Author Topic: A mega collection of bootlegs  (Read 8389 times)

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Offline Tony From Long Island

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2016, 12:55:02 PM »
Windows Media Player apparently does not play OGG files.      Do they play on Ipods?


Currently listening to a file called "Different Strings Medley"
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2016, 08:12:21 PM »
I don't bother with MP3s or any other lossy formats. To put it bluntly, they're shite.  ;)

Offline Tony From Long Island

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2016, 09:14:08 AM »
<blockquote>  I don't bother with MP3s or any other lossy formats. To put it bluntly, they're shite.</blockquote>


I guess the name ProgSnob fits then    :-)     [Note:   this is just a play on his name, not a personal attack!!!]


When bandwidth and storage space are not an issue, I guess you can have that opinion.   For me right now, both of those are an issue.

Plus, for all of my recordings made prior to 1964, I just don't need FLAC.   You can't polish a turd.
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Offline Robo4900

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2016, 12:46:47 PM »
Plus, for all of my recordings made prior to 1964, I just don't need FLAC.   You can't polish a turd.
But you can encase it in glass to stop it from getting partially eaten by a rat.
The idea behind using FLAC even for old recordings is that you don't lose any more audio data than is already muffled out by age. Some subtleties, like little flairs on the basslines can be just about heard in a lossless file, even if it is barely audible, but an MP3 would completely cut it out.

Windows Media Player apparently does not play OGG files.      Do they play on Ipods?
For Windows, switch to Winamp. As for iPods, I'm sure it can. Or at least, if it can't, iTunes should convert it to a format it can.
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Offline Tony From Long Island

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2016, 12:13:43 PM »
Robo4900  " . . . . . .The idea behind using FLAC even for old recordings is that you don't lose any more audio data than is already muffled out by age . . . . "

I'm not sure what you mean.  I could take a CD of - for example - Tears on my pillow by Little Anthony and the Imperials from 1958.    The recording quality, even in its most pristine condition is crap.   It doesn't contain very low or very high frequencies - at least from what my somewhat trained ears can hear.   Why would I need to store that in FLAC?   Why would I even need to store it at 320kbsd?  That would cut off frequencies that probably were not even on the original recording.   

That's just my opinion anyway.
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Offline pcs90

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #75 on: December 24, 2016, 03:21:06 PM »
As far as the lossless/lossy music file thing goes, for my personal listening everything is in MP3. At higher bit-rates it sounds fine to me. IMO to really apreciate the differences in lossless and lossy files you need very high quality gear because honestly I'd be shocked if most low to mid-level headphones and speakers are really going to emphasize the differences.
Now for bootlegs, if I upload something anywhere it's always in FLAC. Most sites will not even allow you  to upload MP3 files. Dime for example will not allow this unless a mod overrides it, if there really is no lossless source out there...but this is rare and usually only if the concert was recorded from an online stream.
As stated above, MP3 files do add a tiny gap of silence at the start and end of each file. When I have music where tracks are connected together, this silence is annoying because on the CD there's not supposed to be a gap there. So in those cases I just edit the files, delete the silence and merge them. For general listening, this works fine.

Offline Tony From Long Island

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #76 on: December 27, 2016, 06:55:43 AM »
Robo:   " . . . . . .The idea behind using FLAC even for old recordings is that you don't lose any more audio data than is already muffled out by age . . . . "
 
Also, how does a CD of an old recording "age?"    Just trying to follow your line of thinking
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Offline Robo4900

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #77 on: December 28, 2016, 09:39:09 AM »
Robo:   " . . . . . .The idea behind using FLAC even for old recordings is that you don't lose any more audio data than is already muffled out by age . . . . "
 
Also, how does a CD of an old recording "age?"    Just trying to follow your line of thinking
CDs of old recordings are copies made of old master tapes, or if necessary, surviving vinyl records. The tapes can be damaged, the vinyls usually sound pretty rough, and so, while you won't lose anything when transferring it to CD, it's still pretty mangled by the time it gets to CD.

Robo4900  " . . . . . .The idea behind using FLAC even for old recordings is that you don't lose any more audio data than is already muffled out by age . . . . "

I'm not sure what you mean.  I could take a CD of - for example - Tears on my pillow by Little Anthony and the Imperials from 1958.    The recording quality, even in its most pristine condition is crap.   It doesn't contain very low or very high frequencies - at least from what my somewhat trained ears can hear.   Why would I need to store that in FLAC?   Why would I even need to store it at 320kbsd?  That would cut off frequencies that probably were not even on the original recording.   

That's just my opinion anyway.
Putting that through MP3 compression is like transferring something from VHS to a 65MB MPEG file at 320x240. Sure, VHS technically can only store about 300 lines of resolution, its colour information is rather fragile, and it tends to take on a rather fuzzy look if it's more than a couple of years old, but put that tape on your TV and it'll most likely still look okay. However, put the data on that tape through heavy digital compression, and the remnants of the degraded data is completely compressed or crushed out, and additional digital artifacting is added that make it look awful when played on anything bigger than a phone screen from 8 years ago. Meanwhile, transfer a VHS at full DVD resolution(480i in America, 576i in Europe) with a fairly high bitrate, and it'll actually look pretty good. And with some work, you can filter out some of the noise, and enhance the colours, making it look better than the source.

Of course, this is all a metaphor. Here's how this applies to music: Get an old recording that you can't hear certain frequencies on, make a lossless copy, and run an EQ over it. With the right settings, you can make the bass clearer, give the mids more of an open/airy sound, and even reduce background hiss. However, if it's been run through an MP3, adding some of that airiness to the sound will also introduce an annoying jangling chains-like sound. You can try to make the bass clearer, but it will have lost a lot of definition in the MP3 compression process, making the already degraded audio sound even worse(e.g. You can't make out the bassline turns into it sounding like there's actually no bass playing at all).
The worst part of all of this is that these side-effects of EQing an MP3(Jangling chains, lost bass definition) are already audible on the non-EQ'd MP3 files themselves if you have good sound equipment(Good headphones(i.e. not Beats or ear buds) and a good/decent sound card), or even if you only have decent equipment, but you have a good ear.

On top of all this, as I've mentioned before, OGG is literally just a strictly better form of MP3 in the first place, and what you've got is the equivalent of people saving music to casette tape when DAT tapes are a better option for taped music, but CDs have already come out, rendering both obsolite. Except in this case, money isn't a factor.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 09:44:18 AM by Robo4900 »
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Offline Tony From Long Island

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #78 on: December 28, 2016, 11:23:43 AM »
Robo:  You do a good job of explaining and are very succinct.

With regard to switching to OGG, you say:    " . . . . Except in this case, money isn't a factor. . . . "     True, but time is a factor.  It would take me a VERY long time to switch my entire musical collection to OGG.     The only actual CDs I  have kept are my DT, Beatles and Barry Manilow  (dont' say a word - I have loved Barry since I was 4!!!!!).    So, I would have to download everything else I have  in a lossless format then convert them to OGG.       Ugh.

I guess it comes down to if the sound quality is acceptable to the listener.   For the most part, what I have right now is fine with me.   Perhaps I will start getting stuff from now on Lossless but for me to convert my collection is an overwhelming chore.

It's also quite likely that I have lost a lot of high end from several years of standing next to the drummer on small cramped bar stages.   :-(
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Offline AnybodyListening.net

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #79 on: December 29, 2016, 08:36:09 AM »
I've ripped my entire CD collection (at least 1,000 albums) to 256 kbps MP3s. I can't hear any loss, so it works for me. I have a modified iPod (a classic one modded so it has a ridiculous amount of storage) that everything is on, and it works for me. My bootlegs -- done the same thing. I've got probably every Queensryche show from the original lineup ever recorded, and all those CDs are ripped to 256 kbps MP3s that I listen to (I still have 3 copies of the originals on CD, and in .wav form). I can't tell the quality difference. They are bootlegs, after all...
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Offline Tony From Long Island

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2016, 10:34:40 AM »
I have one of the 160 gb ipods.           how large did you modify yours to?
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2016, 01:03:22 AM »
I've ripped my entire CD collection (at least 1,000 albums) to 256 kbps MP3s. I can't hear any loss, so it works for me. I have a modified iPod (a classic one modded so it has a ridiculous amount of storage) that everything is on, and it works for me. My bootlegs -- done the same thing. I've got probably every Queensryche show from the original lineup ever recorded, and all those CDs are ripped to 256 kbps MP3s that I listen to (I still have 3 copies of the originals on CD, and in .wav form). I can't tell the quality difference. They are bootlegs, after all...

Sometimes you can. Sometimes you can't. I'd rather just play it safe and keep it in lossless form. Hard drive space is cheap these days. You can get a 3TB drive for under $100.

Offline AnybodyListening.net

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #82 on: January 03, 2017, 03:28:29 PM »
I have one of the 160 gb ipods.           how large did you modify yours to?

I want to say it is 400 gb. It was the max capacity classic that was modified to the current size. It's connected to my car stereo at the moment, and I'm in the office, so not sure what size off-hand. But it's huge.


Sometimes you can. Sometimes you can't. I'd rather just play it safe and keep it in lossless form. Hard drive space is cheap these days. You can get a 3TB drive for under $100.

True enough. I don't rely solely on MP3s, however. My music collection is all CDs and CDRs, all lossless. But for my listening purposes, 256 kpbs mp3s sound absolutely fine, and I've got a pretty top notch audio system in my car. At work, I listen on headphones, and honestly, I still can't tell. Not at that bitrate.
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Offline Robo4900

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2017, 02:54:00 AM »
I have one of the 160 gb ipods.           how large did you modify yours to?

I want to say it is 400 gb. It was the max capacity classic that was modified to the current size. It's connected to my car stereo at the moment, and I'm in the office, so not sure what size off-hand. But it's huge.


Sometimes you can. Sometimes you can't. I'd rather just play it safe and keep it in lossless form. Hard drive space is cheap these days. You can get a 3TB drive for under $100.

True enough. I don't rely solely on MP3s, however. My music collection is all CDs and CDRs, all lossless. But for my listening purposes, 256 kpbs mp3s sound absolutely fine, and I've got a pretty top notch audio system in my car. At work, I listen on headphones, and honestly, I still can't tell. Not at that bitrate.
Fair enough. Here's the thing though, music is a very analogue thing, and everyone's ears are different. So what works for you may be completely unacceptable for someone else.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: A mega collection of bootlegs
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2017, 12:25:07 PM »
You said it right, Robo. There's no one right answer here as everyone hears differently. I am glad that hearing MP3s make me cringe as compared to listening to the sound of a CD or other lossless media.  :lol