Dream TheateRadio!

[chaossystem]

In a better world this wouldn't have happened...

Throughout the history of both the band and Rock/pop/metal/AOR/progressive/light rock/easy listening and talk radio (bumper music) I think there have been a LOT of missed opportunities! If they had gotten more "mainstream" airplay-especially in the early days-there wouldn't be so many people who have such a dismissive attitude towards the band.

What I MEAN is: If a lot of people in the right places had gotten their ACT together and marketed the band correctly, they could have had MONSTER success, pretty much everywhere! Some of these songs should have been taken to radio stations and the DJs be told "You WILL play this at least ONCE every day during your shift!" Not forever, but hopefully you know what I mean.

To begin with, the lead (first) singles should have been selected more carefully. As an example, "Surrounded" should have been the first single off of "Images." Then release "Pull Me Under" a little while later.
Then, like I said, the radio stations would be forced to play either some of their "singles-length" songs, or some edited versions.

So which songs from each album do YOU think should have been the lead-off singles from each album?
Which songs do you think best fit the formats of the different kinds of radio stations that currently exist?
Or do you prefer to just keep things the way they are?

[TheGreatPretender]

Every time I listen to Lie, it baffles me that it didn't become a hit. I mean, the main riff is awesome, it's got the right amount of attitude for mid-90s, the music video, if nothing else, is eye catching (though I think it's all around awesome). It's a damn shame.

[chaossystem]

Good example.

"Awake" came out between Metallica albums, and other "thrash" bands were either already popular or becoming so.

I would think a similar style of song would become a hit at that time.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I don't really know that it would have done much good. DT is still, at heart, a band that's not accessible to most people. Tricking people into checking the band out further via a mainstream single might get a few new fans, but most people are going to not care for it, and go back to the kind of music they like.

And that's fine.

[rumborak]

The high-pitched operatic vocals, the fast solos and (for many) hard-to-follow instrumental sections... DT has achieved more than I ever imagined was in their cards.

[Rodni Demental]

Some of the choice of singles could have been better, but a lot of them do make sense. I mean, I wouldn't change Pull Me Under to being the second single, that might break the universe and DT might not get their big break!

Also, the single choices for Awake kinda make sense too, I don't know what else they'd pick, maybe 6:00 or Innocence F added? But they're both a bit too much on the obscure side to make it big on radio so I think Caught in a Web and Lie made sense. Falling into Infinity had some questionable singles, even though you can almost understand why they used the ones they did (You Not Me/Hollow Years), even though they seem like songs that could be singles, I just don't think the content was strong enough as single material.

Scenes From a Memory had Home and Through Her Eyes, makes sense to me. Home would probably be my first choice for a single too, dunno what else would work out of context from the album. Then after that they pretty much gave up on singles. Train of Thought got As I Am released which is the most logical song from the album IMO. They didn't bother again with Octavarium which is surely a missed opportunity because of all the albums that had single material, at least half of this one could have been used. But at this point I don't think the label was pushing them to break through to anywhere in particular, they were just riding out the end of the recording contract.

Then with Road Runner they got back into it and all of their choices for SC/BL&SL/ADTOE/DT12 have made sense and are normally the shorter more concise songs (Forsaken, Wither, Along For The Ride, The Looking Glass), or the 'heavy rockers' (Constant Motion, A Rite Of Passage, On the Backs of Angels, Build Me Up Break Me Down, The Enemy Inside). My main complain is that the Constant Motion and A Rite of Passage singles were butchered and had solos and bridges stripped right out which is a just ridiculous to me.

What they really should have done, is have a follow up to Pull Me Under that wasn't Another Day. Just after PMU hit the big leagues while they were very much on the radar. My guess is that by 1993 it was too late for Take the Time to save them (irony much?), then again Metropolis, Under a Glass Moon, they are more technical than Pull Me Under so who knows, might have never worked on radio. And by 1994 they'd kinda fallen off the radar. Lie is alright, got some nice riffage in there, but it just isn't on the same scale as Pull Me Under, that song has something bigger and grander about it.

[hefdaddy42]

There may have been some missed opportunities along the way, but to suggest that PMU shouldn't have been the lead single from I&W is bizarre.  If that song didn't blow up, it is likely that the vast majority of us wouldn't be DT fans today.

[Another_Won]

I'm thinking about a longer response (may or may not get here) but I will take DT as they are (Take Me As I Am).  There may have been missed opportunities, I agree with that.  But  . . . and it's a big one . . . we would not have the DT we have now without what actually happened.  I wouldn't change a thing.  Image, for a moment, that after PMU they continued with their focus on pop hits and left their prog roots behind . . . what would we have now?  I contend that NONE of us would like it.  They would have been just another sell-out band with top 40 hits and no depth, feeling or AWESOME MUSIC.  But, maybe that's just me.  Maybe they could have been the next Metallica and had great mainstream success.  To me it wouldn't be the same.

IMHO they are perfect at what they did.  It is fun to talk about what could have been, but in the end . . . it worked out perfectly.

But don't let me stop this thread . . . speculate ON!!!!

[Outcrier]

There may have been some missed opportunities along the way, but to suggest that PMU shouldn't have been the lead single from I&W is bizarre.  If that song didn't blow up, it is likely that the vast majority of us wouldn't be DT fans today.

Yeah, i didn't understand that either (Pull Me Under being the most successful DT single ever).
Not releasing it first would be a missed opportunity.

[chaossystem]

All good points...

I guess what I was trying to do was put myself in the minds of the radio programmers (Stupid, I know!) and the people who let themselves be "programmed" by radio and other media.

I was originally going to list all of the songs from each album that might have made good singles, but then it occurred to me that with so many different formats, and the variety in the band's music, I would probably have ended up naming three or four tracks from each album. But what I MOSTLY had in mind was trying to come up with songs that would best represent the band's overall sound while still being SHORT enough to be considered "radio-friendly."

Maybe releasing a couple of songs like "A fortune in Lies" and "Afterlife" from "Dream and Day," and PMU from "Images" and THEN "Surrounded" would have been the way to go.

After that, I think all or most of their albums have songs that would be good for shutting up all of the smart-ass know-it-all's who keep saying shit like "most of their songs are longer than the DJ's shift!"

[bosk1]

But what I MOSTLY had in mind was trying to come up with songs that would best represent the band's overall sound while still being SHORT enough to be considered "radio-friendly."

The problem with your theory is that there are next to no songs that fit both of those criteria.

[rumborak]

I also don't see how them being huge would have made anything better. (other than them making more money)

[Deathless]

I also don't see how them being huge would have made anything better. (other than them making more money)

I think things probably worked out for them in the long run (even with MP's departure etc).

See Queensryche for example. Huge commercial success/3 year tour = huge burnout, change in sound etc...

[As I Am]

In a better world this wouldn't have happened...

Throughout the history of both the band and Rock/pop/metal/AOR/progressive/light rock/easy listening and talk radio (bumper music) I think there have been a LOT of missed opportunities! If they had gotten more "mainstream" airplay-especially in the early days-there wouldn't be so many people who have such a dismissive attitude towards the band.

What I MEAN is: If a lot of people in the right places had gotten their ACT together and marketed the band correctly, they could have had MONSTER success, pretty much everywhere! Some of these songs should have been taken to radio stations and the DJs be told "You WILL play this at least ONCE every day during your shift!" Not forever, but hopefully you know what I mean.

To begin with, the lead (first) singles should have been selected more carefully. As an example, "Surrounded" should have been the first single off of "Images." Then release "Pull Me Under" a little while later.
Then, like I said, the radio stations would be forced to play either some of their "singles-length" songs, or some edited versions.

So which songs from each album do YOU think should have been the lead-off singles from each album?
Which songs do you think best fit the formats of the different kinds of radio stations that currently exist?
Or do you prefer to just keep things the way they are?

Don't agree AT ALL! IMO, the ONLY DT "radio friendly" song in their whole catalog is "I Walk Beside You". They are NOT a radio band....thank GOD!

[BlobVanDam]

Every time I listen to Lie, it baffles me that it didn't become a hit. I mean, the main riff is awesome, it's got the right amount of attitude for mid-90s, the music video, if nothing else, is eye catching (though I think it's all around awesome). It's a damn shame.

Plenty about Lie baffles me, but it's not the lack of becoming a hit.

I think everything turned out better this way. A lot of what makes DT so good is that they're a big enough band to have the artistic freedom to do what they want and tour the world, but still relatively small enough to remain very much in touch with their fanbase and be accessible to them.

Their music just isn't a style that could be that popular. It's not about how good they are, it's about what appeals to the general public. DT's music would have to be different to achieve that, which I wouldn't want.

[TheGreatPretender]

Plenty about Lie baffles me, but it's not the lack of becoming a hit.

I think everything turned out better this way. A lot of what makes DT so good is that they're a big enough band to have the artistic freedom to do what they want and tour the world, but still relatively small enough to remain very much in touch with their fanbase and be accessible to them.

Their music just isn't a style that could be that popular. It's not about how good they are, it's about what appeals to the general public. DT's music would have to be different to achieve that, which I wouldn't want.

You know, I don't care if DT is popular or not, but I really wish they got more respect in the Rock and Metal circles. Nothing makes me happier than telling people that DT is my favorite band, and them saying, "Fucking A!" But more often than not, I hear stuff like, "You know, I only heard one song, but most people I talk to either love them or hate them." And the other day, someone actually asked me if it was a band or the name of a Theater. 

[BlobVanDam]

And the other day, someone actually asked me if it was a band or the name of a Theater. 

To which your reply should have been "yes".

[TheGreatPretender]

And the other day, someone actually asked me if it was a band or the name of a Theater. 

To which your reply should have been "yes".

Yes, because that's what I wanna do, confuse the guy, lol.

You know, I wouldn't care if someone asked that kind of a question, but the guy was a damn musician, and a Metal head! That's just not right.

[The Stray Seed]

I don't really know that it would have done much good. DT is still, at heart, a band that's not accessible to most people. Tricking people into checking the band out further via a mainstream single might get a few new fans, but most people are going to not care for it, and go back to the kind of music they like.

And that's fine.

Absolutely agree. Thanks for this post!

[?]

I don't really know that it would have done much good. DT is still, at heart, a band that's not accessible to most people. Tricking people into checking the band out further via a mainstream single might get a few new fans, but most people are going to not care for it, and go back to the kind of music they like.

And that's fine.

This. DT are about as big as they can get within their genre. According to some DT12 listening session report James had said that their record label had offered I Walk Beside You to radio stations in 2005, but it didn't generate any interest.

BTW, I actually like that none of their songs have become such huge hits that they have to be played at every show.

[rumborak]

Well, PMU was like that, until they almost permanently retired the song.

[MarkFitDT]

All good points...

I guess what I was trying to do was put myself in the minds of the radio programmers (Stupid, I know!) and the people who let themselves be "programmed" by radio and other media.

I was originally going to list all of the songs from each album that might have made good singles, but then it occurred to me that with so many different formats, and the variety in the band's music, I would probably have ended up naming three or four tracks from each album. But what I MOSTLY had in mind was trying to come up with songs that would best represent the band's overall sound while still being SHORT enough to be considered "radio-friendly."

Maybe releasing a couple of songs like "A fortune in Lies" and "Afterlife" from "Dream and Day," and PMU from "Images" and THEN "Surrounded" would have been the way to go.

After that, I think all or most of their albums have songs that would be good for shutting up all of the smart-ass know-it-all's who keep saying shit like "most of their songs are longer than the DJ's shift!"

I dont know for definite but I think that these were at least issued to radio :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq5fcvSFMXo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3D-Uc4PGqI

I used to have these CDs but sold them a long time ago on Ebay!

[dparrott]

Damn it, from the thread title, I thought this was for an all DT online station... 

I'm baffled that TSCO wasn't a hit.  It has an upbeat bounce to it, emotion, killer solo...

[chaossystem]

But what I MOSTLY had in mind was trying to come up with songs that would best represent the band's overall sound while still being SHORT enough to be considered "radio-friendly."

The problem with your theory is that there are next to no songs that fit both of those criteria.

I didn't say that they would be songs that would PERFECTLY represent the band's sound.

I was thinking mostly of songs that would be played on ROCK stations, like "6:00," "Innocence Faded," "Burning My Soul," "Just Let Me Breathe," "Strange Deja Vu,"  (MAYBE "The Spirit Carries On,") "About to Crash," "The Test That Stumped Them All," "As I Am," "Forsaken" "The Looking Glass" and "Along for the Ride," as well as the songs from the first two albums that I mentioned earlier.

Also, as I was thinking about this within the last couple of days, I remembered the fact that there are some AOR stations that will play some longer rock/metal tunes such as Metallica's "Master of Puppets" and Queensryche's "Eyes of a Stranger" unedited.
So maybe some of the 7 or 8 minute songs from "Dream and Day," or songs like "Take the Time," Under a Glass Moon,"  "Lie," "New Millennium," "Fatal Tragedy," "Constant Motion," "A Rite of Passage," and probably many others could be put into rotation, as well.
Of course I realize that a little bit of editing would have to be done to some these songs in order for them to make sense in the "radio singles" format, but I don't think it would RUIN the songs.

[cramx3]

Im fine with how the pieces landed for DT in the end.  The people behind promoting the band dropped the ball when the first album was released and Im not so sure that changed at all until Road Runner.  I think the problem probably lies within the fact that DT dont have a single sound to market.  They are too diverse and someone promoting them could think one way and someone else could think another.  Just look at this forum and there is so much diversity in what is the best album or best songs.  The amount of success the band has had is more than enough to satisfy how much I feel they should be loved.  The music isnt for everyone even if there were "better" singles picked.  I am glad they are where they are today.

[chaossystem]

I don't disagree with you, "Cram."

But I started this thread to deal with all the frustration I've had over the years that has been caused by people saying REALLY STUPID things like "they suck 'coz they dunt git plaiyed on thu raydeeo!" "Thay wuz jest uh wun-het wunder!" "theer nwat veree pwopulur!" (Spelling errors intended.)

Also wanted to say that you're right in that I didn't name songs like "lifting Shadows off a Dream" or "I walk Beside You," among others because I don't CARE for those songs, wouldn't have wanted them to be singles, and they probably have put me OFF of the band. So you're right in saying that not everyone would pick the same singles.

[cramx3]

But I started this thread to deal with all the frustration I've had over the years that has been caused by people saying REALLY STUPID things like "they suck 'coz they dunt git plaiyed on thu raydeeo!" "Thay wuz jest uh wun-het wunder!" "theer nwat veree pwopulur!" (Spelling errors intended.)

Yea, but I and I am sure most if not all of the people on this forum, have been dealing with people saying stupid comments like that with regards to DT or any band we like.  It sucks people can be close  minded, but that is life.

[chaossystem]

Exactly! I would be perfectly content if they (the detractors) would just say things like "I don't care for that kind of music," or "they don't play them on the same station where I hear my favorite songs by Beyonce, Kyle Minogue, Katy Perry, etc, a HUNDRED TIMES every day," "I've heard enough of their music to know that they'll never do anything without me thinking that it sucks!" Instead, they seem to speak from a position of IGNORANCE, because they've never actually given the band or it's music a CHANCE!

Like you said:
THAT'S LIFE.

[hefdaddy42]

I started this thread to deal with all the frustration I've had over the years that has been caused by people saying REALLY STUPID things like "they suck 'coz they dunt git plaiyed on thu raydeeo!" "Thay wuz jest uh wun-het wunder!" "theer nwat veree pwopulur!" (Spelling errors intended.)

Your profile says you are 51.  Who do you talk to that says things like that?

[Outcrier]

Yea, but I and I am sure most if not all of the people on this forum, have been dealing with people saying stupid comments like that with regards to DT or any band we like. It sucks people can be close  minded, but that is life.

Which is a irony since lots of people into prog are close minded as well.

[Mosh]

I'm not sure about that..I'd like to think people who listen to prog are generally more open minded.

[chaossystem]

 Who do you talk to that says things like that?
[/quote]

I was referring to things I've heard over the past several years.

I was also using the exaggerated wording to illustrate how ridiculous some of the ignorant statements that people will come up with can be.

So when are YOU going to answer MY question about the "dramatic departure" thread???

[hefdaddy42]

So when are YOU going to answer MY question about the "dramatic departure" thread???

Probably when you follow the instructions I have given you twice about it.

[Skeever]

They were doomed as soon as Nirvana came out. They've been very successful, all things considered, so don't worry about it.

[Dublagent66]

Well, internet radio has been available for some time now and you get the long songs too.  Too bad it wasn't available back in the early 90's.  DT could have definitely benefited from it.  But, it was never really their intention to become a radio band anyway even though PMU (edited) had great radio and video success.