Author Topic: Dream TheateRadio!  (Read 7534 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2014, 02:40:29 PM »
@chaossystem:  This thread is not the place to discuss mod decisions relating to a completely separate thread.  I have already given you an explanation via PM. 

Second, you have been told by several people that your posts become very difficult to read when you attempt to quote and do not do it properly.  Posts that do not properly use the quote feature and end up being a mess of broken quotes will simply be deleted from this point forward.
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Offline James Mypetgiress

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2014, 02:47:03 PM »
@chaossystem:  This thread is not the place to discuss mod decisions relating to a completely separate thread.  I have already given you an explanation via PM. 

Second, you have been told by several people that your posts become very difficult to read when you attempt to quote and do not do it properly.  Posts that do not properly use the quote feature and end up being a mess of broken quotes will simply be deleted from this point forward.

Is it just me, or do the admins get involved in every post chaossystem makes?!

Offline chaossystem

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2014, 03:03:36 PM »
@chaossystem:  This thread is not the place to discuss mod decisions relating to a completely separate thread.  I have already given you an explanation via PM. 



Understood, Bosk.

But I posted the message to Hef BEFORE I saw that post from you and responded to it.

I"m still working on the "quote" thing.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2014, 03:32:09 PM »
They were doomed as soon as Nirvana came out.

Any band, really. DT were riding the very tail end of the 80's excesses, and full engaged in it, with the operatic singer and the blistering solos. They adjusted their sound over time to be more relevant, particularly Awake, but it was always a bit too late. I always said that James was their most career-hindering choice. Even though it was a dick move to do so publicly, even MP said do.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2014, 03:43:53 PM »
But what were they supposed to do? Change singers every album because of what was going on around them? What MP said was very poor. James actually gave I&W a certain accessability. He has a nice clean voice, and he's great on Awake.
Even in the I&W days, I remember thinking that the "singer" in this band is going to be in a tough position.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline rumborak

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2014, 04:05:26 PM »
Nirvana's Nevermind was released in 1991, a year before IAW. I seriously think that DT did a bad choice with choosing an operatic tenor when the writing was clearly on the wall.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2014, 04:10:06 PM »
I guess I see your point, but I still don't know what would've been a better solution. They've really done fine with him, basically leading the movement. I think he's a vastly underrated part of their story and success.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline cramx3

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2014, 04:12:14 PM »
I guess I see your point, but I still don't know what would've been a better solution. They've really done fine with him, basically leading the movement. I think he's a vastly underrated part of their story and success.

I agree with this and the band at that time had tried out a lot of singers so he clearly clicked with the band at that moment so its hard to say that he wasnt the best choice for the band.  To say he wasnt the best choice given the music that was trending at that time, now that is definitely questionable.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2014, 04:14:59 PM »
I personally have to disagree. In the grand scheme of things, as much as James is these days the voice of DT, they could have been far more accessible by combining the prog metal elements with a more understated singer, one who dominates by his timbre, and the actual notes (and how they interact with the chords).
As an example, one of the greatest prog singers is Peter Gabriel. He has virtually no range to speak of, but it was rather his timbre and his choice of notes that made him such a great singer. Or take David Bowie, same thing.
I always felt that DT bred a certain shallowness in their fans, as somewhat evidenced by this whole "at what point in JLB' s career was he able to hit an F#".
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Offline TAC

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2014, 04:20:27 PM »
Peter Gabriel?

I always felt that DT bred a certain shallowness in their fans, as somewhat evidenced by this whole "at what point in JLB' s career was he able to hit an F#".

Well, this is what I was kind of referring to then I said the whoever was their singer was in a tough position. As a "musician's" band, they would still need a singer to be relevant. That was clear in 1993.

Rumbo, I'm still confused as to who or what kind of singer would've been a better choice. I hope you're not implying Gabriel would be.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline TAC

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2014, 04:21:50 PM »
To say he wasnt the best choice given the music that was trending at that time, now that is definitely questionable.
And Rumbo, what Cram said might be true, and I think it's what you're saying, but it even makes their choice more bolder, IMO.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline rumborak

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2014, 04:33:11 PM »
Peter Gabriel?

I always felt that DT bred a certain shallowness in their fans, as somewhat evidenced by this whole "at what point in JLB' s career was he able to hit an F#".

Well, this is what I was kind of referring to then I said the whoever was their singer was in a tough position. As a "musician's" band, they would still need a singer to be relevant. That was clear in 1993.

Rumbo, I'm still confused as to who or what kind of singer would've been a better choice. I hope you're not implying Gabriel would be.

I was using Peter Gabriel as the extreme example of where timbre and thoughtful melody construction overcame more tangible stats such as range. If I had to name a singer, I would (just as MP did) name Mike Patton.
But seriously, I don't think I'm the only one who liked DT *despite* the singing. It took me a long time to get used to JLB, and even to this day, I find his vocals to be more of an afterthought. I remember listening to the BCSL instrumental tracks the first time and thinking, "these are complete songs. They just repeated certain sections to leave space for a singer".
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Offline TAC

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2014, 04:40:20 PM »
But Mike Patton would've been an afterthought too.
Personally, there's nothing about Mike Patton that sticks out talent wise that puts him even remotely on par with the musicianship in the band. He's more lively on stage though, I'll give you that.

My wife can't stand James! :lol Any singer will have their fans and detractors alike.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline cramx3

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2014, 04:42:53 PM »
Maybe this is why I disagree with this, I love JLB.  I&W is as close to perfect of an album I have heard.  Its hard for me to think that JLB is not the best for the band.  The previous demos with different singers and with Charlie dont cut it for me. 

However, I do know people who do not like DT specifically because of the singing.  So I can see why someone would think the band would be more successful with someone else.

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2014, 04:46:42 PM »
But Mike Patton would've been an afterthought too.
Personally, there's nothing about Mike Patton that sticks out talent wise that puts him even remotely on par with the musicianship in the band. He's more lively on stage though, I'll give you that.

My wife can't stand James! :lol Any singer will have their fans and detractors alike.

what the FUCK

have you heard Mike Patton sing? Granted he wouldn't fit with DT, but the man's skill is insane.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2014, 04:46:51 PM »
But Mike Patton would've been an afterthought too.
Personally, there's nothing about Mike Patton that sticks out talent wise that puts him even remotely on par with the musicianship in the band. He's more lively on stage though, I'll give you that.

I disagree. Mike Patton certainly has an artistic vision, and I yet have to hear a project he's been in where he just showed up and sang the lines he was told. Which is what James has done for most of his career.
To put it intentionally extreme, DT is an instrumental band that has a permanent hired gun as a singer to increase their appeal.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 04:54:14 PM by rumborak »
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Offline Outcrier

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2014, 05:00:26 PM »
But Mike Patton would've been an afterthought too.
Personally, there's nothing about Mike Patton that sticks out talent wise that puts him even remotely on par with the musicianship in the band.


Fixed  :P
But, seriously, i can't understand why someone would think this after hearing some of his work with Mr. Bungle or his other countless projects (granted that i ain't THAT acquainted with his work but, goddamn if he's not amazing on pretty much everything i've ever heard from him).
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 05:07:38 PM by Outcrier »
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Offline TAC

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2014, 05:00:45 PM »
But Mike Patton would've been an afterthought too.
Personally, there's nothing about Mike Patton that sticks out talent wise that puts him even remotely on par with the musicianship in the band. He's more lively on stage though, I'll give you that.

My wife can't stand James! :lol Any singer will have their fans and detractors alike.

what the FUCK

have you heard Mike Patton sing? Granted he wouldn't fit with DT, but the man's skill is insane.

Well, I've heard one FNM album, and have seen FNM once and Mr. Bungle twice.

To put it intentionally extreme, DT is an instrumental band that has a permanent hired gun as a singer to increase their appeal.
That's not extreme at all. That's exactly what happened and I felt that way in 1993.

Hiring Patton would've been interesting in that he really would've needed his own space and that may have not jived with the band's vision.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline cramx3

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2014, 06:16:57 PM »
Definitely not, in Lifting Shadows it seemed pretty clear the band did not want a singer who was going to take all the attention.

Offline TAC

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2014, 07:12:47 PM »
But Mike Patton would've been an afterthought too.
Personally, there's nothing about Mike Patton that sticks out talent wise that puts him even remotely on par with the musicianship in the band.


Fixed  :P
But, seriously, i can't understand why someone would think this after hearing some of his work with Mr. Bungle or his other countless projects (granted that i ain't THAT acquainted with his work but, goddamn if he's not amazing on pretty much everything i've ever heard from him).

You're obviously a Patton fan and that's cool. I don't dislike him or anything. In fact, I found him very charismatic. But honestly, Faith No More did nothing for me, and Mr. Bungle was a hot mess of noise. A great show in a club setting, but definitely not my thing musically.

Would Dream Theater be where they are had Mike Patton joined them in 1991 instead of James? Hard to say, but it's hard to argue with their success with James.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Zook

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2014, 07:18:06 PM »
I can't stand Mike Patton. The guy is overrated as fuck.

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2014, 07:51:02 PM »
To put it intentionally extreme, DT is an instrumental band that has a permanent hired gun as a singer to increase their appeal.

Of course by putting it that extreme, you're grossly embellishing the actual situation.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2014, 08:04:57 PM »
But Mike Patton would've been an afterthought too.
Personally, there's nothing about Mike Patton that sticks out talent wise that puts him even remotely on par with the musicianship in the band.


Fixed  :P
But, seriously, i can't understand why someone would think this after hearing some of his work with Mr. Bungle or his other countless projects (granted that i ain't THAT acquainted with his work but, goddamn if he's not amazing on pretty much everything i've ever heard from him).

Maybe you should look at it from TAC age group.  We grew up with singers like James in the 80's and we loved it.  I personally was all over the place and while I like Mike Patton a ton, he would have not fit with what DT was doing at the time.  Now maybe there was someone else that could fit better.  Hell, TAC listened to Pantera and his styling were different for the time.
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2014, 08:10:01 PM »
I don't think anyone's saying that he would have been a good fit for DT, but saying there's "nothing that sticks out talent wise" is honestly pretty hard to comprehend.

Offline Mosh

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2014, 08:12:13 PM »
To put it intentionally extreme, DT is an instrumental band that has a permanent hired gun as a singer to increase their appeal.

Of course by putting it that extreme, you're grossly embellishing the actual situation.
In some cases it's true though. Like on albums like BC&SL where the band writes the music and then James comes in to do the vocals later. There are lots of times where the vocals seem like a clear afterthought in DT.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2014, 08:13:18 PM »
That's the 80's fan in him.  James style of singing was very prevalent in the 80's and it's what TAC likes.  I think early on I thought Mike Patton was an OK singer but damn he turned out to be a monster of a singer.  Taste man, tastes.
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So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2014, 08:26:23 PM »
In some cases it's true though. Like on albums like BC&SL where the band writes the music and then James comes in to do the vocals later. There are lots of times where the vocals seem like a clear afterthought in DT.

Well, I'm not gonna comment on BC&SL, because it's one of my least favorite of their albums. Second least favorite, actually.

But to say that JLB is a "permanent hired gun" is just plain disrespectful. He's the front man for the band, not just in terms of singing the songs, but being the face and the voice of the band. And sure, there was a time when Portnoy just wanted to do ALL the speaking on behalf of the band, at interviews and such, but hey, if you asked me, I would've said that wasn't right anyway.
As soon as Portnoy was gone, JLB really stepped up as the frontman for the band though. He's been doing more interviews, and informing everyone about what's going on in the band.

And again, albums like BCSL aside, most of DT's discography showcase JLB's vocal capabilities really well. His range has always been amazing, and even in hard times, when his voice was at its worst, he still had insane vocal capabilities, and for a band which prides itself on being an all around fantastic group of musicians, masters of their craft, JLB easily fits into that category, and is an integral part of what makes Dream Theater complete.
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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #62 on: August 27, 2014, 09:03:40 PM »
You're obviously a Patton fan and that's cool.

No, i ain't, i already said i don't know that much of his work (he has tons of projects).

But honestly, Faith No More did nothing for me, and Mr. Bungle was a hot mess of noise. A great show in a club setting, but definitely not my thing musically.

That's fine but disliking both bands don't make him talentless i guess.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2014, 05:24:38 AM »
Thanks King! Fogeys! :metal

But honestly, Faith No More did nothing for me, and Mr. Bungle was a hot mess of noise. A great show in a club setting, but definitely not my thing musically.

That's fine but disliking both bands don't make him talentless i guess.

No it doesn't.  But what I said was :

Personally, there's nothing about Mike Patton that sticks out talent wise that puts him even remotely on par with the musicianship in the band. 

James had a ton of talent that I believe put him on a level with the musicianship in the band. I have never felt that Mike Patton was on that level. Now I freely admit that I haven't heard a thing he's done after 1993/94. He could have turned himself into Pavorrati for all I know. But based on what I heard up to that point, I did not feel that he was as great as singer as MP was a drummer, or as JP was a guitarist, or as JM was a bassist, etc.. I did feel that way about James though, right out of the gate.
And that's really all I'm saying.


would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2014, 06:14:58 AM »
Tim, I do have to say Patton is a chameleon who can do different styles of music and is a talented singer for sure.  I personally don't think it would fit DT.  He's got game that's for sure.
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So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline TAC

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2014, 06:19:55 AM »
Tim, I do have to say Patton is a chameleon who can do different styles of music and is a talented singer for sure.  I personally don't think it would fit DT.  He's got game that's for sure.

Yeah. He definitely seemed creative enough. And charismatic too. I haven't followed him. I'm a music first guy, and there's nothing he's  been involved with musically that has interested me. I'm not saying he doesn't have talent. But in , it just didn't jump out at me the he would be as good of singer as the musical talent in the band.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2014, 06:31:14 AM »
ITT we learn not to disrespect Mike Patton

Come on. 
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Offline TAC

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2014, 06:36:54 AM »
ITT we learn not to disrespect Mike Patton

Come on.

Apparently! :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2014, 08:07:55 AM »
 :lol

Hef FTW of course.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Nick

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Re: Dream TheateRadio!
« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2014, 08:17:42 AM »
ITT we learn not to disrespect Mike Patton

Come on. 

Who the fuck does he think he is, Egypt?
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