Author Topic: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton  (Read 116083 times)

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #350 on: October 06, 2014, 07:49:27 PM »
I find it really random/arbitrary which episodes people decide to complain about the science. I can't see what was any worse in this episode than in, well, most episodes. :lol

And yeah, fantastic episode!

Doctor Who certainly isn't a show you hold up to the highest scrutiny (heck, next week's episode is a plain old train looking spaceship flying in a wiggly line through space huffing out smoke, wtf), but some things are more excusable than others. It's not arbitrary.

You have to accept the bad science that is part of the premise, like anything related to the TARDIS and its handling of time travel. It's very very soft scifi at the best of times.
But when you do an episode about Earth, you've got too many facts and known confines to contend with, and can't do such silly things without it sticking out. Our moon is an egg that has existed for millions/billions of years, but has only noticeably grown in the last 10 years, a space shuttle that flies directly to the moon and can crash land safely with enough bombs on board to destroy the moon, gravity issues, a giant alien hatches and can immediately lay another egg (hopefully smart enough to put it in a similar and stable orbit for another billion years until it hatches so it doesn't just burn up in our atmosphere), and flies off with no word of the hundred bombs that are probably floating towards the Earth.

If it's something completely alien, you can try to shrug this stuff off with "well it's an alien planet, maybe it just works differently there", but when it's Earth, it's just poorly thought out science fiction.
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Offline Scorpion

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #351 on: October 06, 2014, 08:16:53 PM »
See, I agree with the science being especially weak this episode, and it's largely for the reasons that Blob stated. However, since the episode doesn't exactly centre on that anyway, I don't really find it all that bad - though a convincing science backdrop might have elevated this one to the top spot of the season. But at the heart of this episode remains Clara and the increasingly straining relationship with the Doctor, and while the situation she was put in was engineered through a manner of scientific impossibilities, that doesn't take away from the fact that the relationship was realistically developed and extremely well portrayed by our two leads.

Plus that shot of the moon breaking up did look gorgeous.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #352 on: October 06, 2014, 08:36:04 PM »
See, I agree with the science being especially weak this episode, and it's largely for the reasons that Blob stated. However, since the episode doesn't exactly centre on that anyway, I don't really find it all that bad - though a convincing science backdrop might have elevated this one to the top spot of the season. But at the heart of this episode remains Clara and the increasingly straining relationship with the Doctor, and while the situation she was put in was engineered through a manner of scientific impossibilities, that doesn't take away from the fact that the relationship was realistically developed and extremely well portrayed by our two leads.

Plus that shot of the moon breaking up did look gorgeous.

I agree to all of that too. The monster in Caretaker wasn't all that important to the episode either, but there was plenty of character development there instead. The character moments in this week's episode were the highlight, and the main focus of the episode. I just wish that the episode they built those moments around was also equally good, then it would have been something really special, instead of having mixed feelings about it.

And your new avatar is throwing me off. I didn't recognize you! :lol
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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #353 on: October 06, 2014, 09:11:07 PM »
Agreed with BoobVanDam

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #354 on: October 07, 2014, 02:40:17 AM »
It's not arbitrary.
Well, I think people have defined some criteria for what counts as bad science and what counts as acceptable, but I find those criteria pretty arbitrary. Apart from the bit where Courtney started floating (which wasn't so much bad science as simply being unexplained), I didn't think ANYTHING in this episode was any better or worse than pretty much any other episode.

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #355 on: October 11, 2014, 09:13:47 AM »
:slayer: Somewhere, over the wasteland..... bootlegs fly :slayer:
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Offline GentlemanofDread

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #356 on: October 11, 2014, 10:14:57 AM »
NO STOP THAT.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #357 on: October 11, 2014, 01:32:34 PM »
that must be the oldest joke known to man :P

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #358 on: October 11, 2014, 02:50:25 PM »
that must be the oldest joke known to man :P
Well, in itself yes, but in this context it's more a reference to a key line from one of the episodes in series 1.

I really enjoyed tonight's episode, and I just have to say, Clara was looking SMOKIN'! :heart

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Offline GentlemanofDread

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #359 on: October 11, 2014, 02:51:48 PM »
Frank Skinner had to be my favourite guest star Doctor Who has ever had.
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Offline Scorpion

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #360 on: October 11, 2014, 04:54:01 PM »
I loved every aspect of the episode, both the big things - the acting, the plot, the whole idea behind it all - and the little things - the ARE YOU MY MUMMY joke, Clara being seriously hot, the whole conversation at the end about the impossible choice - but I do wish there would have been some more closure on what happened at the end of KtM. Yeah, it sorta worked, but it was a little handwaved, and I think that it would have been better had Clara exited the TARDIS like she had originally planned and would then join The Doctor again in the next episode - which seems to be set in her time as well, so it could be like, I dunno, six months for her during which she comes to the realisation that she wants to continue travelling with the Doctor more gradually than the fliparound at the end.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #361 on: October 11, 2014, 07:15:33 PM »
I really enjoyed tonight's episode, and I just have to say, Clara was looking SMOKIN'! :heart

She's looked amazing all season, and tonight was still one of her better ones. I think my favourite is still when she stepped out of the TARDIS at the start of Robot of Sherwood with the long hair and dress.  :heart

I thought this was a very good episode, but I also felt the Clara thing was a bit rushed. I thought they'd at least have one episode where she was apart from him, and talking it over with Danny, while The Doctor was on his own adventure, so to see her come out of the TARDIS with The Doctor right at the start was a bit jarring, and they resolved it a bit quick. The episode did a reasonable job of dealing with it throughout, so it was mostly fine, just unexpected.

Aside from that, no complaints. Some good callbacks to earlier episodes, and I liked the story.
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Offline masterthes

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #362 on: October 11, 2014, 08:04:35 PM »
I was really hoping for an are you my mummy joke and they did not disappoint. Really good episode, and yes, Jenna looked really good tonight. Robb Stark is one lucky bastard

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #363 on: October 12, 2014, 01:17:26 AM »
In terms of the angry Clara thing, I was a bit surprised at first, but then they made it clear that a few weeks had passed where they hadn't seen each other. So in plot terms it all makes sense, we just didn't get to see it, which is a shame. I thought they covered it very nicely - right from the start you could tell something was up.

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #364 on: October 12, 2014, 01:57:43 AM »
In terms of the angry Clara thing, I was a bit surprised at first, but then they made it clear that a few weeks had passed where they hadn't seen each other. So in plot terms it all makes sense, we just didn't get to see it, which is a shame. I thought they covered it very nicely - right from the start you could tell something was up.

They did a good job throughout the episode, but they've made a habit of telling rather than showing this season. The Clara/Danny Pink relationship has been very weak for that reason, basically skipping from awkward first date to deeply in love, so that's still not believable at this point. Telling the audience something happened with a passing remark doesn't have any of the emotional connection or impact of actually showing it, which is important for drama.

In this episode it was jarring to have Clara pop out after The Doctor at first as if nothing happened, and even taking the rest of the episode into account it felt like they skipped over an important part of the process of her returning, given how big the blowup was last episode, which devalued the ending of Kill the Moon slightly too.

It didn't affect the episode itself, but it still felt like an emotional gap to me. I think there should have been something inbetween the two episodes to bridge that. Yes, we were told things happened inbetween, but without showing it, it's not going to be as effective.


With that said, what they've showed on screen has been very strong this season, and the episode did a good job of picking things up after that, so I don't hold that point against this episode at all. It's a minor gripe with the progression of the season itself more than anything. I thought the episode itself was great.
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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #365 on: October 12, 2014, 03:35:36 AM »
I thought this episode was really great. Still love series 8 so far.

Offline Mister Gold

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #366 on: October 12, 2014, 07:40:19 AM »
I really enjoyed tonight's episode, and I just have to say, Clara was looking SMOKIN'! :heart

She's looked amazing all season, and tonight was still one of her better ones. I think my favourite is still when she stepped out of the TARDIS at the start of Robot of Sherwood with the long hair and dress.  :heart

Yeah, Jenna was actually voted as the Sexiest Companion in Who history almost immediately after she first joined the cast and had only appeared in Asylum of the Daleks at that point, if my memory serves me right. This was definitely the hottest she's looked all season long, imo. :heart

Also, this episode was full of sexual tension between her and the Doctor. I definitely prefer this over the blatant flirting we had with 11 and Clara. This feels more distinctive and fresh in comparison to previous Doctor romances lately.
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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #367 on: October 12, 2014, 08:46:12 AM »
Yeah, Clara looked really great with that short hair.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #368 on: October 12, 2014, 09:19:18 AM »
When the doctor says " a mummy that only the victim can see " - he sounded exactly like Tom Baker.

Was it supposed to be the fourth doctor speaking through him ?



PS - someone explain the " are you my mummy " *joke* - other than the literal meaning of it.

Is it significant in DW ?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 09:58:02 AM by Kotowboy »

Offline Jaq

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #369 on: October 12, 2014, 09:57:28 AM »
I don't think so, just how much of an influence Tom Baker's performance is on Capaldi as the Doctor. He draws a LOT from that.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #370 on: October 12, 2014, 09:58:33 AM »
I don't think so, just how much of an influence Tom Baker's performance is on Capaldi as the Doctor. He draws a LOT from that.

I've noticed he mentions the fourth doctor a few times.

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #371 on: October 12, 2014, 10:04:10 AM »
The 'mummy' joke is a referense to the series 1 episodes 'The Empty Child' and 'The Doctor Dances'. The 9th doctor and Rose encounters a small child with a gas mask who wanders around WWII London saying nothing but "Are you my mommy". Also Moffat's first Doctor Who episodes.

Offline masterthes

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #372 on: October 12, 2014, 10:21:03 AM »
Speaking of the Fourth, anybody catch the jelly babies?

Offline Mister Gold

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #373 on: October 12, 2014, 10:30:12 AM »
Speaking of the Fourth, anybody catch the jelly babies?

YES. :tup

As for the talking to himself bit, apparently it's been hinted at before that the preceding Doctors still exist as part of the Doctor's subconscious (i.e. "This is exactly what it's like in my head" in Day of the Doctor), so I could actually believe that Capaldi was imitating T. Baker as a means of Twelve chatting with Four for advice.
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Offline Jaq

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #374 on: October 12, 2014, 10:30:28 AM »
Was kind of hard to miss.  :lol And speaking as someone who still rates Tom Baker as the best Doctor, the more they draw on the Fourth Doctor, the better in my book.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #375 on: October 12, 2014, 10:37:00 AM »
I wonder if Capaldi suggested he channel the 4th Doctor or whether it was a decision by the writers / creators.


Anyway - I can't help but smile every time he references T. Baker with the

" There used to be more circles on the wall " or " I miss my long scarf " and of course the jelly babies. Seems he can imitate his voice quite well too.

Offline Mister Gold

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #376 on: October 12, 2014, 10:40:26 AM »
I wonder if Capaldi suggested he channel the 4th Doctor or whether it was a decision by the writers / creators.


Anyway - I can't help but smile every time he references T. Baker with the

" There used to be more circles on the wall " or " I miss my long scarf " and of course the jelly babies. Seems he can imitate his voice quite well too.

From the sound of things, it was probably Capaldi. Apparently, aside from being a massive fan of the Pertwee and Baker years to begin with, he went into the show immediately knowing how he wanted to play the role and how his Doctor should be written.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #377 on: October 12, 2014, 10:46:16 AM »
Speaking of the Fourth, anybody catch the jelly babies?
Yeah that cracked me up. Especially because the professor guy seemed to think it was perfectly normal and selected a particularly exquisite one. :lol

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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #378 on: October 13, 2014, 03:02:27 PM »
Really liked the episode! Love Capaldi's Doctor!

And even though I was expecting it, the "are you my mummy?" still creeped me out. Goddamned you, The Empty Child!
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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #379 on: October 17, 2014, 03:26:33 PM »
Re-watched it, and I felt a lot better about the whole Clara/Doctor thing this time around. This is definitely one of my favourites, such a great episode all around! I've seen some people bash on Frank Skinner in reviews, which I can not for the life of me understand, Perkins is such a great character - I love how he's not at all intimidated by the Doctor.

Rankings (this is DTF, yo)

1. Listen
2. Mummy on the Orient Express
3. Kill the Moon

4. Deep Breath
5. Into the Dalek
6. The Caretaker
7. Time Heist




8. Robot of Sherwood

Also seasons:

S5
S8
S7
S1
S6
S4
S3
S2
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #380 on: October 17, 2014, 07:14:50 PM »
Flatline looks like it's going to be a trippy episode. The previews of it have some crazy crap going on. It looks like The Doctor is mostly going to be stuck in the TARDIS for the episode, but I think it may end up being one of my favourites from the season so far.
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Offline Onno

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #381 on: October 18, 2014, 03:12:23 AM »
Finally caught up again yesterday -  I thought Kill the Moon was good but it somehow felt a bit weird because the science was just bad. Mummy on the Orient Express was WAY better than I expected it to be, I loved it!

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #382 on: October 18, 2014, 11:23:35 AM »
I just caught up on the last four episodes.

I enjoyed Time Heist but couldn't get past the paradox of how it all went down (like, how did she call him if he wasn't there giving the number to her, but how did he get there without her calling?).
The Caretaker was okay but probably my least favorite of the four.
Kill the Moon was really enjoyable, despite the science. I also don't mind Courtney.
Mummy was great! Can't wait for today's!
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #383 on: October 18, 2014, 08:53:25 PM »
I loved Flatline. Lots of great visual effects and creative ideas, and the mini TARDIS exterior was a fun concept. The only thing that I didn't buy was that kid being able to spray paint a photo realistic image like that. Aside from that, it was great.
And I guess Missy's line at the end sort of confirms that she was the one who gave the TARDIS phone number to Clara? It was expected anyway, but I'm glad to see a bit of progress on that arc.

Next week's episode doesn't look too exciting. Hopefully it proves me wrong.

I enjoyed Time Heist but couldn't get past the paradox of how it all went down (like, how did she call him if he wasn't there giving the number to her, but how did he get there without her calling?).

You should be well used to causality loops by now with Doctor Who! :lol

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Offline GentlemanofDread

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #384 on: October 18, 2014, 11:20:33 PM »
Having known some street graffiti artists and seen some work around where I live, I can.

Enjoyable episode, very freaky creatures and it does add another wrinkle to the Doctor/Clara interaction.

Next episode will have the complaint, I suspect, we've had previously: It'll tell us about something big but not show us. In this case, Clara/Danny/Doctor argument.
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