Author Topic: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton  (Read 116039 times)

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Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1260 on: July 16, 2017, 05:44:49 AM »
I don't even have an idea of who the rumoured candidates were.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1261 on: July 16, 2017, 07:59:12 AM »
I don't even have an idea of who the rumoured candidates were.
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/cult/feature/g24518/everyone-rumoured-to-play-new-doctor-who/ :P

I don't have any strong views. Though while I don't really care about race and gender myself - a good actor/character is good regardless - I will be a bit disappointed if they cast yet another white man. Especially considering there is now solid precendent that time lords can change gender and skin colour when they regenerate.

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Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1262 on: July 16, 2017, 08:10:35 AM »
Why would that be a disappointment? It's not like it brings anything to the table.
Would not mind Natalie Dormer in the slightest.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1263 on: July 16, 2017, 09:29:19 AM »
Interesting and

SPOILER


















not overly surprising given Chibnall as showrunner!

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1264 on: July 16, 2017, 09:30:52 AM »
I'm actually really happy with this choice! Definitely my top choice of the female options.
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Offline Mister Gold

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1265 on: July 16, 2017, 09:35:41 AM »
Very excited about the new Doctor! Whittaker's gonna rock it! :metal
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Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1266 on: July 16, 2017, 09:37:35 AM »
I've seen Broadchurch but I have no memory of Whittaker. It's gonna be interesting for sure.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1267 on: July 16, 2017, 09:43:41 AM »
She's an excellent actress. Haven't seen her in any Doctor-esque roles before but doesn't mean she hasn't been in any or that she can't do them.

Should definitely be interesting!

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Offline masterthes

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1268 on: July 16, 2017, 09:48:15 AM »
I'm definitely willing to give her a try. I hope the regeneration change is going to be hillarious, like oh, what are these?

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1269 on: July 16, 2017, 09:54:13 AM »
Can't wait to see what kind of outfit they go with too. This is important stuff! I liked that the promo used 12's jacket and hoody to hide the identity. Nice reveal. That should make for an interesting regeneration sequence.

Also, pretty sure someone messed up the TARDIS in the promo. Looks like they used Tennant's box, with the thinner columns, no white edging on the windows, no St John's logo, duller blue etc.
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Offline masterthes

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1270 on: July 16, 2017, 10:03:19 AM »
I just hate how Chinball kept saying he was aiming to keep the Doctor male, unless this was a last minute kind of thing. How long ago was she cast?

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1271 on: July 16, 2017, 11:22:51 AM »
This is a huge gamble, but a gamble that could potentially pay off!

I'm indifferent about this choice, i'll be judging her based on her first episode.

I'm wondering how well this will go over with the diehard fans? Pretty sure that a lot of people will not be happy about this.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1272 on: July 16, 2017, 11:32:59 AM »
"Diehard" fans find something to bitch about regardless, whether it's The Doctor, the showrunner, etc. But they've been laying the groundwork for this for a few years now, and the end of this season hinted in this direction, so it's not unexpected or out of nowhere.
If people don't like the casting choice based on her acting in other roles, that's fine though.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1273 on: July 16, 2017, 01:43:18 PM »
I just hate how Chinball kept saying he was aiming to keep the Doctor male, unless this was a last minute kind of thing. How long ago was she cast?
First rule of being Dr Who showrunner: lie about everything.

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1274 on: July 16, 2017, 11:34:02 PM »
It might not have been a lie. I recall that statement being made a while ago, so a lot could have happened in the meantime.
Even if his original intention was to have a male Doctor, they would have auditioned females either way, and he may have changed his mind. Or maybe the BBC pushed in that direction. Fans were probably also very vocal after that statement was made. There are many possible factors.

I suspect the people higher up have been planning this for a while. Personally I don't think this was a last minute decision or token casting, because the entire Capaldi era has been setting this up, and I'm actually glad they waited until now to ease into it in-universe, rather than have it come out of nowhere. I'm very wary of gender swap casting, but I think they've done this right, and now they're more free in future to cast whoever is best for the part.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1275 on: July 16, 2017, 11:46:37 PM »
They've been setting it up since before Capaldi. First mention I can remember was in The Doctor's Wife (2011) which I think was the first time it was revealed that time lords can change gender when they regenerate.

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1276 on: July 17, 2017, 12:02:40 AM »
Even better. I don't recall that reference, so I'll be sure to take notice when I get to it in my rewatch.
Still, I don't feel the show was quite ready for it when they cast Capaldi. This time, it almost felt inevitable. We've had Michelle Gomez's fantastic portrayal of Missy over the past 3 series, we saw a white male regenerate into a black female in Hell Bent, and The Doctor's conversation with Bill in World Enough and Time felt like it was bringing it all together ready for this to eventuate. I don't know if this was their plan all along, or whether it just came together that way this time, but I think they've done a good job setting it up, and I'm confident in their casting choice.
So I'm definitely excited and interested to see what S11 brings.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1277 on: July 17, 2017, 12:37:30 AM »
I can already see the accusations of sexism if the show isn't good and criticized by a lot of people (like GB). I hate the politicization of everything these days so much.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1278 on: July 17, 2017, 01:20:24 AM »
Yeah. The more i think about, the more it makes sense for them to do this change now. With the new showrunner and everything.

This has been in the works for years. It's not like they came up with it yesterday.

Honestly this could be a great way to bring new life into the show, Capaldi's last season was pretty average unfortunately.

This is a cool choice IMO. But judging by the reaction on the interwebs, this will be a very divisive choice.

Offline soupytwist

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1279 on: July 17, 2017, 02:32:07 AM »
I'm much more concerned with how they write the character because of the gender, rather than the gender itself. Doctor Who since it's return (and sometimes in the old show) has the habit of making the female characters the more strong, sensible ones, more streetwise - often the morale compass. The males (and certainly including the Doctors) are often socially inept, aloof, geeky and childish. If this continues we will have a perfect female Doctor and a comedy sidekick male.

To make Jodie work as the Doctor they have to be willing to give her flaws.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1280 on: July 17, 2017, 04:03:14 AM »
Even better. I don't recall that reference, so I'll be sure to take notice when I get to it in my rewatch.
Still, I don't feel the show was quite ready for it when they cast Capaldi. This time, it almost felt inevitable. We've had Michelle Gomez's fantastic portrayal of Missy over the past 3 series, we saw a white male regenerate into a black female in Hell Bent, and The Doctor's conversation with Bill in World Enough and Time felt like it was bringing it all together ready for this to eventuate. I don't know if this was their plan all along, or whether it just came together that way this time, but I think they've done a good job setting it up, and I'm confident in their casting choice.
So I'm definitely excited and interested to see what S11 brings.
The reference in the Doctor's Wife was when he talked about the Corsair (when they found the memory cubes or whatever they were called) and he mentioned that at least a couple of the Corsair's incarnations had been female.

We've also seen that time lords can change skin colour since that same season, when River Song regenerated.


I'm much more concerned with how they write the character because of the gender, rather than the gender itself. Doctor Who since it's return (and sometimes in the old show) has the habit of making the female characters the more strong, sensible ones, more streetwise - often the morale compass. The males (and certainly including the Doctors) are often socially inept, aloof, geeky and childish. If this continues we will have a perfect female Doctor and a comedy sidekick male.

To make Jodie work as the Doctor they have to be willing to give her flaws.
For me that dynamic has never been a female/male thing but a human/2000-year-old-alien thing. There's definitely scope to do something a bit different with the show and give it an exciting refresh now, but I don't see them making the Doctor any less alien and the companions any less human (whether they're male or female).

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1281 on: July 17, 2017, 04:19:48 AM »
Another good point with River Song.

I don't see the Doctor changing more than usual, but I anticipate some new and fresh reactions from other characters, especially enemies of The Doctor, or civilizations that won't listen to a female. Same character, new dynamic. They won't mess with the essence of the character, especially trying to convince audiences for the first time that a female is The Doctor. As usual, it will probably take a few episodes before the character is fully formed, and we've got a new showrunner on top of that, so I'm not going to be too critical right out of the gate. I wasn't sold on Capaldi right away either, but now he's one of my favs. Such is the Doctor Who cycle.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1282 on: July 17, 2017, 04:48:53 AM »
As usual, it will probably take a few episodes before the character is fully formed, and we've got a new showrunner on top of that, so I'm not going to be too critical right out of the gate.
Absolutely. If only Twitter was similarly rational.

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Offline soupytwist

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1283 on: July 17, 2017, 05:40:02 AM »

For me that dynamic has never been a female/male thing but a human/2000-year-old-alien thing. There's definitely scope to do something a bit different with the show and give it an exciting refresh now, but I don't see them making the Doctor any less alien and the companions any less human (whether they're male or female).

It's more the way the show has been written.  The male characters are often childish buffoons with poor social skills (The Doctor, Rory, Micky etc) and the women have generally been written as more street(or space)wise, sensible and strong.  As a dynamic it works pretty well, but if you reverse it and have a strong, sensible Doctor there isn't much need for a companion, unless they go for the male comedy sidekick.

It's not really a complaint as such.  I just hope they are able to make Jodie's Doctor still have the right quirky traits and a slightly skewed moral compass, rather than she's female therefore we can't possibly give her any negative silliness that a lot of the assistants suffered.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1284 on: July 17, 2017, 09:33:07 AM »

For me that dynamic has never been a female/male thing but a human/2000-year-old-alien thing. There's definitely scope to do something a bit different with the show and give it an exciting refresh now, but I don't see them making the Doctor any less alien and the companions any less human (whether they're male or female).

It's more the way the show has been written.  The male characters are often childish buffoons with poor social skills (The Doctor, Rory, Micky etc) and the women have generally been written as more street(or space)wise, sensible and strong.  As a dynamic it works pretty well, but if you reverse it and have a strong, sensible Doctor there isn't much need for a companion, unless they go for the male comedy sidekick.

It's not really a complaint as such.  I just hope they are able to make Jodie's Doctor still have the right quirky traits and a slightly skewed moral compass, rather than she's female therefore we can't possibly give her any negative silliness that a lot of the assistants suffered.
I'm not sure I agree with your generalisation. Rose and Amy were incredibly impulsive and not very sensible. I'd say Rory was more level-headed than Amy (albeit a classic bumbling Englishman). Donna was a total nutter. Apart from the Doctor, I don't see any particular trend in male and female characters.

I do agree with your general point though that the Doctor should still be quirky and alien.

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Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1285 on: July 17, 2017, 09:35:04 AM »
Even better. I don't recall that reference, so I'll be sure to take notice when I get to it in my rewatch.
Still, I don't feel the show was quite ready for it when they cast Capaldi. This time, it almost felt inevitable. We've had Michelle Gomez's fantastic portrayal of Missy over the past 3 series, we saw a white male regenerate into a black female in Hell Bent, and The Doctor's conversation with Bill in World Enough and Time felt like it was bringing it all together ready for this to eventuate. I don't know if this was their plan all along, or whether it just came together that way this time, but I think they've done a good job setting it up, and I'm confident in their casting choice.
So I'm definitely excited and interested to see what S11 brings.
The reference in the Doctor's Wife was when he talked about the Corsair (when they found the memory cubes or whatever they were called) and he mentioned that at least a couple of the Corsair's incarnations had been female.

We've also seen that time lords can change skin colour since that same season, when River Song regenerated.
Back to this point, I completely forgot that Moffat introduced the possibility of gender change in his very first scene as showrunner, when the newly regenerated Matt Smith initially thought he was female because he had long hair. So it will have been a full 8 years since the idea was first introduced to the Doctor actually becoming female.

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1286 on: July 18, 2017, 01:05:24 AM »
I was thinking about that one the other day, but didn't think to mention it.
I think that was as much an off the cuff joke comment about the hair as anything, although I suppose The Doctor wouldn't have said if it wasn't a real possibility. So yeah, Moffat has been setting this up for his entire run. Another thing the haters can blame Moffat for. :lol

But when are they really going to break barriers and make The Doctor a ginger? :neverusethis:
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1287 on: July 18, 2017, 01:19:05 AM »
But when are they really going to break barriers and make The Doctor a ginger? :neverusethis:

Yup. I can get behind that. Gingers have been oppressed and marginalized long enough!

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1288 on: July 18, 2017, 01:23:22 AM »
Can you imagine that fro trying to fit through the TARDIS door? :lol
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline abydos

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1289 on: July 18, 2017, 01:36:30 AM »
The jokes write themselves. This needs to happen :lol

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1290 on: July 23, 2017, 10:24:04 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCkDXegqjR0

Man, just when you think you're safe from Mark Gatiss for another year, bam, he's starring in the Christmas episode. :lol

It's hard to get a feel for what the Christmas episode is going to focus on, but we can confirm it does tie in to The Tenth Planet. It shows the station, with The Doctor delivering one of his lines, and also shows Polly (looking not particularly accurate, but it's definitely her), with The First Doctor starting his regeneration. It didn't show the Cybermen though, so I don't know if they're a major plot point or just incidental to where we are in the 1st Doctor's timeline.
I wanted some more clear confirmation of this tying into saving Gallifrey in Day of the Doctor, since it would make sense with having two Doctors there.

I'm just hoping Capaldi and Moffat get a great final episode.

Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline masterthes

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1291 on: July 24, 2017, 05:20:45 AM »
So, do you think Gatiss is going to playing the Brigadier? 

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1292 on: July 24, 2017, 05:30:02 AM »
I doubt it. It wouldn't have enough relevance to these Doctors imo, and I think they're stretching the connections to the original series as it is for the average viewer.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1293 on: July 24, 2017, 07:13:37 AM »
No it's already been confirmed that he's playing a First World War soldier.

I'm just hoping Capaldi and Moffat get a great final episode.
Obviously I hope it's good, but I'm not expecting some huge grand finale like RTD had. I seem to remember reading something about the end of S10 being the big dramatic finale for Capaldi and Moffat with the Christmas special being more a sort of coda. I guess we'll see.

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1294 on: July 24, 2017, 07:16:10 AM »
I'm not expecting anything that big either from the trailer, although we know Bill is in it, and Clara is confirmed to appear in some form too, so who knows. I just don't really know what to make of it yet.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.