one brain out somewhere in space controlling both of us.

[Another_Won]

It's like there is one brain out somewhere in space controlling both of us.

Yeah, it's like there is one brain out somewhere in space controlling both of us.

Geez guys, just get a room.

  please don't ban me

[Scorpion]

please don't ban me

I never got the point of writing this, to be honest. I mean, if it's okay, then you'll not get banned, and if it's over the line, you'll be banned anyway, regardless of whether you asked to not be banned or not. What's the point?

/derail

[bosk1]

please don't ban me

I never got the point of writing this, to be honest. I mean, if it's okay, then you'll not get banned, and if it's over the line, you'll be banned anyway, regardless of whether you asked to not be banned or not. What's the point?

/derail

Banned! 

[TAC]

please don't ban me

I never got the point of writing this, to be honest. I mean, if it's okay, then you'll not get banned, and if it's over the line, you'll be banned anyway, regardless of whether you asked to not be banned or not. What's the point?

/derail

Banned! 

Apparently, while Bosk was posting this, it was Hef that was banning Another Won! Weird..

[bosk1]

Relevant:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz70prmVDsA

[TAC]

Relevant:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz70prmVDsA

Aww,that's nice!

[Mosh]

My two cents:  I have no idea whether any of the current members of DT listen to or are actively familiar with Symphony X's music.  However, given that they did tour with SX as mentioned above, and given JP's uncanny musical memory, I can easily envision a scenario where he said something like, "Hey, remember that piece Symphony X used to open with when we were touring with them?  That was pretty cool.  Let's try something with that vibe and see how it sounds."

Exactly. Doesn't even have to be that much. I can imagine they also heard it so many times that the influence creeped in unintentionally.

[changing_seasons]

Two of their worst albums for me. ADTOE wins it, if only because of the brilliance of Breaking All Illusions.

[red barchetta]

I have listened to both albums a hundred times.  There is no doubt that ADTOE is a much better album than DT12.  Metal music with a lot of harmonies just as it used to be a trade mark for DT.  The only weak song to me is BMU, BMD.  An easy boring song.  Really I have tried so much to really like DT12 but the lack of creativity is obvious, some songs are based only on a riff.  They will have to come up with a much better album.  Or I will start to think that Portnoy input was very important and is not going to be replaced anyhow by Mangini.

[Zook]

DT break the mold and write a straightforward album and are chastised for it.


"fans" 

[mike099]

For me DT12 is a cd that I can listen to straight thru, where as ADTOE I pick and choose, but contains two of my favorite DT songs, BAI and Outcry.

[haceeb]

Both are best but my vote goes to DT12.

[adamack]

ADToE, by far.

As someone else mentioned, DT12 has not aged particularly well to me.

My theory is that, because they opted for shorter, more concise songs on DT12, it is far more likely for them to lack as much replay value as their longer, more intricate songs.

This isn't a knock against the shorter songs, as I do really enjoy them for what they are. BTV and STR are still amazing songs that I continue to listen to.

ADToE is an album which I can listen to from start to finish, and enjoy almost every moment of.

I cannot say the same for DT12. I very rarely listen to FAS, EM, or TLG. These songs are just underwhelming to me, especially for DT.

Rather than knock DT12 though, I will just say that ADToE is one of my personal favorite albums of all time, by any band, so DT12 has huge shoes to fill for this poll.

The great thing about ADToE is that I honestly did NOT expect it to be very good. The band was in a weird place after losing Portnoy, with Petrucci programming the original drums synthetically and such. I did not have much hope for the album at all. But it blew me away.

BAL, BITS and LNF are perfect examples of why I love DT. Amazing metal riffs, epic moments, beautiful keys/synth layers, incredible vocal melodies, and lots of different parts which give the songs a ton of replay value.

DT12 has some amazing moments as well, but one big disappointment for me has been Illumination Theory. I can say, since it's been a year now, that IT has sadly become my least favorite DT epic. Still a cool song, but pales greatly to Octavarium, Six Degrees, Seasons, etc.

[Kwyjibo]

Both are great but I'm going with DT12, maybe just because it's still kinda new to me. ADTOE is still nice but hasn't aged that well for me and in hindsight the album as a whole doesn't flow that well opposed to DT12.

[LTE3]

For me hands down ADToE, I don't have much love for DT12. I like 3.5 three songs on DT12  TEI, StR, IT and  (solo sect of behind the veil)  but love 4 songs on ADToE  OTBoA, LnF, Outcry, BAI

[kirksnosehair]

I really liked DT12 initially, and I still enjoy a few of the tracks, but to me ADTOE was a much fresher, more innovative, and much more intricate. 


Where DT12 fails for me is in the relative lack of complexity.  I don't really listen to Dream Theater for sing-a-long choruses.  I listen to them because they're incredibly talented and their virtuosity on their instruments is something I am awestruck by.  So it should come as no surprise that a less complex, catchier album like DT12 kind of falls flat for me after a while.  I never reach for it.  But I still listen to ADTOE quite a bit.

[TAC]

I really liked DT12 initially, and I still enjoy a few of the tracks, but to me ADTOE was a much fresher, more innovative, and much more intricate. 


Where DT12 fails for me is in the relative lack of complexity.  I don't really listen to Dream Theater for sing-a-long choruses.  I listen to them because they're incredibly talented and their virtuosity on their instruments is something I am awestruck by.  So it should come as no surprise that a less complex, catchier album like DT12 kind of falls flat for me after a while.  I never reach for it.  But I still listen to ADTOE quite a bit.

Other than the "never reach for it" comment, I agree.

To me, if I had no idea which album was released first, I would assume the "safer" DT12 was the first album out of the gate with MM. I find ADTOE has far more persoanality and is more musically reaching.

[adamack]

To me, if I had no idea which album was released first, I would assume the "safer" DT12 was the first album out of the gate with MM. I find ADTOE has far more persoanality and is more musically reaching.

That's a really good point.

DT12 does indeed sound a lot safer to me, with less personality.

It's odd how it all worked out. The band's goal for DT12 was to create their masterpiece...an album which garnered 100% of their focus and represented the band better than anything else (hence opting for the self-titled route).

Instead, we got something that was safe, and doesn't do a great job of representing what DT is about. The songs are mostly short (for DT), the arrangements are standard, and it has some bland moments.

I still think the album is amazing, but when compared with ADToE, you're right - it lacks personality and adventure.

[hefdaddy42]

It's odd how it all worked out. The band's goal for DT12 was to create their masterpiece...an album which garnered 100% of their focus and represented the band better than anything else (hence opting for the self-titled route).

Instead, we got something that was safe, and doesn't do a great job of representing what DT is about. The songs are mostly short (for DT), the arrangements are standard, and it has some bland moments.

I think you are quite mistaken as to what their goal and intention was for this album.

[TAC]

It's odd how it all worked out. The band's goal for DT12 was to create their masterpiece...an album which garnered 100% of their focus and represented the band better than anything else (hence opting for the self-titled route).

Instead, we got something that was safe, and doesn't do a great job of representing what DT is about. The songs are mostly short (for DT), the arrangements are standard, and it has some bland moments.

I think you are quite mistaken as to what their goal and intention was for this album.

I don't know Hef. I think if you listened to how they all have described the album and their intensions I personally feel that this album did not live up. It's a decent album to be sure. I thought coming off of ADTOE, I expected DT12 to build upon that. I feel it took a step back. At least adventurewise.

[hefdaddy42]

It's odd how it all worked out. The band's goal for DT12 was to create their masterpiece...an album which garnered 100% of their focus and represented the band better than anything else (hence opting for the self-titled route).

Instead, we got something that was safe, and doesn't do a great job of representing what DT is about. The songs are mostly short (for DT), the arrangements are standard, and it has some bland moments.

I think you are quite mistaken as to what their goal and intention was for this album.

I don't know Hef. I think if you listened to how they all have described the album and their intensions I personally feel that this album did not live up. It's a decent album to be sure. I thought coming off of ADTOE, I expected DT12 to build upon that. I feel it took a step back. At least adventurewise.

For one thing, bands always talk up their new releases.  You can only take what they say (in promotion of a product, mind you) with a grain of salt.

Secondly, they never claimed this to be a "masterpiece" or "represent the band" as far as the history of the band.  Rather, it was to represent what these 5 guys are RIGHT NOW.

Also, I don't think they played it safe at all.  Nothing safe about a band who has made it's reputation doing extended length instrumental-laden prog rock compositions doing an album of more focused songwriting.  Whether you liked it or not is up to you, but it certainly wasn't safe, nor intended to be a masterpiece.

[TAC]

For one thing, bands always talk up their new releases.  You can only take what they say (in promotion of a product, mind you) with a grain of salt.

Secondly, they never claimed this to be a "masterpiece" or "represent the band" as far as the history of the band.  Rather, it was to represent what these 5 guys are RIGHT NOW.

Also, I don't think they played it safe at all.  Nothing safe about a band who has made it's reputation doing extended length instrumental-laden prog rock compositions doing an album of more focused songwriting.  Whether you liked it or not is up to you, but it certainly wasn't safe, nor intended to be a masterpiece.

Yes, all you say there is true. I personally wasn't using the term masterpiece. Reading between the lines of the regular new album hype, to me, they were definitely looking to make a statement with this record.