Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton

[Chino]

Was that post serious?
Don't get too used to those nasty colorful plastic toy Daleks, because they ditch them very quickly after the unanimously negative fan reaction. They appear maybe once or twice more in S5, then I don't think they appear again.

Not in the least. I legitimately really liked the 9th doctor (never saw any of the doctors before that).

As for the daleks, why didn't people like them? We saw several variations throughout the season. Why were those particular ones hated? I thought they looked really great.

[BlobVanDam]

Was that post serious?
Don't get too used to those nasty colorful plastic toy Daleks, because they ditch them very quickly after the unanimously negative fan reaction. They appear maybe once or twice more in S5, then I don't think they appear again.

Not in the least. I legitimately really liked the 9th doctor (never saw any of the doctors before that).

As for the daleks, why didn't people like them? We saw several variations throughout the season. Why were those particular ones hated? I thought they looked really great.

The proportions are horrible, they're monstrously huge, and look like cheap tacky kid's toys rather than a threatening metallic cyborg death robot. They were iDaleks. The original Dalek design is so iconic, they shouldn't have tried to mess with it.

[Chino]

Was that post serious?
Don't get too used to those nasty colorful plastic toy Daleks, because they ditch them very quickly after the unanimously negative fan reaction. They appear maybe once or twice more in S5, then I don't think they appear again.

Not in the least. I legitimately really liked the 9th doctor (never saw any of the doctors before that).

As for the daleks, why didn't people like them? We saw several variations throughout the season. Why were those particular ones hated? I thought they looked really great.

The proportions are horrible, they're monstrously huge, and look like cheap tacky kid's toys rather than a threatening metallic cyborg death robot. They were iDaleks. The original Dalek design is so iconic, they shouldn't have tried to mess with it.

Ahh. I gotcha. Maybe because I've watched the series so quickly, I didn't have time to fall in love with the older/original designs.

[BlobVanDam]

I dunno, I started with the new series and got up to that point much quicker than you, and still hated the newer ones. Such an uninspired and unbalanced modern re-imagining.

[ariich]

I'm 6 episodes into season 5, and I'm not really digging the new doctor or Emilia 

I actually don't like the fact that they've started tying the entire story together. I liked it a lot more when every episode was just a random adventure.

What is this I don't even.

Each to their own I guess. Though I would say that there's nothing wrong with the series 5 Daleks, but you should start getting used to the world of Doctor Who fandom, where people react more strongly to things than is really warranted.

[BlobVanDam]

Each to their own I guess. Though I would say that there's nothing wrong with the series 5 Daleks, but you should start getting used to the world of Doctor Who fandom, where people react more strongly to things than is really warranted.

Doesn't this go for any fandom? Keep in mind what site you're on here.

[ariich]

Fair point, though some things are worse than others in that regard.

[BlobVanDam]

True. And I could certainly do without the subset of Doctor Who fans who overreacts to everything Moffat does.

[hefdaddy42]

FINALLY caught up on this season.  I have been avoiding this thread since I was so far behind.

What an excellent, excellent season.  Probably my favorite season ever, beating out my previous favorit # 7.  Capaldi is awesome, and that double shot of Heaven Sent/Hell Bent to end the season was glorious, majestic, and crushing.  Also, the Christmas special was a fantastic denouement for the season as well as for River Song.

Just great, great stuff.

So, I guess Clara is now Schrodinger's Cat?

Will we see Me again?

[Kotowboy]

Hell Bent made a big impression on me. I'm pretty claustrophobic as it is.

And I know he didn't remember the previous 4.5bn years ( was there a line in there that said he did remember? Surely that's not possible since each "new" Doctor was brand new and died

restarting the cycle so memories weren't transferred )... but still. Nightmarish.

[BlobVanDam]

Hell Bent made a big impression on me. I'm pretty claustrophobic as it is.

And I know he didn't remember the previous 4.5bn years ( was there a line in there that said he did remember? Surely that's not possible since each "new" Doctor was brand new and died

restarting the cycle so memories weren't transferred )... but still. Nightmarish.

He didn't remember anything, but by the end of each loop, he was aware of roughly how long he'd spent in there. Actually remembering 4.5bn years of memories of that would be even more horrible. And I'm glad they didn't try to do that, because I wouldn't believe he could have cared or remember about Clara for that long at that intensity.

[Kotowboy]

There was a line he said towards the end of the episode " I remember each time ".

I wonder what that meant.

[BlackInk]

I don't even remember that. I also don't think it would even be possible for him to remember all those times. So he probably meant something else.

[BlobVanDam]

There was a line he said towards the end of the episode " I remember each time ".

I wonder what that meant.

I took a look at the script to find the section, and I believe he's referring to remembering every time he loses a companion, because he's having trouble dealing with the loss of Clara and wants to give up entirely, and thinks it's futile to carry on when nothing he does will bring her back. He's overcome with grief.


THE DOCTOR
I can’t keep doing this. I can’t
always do this, it’s not fair! Just
this once, can’t I give in? Can’t I
lose??


He spins round on Clara -
- still standing with her back to him. But chalked on the
blackboard in front of her, a single word:
No!

The Doctor, staring hopelessly at that word.

THE DOCTOR (cont’d)
But I can remember, Clara. You
don’t understand, I can remember it
all. Every time!

Just the word No!

THE DOCTOR (cont’d)
And you’re still gone. Whatever I
do, you still won’t be here.

The Doctor sags. Like that admission ripped the heart out of
him.

And then, impossibly - her voice.
CLARA
Doctor.

He startles, looks at her. What?

And magically, impossibly -
- she turns to face him. Clara Oswald, fixing him in the eye.

CLARA (cont’d)
Stop it. Just stop.

He stares at her.

CLARA (cont’d)
You’re not the only person who ever
lost someone. It’s the story of
everybody. Get over it. Beat it.
Break free.
She steps towards him, puts a hand to his face.

CLARA (cont’d)
Doctor, it’s time. Get up off your
arse ... and win!

[ariich]

Yeah it was very obvious that he didn't remember them, but that once he reached the end of each incarnation, he'd worked it out.

[Kotowboy]

I like how when we join him - he's already many many cycles in as the water is already full of skulls.


Who knows how far he'd punched back the wall the first time we see it ?

[BlobVanDam]

I like how when we join him - he's already many many cycles in as the water is already full of skulls.


Who knows how far he'd punched back the wall the first time we see it ?

It took him roughly 4 and a half billion years to get through 20ft of wall. The first cycle we saw was approximately 7,000 years into his stay according to The Doctor's calculations.
With those numbers, I believe he had already worn through about 0.0095mm on the first loop we saw.

If we'd seen him on the first loop, we wouldn't have seen the writing in the sand or the intro with the person pulling the lever, and the whole setup wouldn't have been as cool and mysterious.

[ariich]

It took him roughly 4 and a half billion years to get through 20ft of wall. The first cycle we saw was approximately 7,000 years into his stay according to The Doctor's calculations.
With those numbers, I believe he had already worn through about 0.0095mm on the first loop we saw.

Nice.

[BlobVanDam]

It's been a while since I've updated on my classic Who viewing.

The Web of Fear - Solid story. I actually skipped overly The Abominable Snowmen because it was mostly missing and didn't seem that interesting, so I was lacking a bit of backstory, but nothing that hindered the story. I liked that The Doctor used some technical knowledge to solve the problem and command the Yeti.

Fury From The Deep - I almost skipped it because it's a missing story, but wanted to check it out solely because it was the first appearance of the sonic screwdriver. Another decent story. Pretty typical vaguely futuristic base overcome by a monster. It seems like there were some great visual moments in this one that are unfortunately lost. At least Victoria's departure had a little bit of buildup throughout the story, which makes it one of the better and less sudden early companion exits.

The Wheel in Space - One of the better Cyberman stories so far. The early part of the story on the spaceship before getting to the base was built up well, and I liked that they were suspicious of The Doctor and Jamie for appearing out of nowhere. The misc robot was pretty cool too. There were some good meaningful deaths in this story, which you get a lot in these older episodes.
Zoe was super duper annoying in this first appearance. DUR DUR LOGIC DUR DUR CALCULATIONS. I get the feeling they were trying to cash in on Spock's success with her character.

The Dominators - I quite liked this one. Zoe is already much better here. Pretty classic scifi setup with the radiated planet, and an invading alien force. The Dominators were a decent enemy, and I liked the funky robots aside from the fact you couldn't understand a single thing they were saying. It took me a while to even realize they were supposed to be saying words and not just making random robot noises. But they killed some people and blew shit up with some pretty impressive explosions.
This was a good one for The Doctor too, between playing dumb to the Dominators, and coming up with the plan to defeat them at the end. The ending was noticeably rushed due to being cut an episode, but that final explosion was cool. Strange use of the sonic screwdriver.

[ariich]

Zoe was super duper annoying in this first appearance. DUR DUR LOGIC DUR DUR CALCULATIONS. I get the feeling they were trying to cash in on Spock's success with her character.

SHUT UP DON'T DARE DIS ZOE

The Dominators - I quite liked this one. Zoe is already much better here.

Ok I'll let you off.

[BlobVanDam]

Zoe was super duper annoying in this first appearance. DUR DUR LOGIC DUR DUR CALCULATIONS. I get the feeling they were trying to cash in on Spock's success with her character.

SHUT UP DON'T DARE DIS ZOE

The Dominators - I quite liked this one. Zoe is already much better here.

Ok I'll let you off.

Yeah, it was only her first story she really grated on me, because they really pushed the logic thing. I'm fine with her now that she's settled into the normal companion role.
I'm half way through The Mind Robber at the moment. Enjoying it a lot more than I expected to from the description.

[Chino]

Literally minutes after I said "you know, I like that they're keeping Rory around. It's cool that the Doctor is travelling with a couple this time around", Rory goes and gets eaten by time and erased from all of existence.

The dual dream episode with the chirping birds was awesome.

[BlobVanDam]

Literally minutes after I said "you know, I like that they're keeping Rory around. It's cool that the Doctor is travelling with a couple this time around", Rory goes and gets eaten by time and erased from all of existence.

The dual dream episode with the chirping birds was awesome.

Ah yes, that would be Amy's Choice. That's a great episode, with bonus points for Rory's mullet!

[ariich]

Yeah, it was only her first story she really grated on me, because they really pushed the logic thing. I'm fine with her now that she's settled into the normal companion role.

Yeah, I think they wanted to make it clear that she wasn't a Victoria-style "runs around looking cute but being useless" companion. She is awesome though, definitely one of my favourites ever.

I'm half way through The Mind Robber at the moment. Enjoying it a lot more than I expected to from the description.

That's a pretty fun story.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm half way through The Mind Robber at the moment. Enjoying it a lot more than I expected to from the description.

That's a pretty fun story.

Yeah, I like having something different, and it's wacky. The way they worked in Jamie's absence was hilarious to me, just turning into some random dude. That other guy did a bang on job too!

[Onno]

Finally watched the Christmas special. It was really good, I loved the fact that River didn't recognize the Doctor until near the end. The tying up of River Song's story line was very good as well.

[masterthes]

So, no stirrings yet on the new companion? Are they keeping it under wraps, you think?

[Kotowboy]

[BlobVanDam]

So, no stirrings yet on the new companion? Are they keeping it under wraps, you think?

What's the usual schedule on these things? This is actually the first new companion since I've been a fan, which is kind of exciting. I don't know how far in advance they finalize casting on something so big.

[BlobVanDam]

I just finished off The Invasion, which was great. The Cyberman stories have definitely improved. Vaughn was an almost Bond-esque bad guy, a smart man in a battle of wits against both the Cyberman and the Doctor, which made for an interesting story. He also had that droopy eye thing going on which unintentionally added to it.
It was a good slow buildup to the Cybermen, so they weren't overused, and took a bit more to destroy than nail polish remover / slight radiation / the stink eye. They scope of the story was bigger than they could fully show, but they did a good job of it. It was still packed with action, with the grenades and rocket launchers and space missiles.
The shot of the Cyberman near St Paul's cathedral made me smirk now recognizing the homage in Dark Water / Death in Heaven, and finally seeing the backstory to Kate Lethbridge Stewart with the Cyberman head.
The animated episodes were ok. The faces looked really wonky, but still overall much better than the alternative of nothing, so it's still appreciated.

The attitude towards the girls was very '60s. Hey Zoe, do you want to do Doctor Who stuff? Nah, imma stay here and play dress ups.
Then when they finally made use of the photographer girl, they mostly dismissed her photos. At least Zoe got in some clever moments with the computer and the missile calculations at the end, but then I cringed a bit when the other guy said something like "can we keep her around? she's better looking than the computer". Never mind that she just saved the planet from an alien robot invasion with only half a minute to work with, she's pretty.


Next up, The Croutons Krotons. More robots. Most excellent.

[ariich]

They scope of the story was bigger than they could fully show

This basically sums up classic Who. It gets made fun of a lot for it, but I think focussing on the writing and acting and not worrying too much about production values reveals a lot to enjoy and makes it kind of endearing.

[BlobVanDam]

They scope of the story was bigger than they could fully show

This basically sums up classic Who. It gets made fun of a lot for it, but I think focussing on the writing and acting and not worrying too much about production values reveals a lot to enjoy and makes it kind of endearing.

Absolutely! I don't mean it as a criticism at all, I'm actually continually impressed by how ambitious they are, and the production values here have come a long way since the early episodes. They don't let the limitations of budget limit the stories they tell, they just have to tell the story differently.
The writing and acting has also impressed me since day 1. Troughton nails it in any situation, and I enjoy the classic scifi writing that focuses on story buildup and character development, for the big payoff at the end of a multi-part story.

I admit I had a little laugh every time an actor flubbed a line in those early episodes, but it didn't make me enjoy it any less, I did find it endearing. It was a reminder that these people were doing a lot with very little.

[ariich]

Indeed.

And yeah Troughton is excellent, one of my favourites!

[BlobVanDam]

It took me a while to get into Troughton just because there were so many missing episodes before I even got to SEE him. I think it wasn't until Evil of the Daleks that I was finally sold on him, but now I like him more than the first Doctor.

But as much as I love him, I'm also kind of excited to be getting close to a new Doctor, and moving up to colour, and finally seeing the Time Lords.

[ariich]

Woah: https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor-who/news/a780998/doctor-who-showrunner-steven-moffat-is-leaving-after-series-10-and-it-wont-air-until-2017/