Author Topic: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton  (Read 116062 times)

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1015 on: January 22, 2016, 03:31:14 PM »
Woah.

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1016 on: January 22, 2016, 03:36:57 PM »
:(

Didn't Chibnall write some episodes already? I think he wrote 42, which was good, and something else that was pretty bad.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1017 on: January 22, 2016, 03:37:43 PM »
Bit more detailed article here: https://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-01-22/doctor-who-showrunner-steven-moffat-quits-to-be-replaced-by-broadchurch-creator-chris-chibnall

Chibnall could be a great choice. His Doctor Who episodes have been good, if not particularly amazing, but he's shown with things like Broadchurch what he can do. Definite potential!

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Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1018 on: January 22, 2016, 03:41:13 PM »
:(

Didn't Chibnall write some episodes already? I think he wrote 42, which was good, and something else that was pretty bad.
None of his episodes have been bad at all, IMO they've all be solid, but they also haven't been among the best (42 probably being the strongest). But it's a little different being a guest writer as to some extent you're asked to do something, and need to fit it in with the character and story arcs being determined by someone else. It's quite different being a showrunner.

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Offline Scorpion

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1019 on: January 22, 2016, 03:44:45 PM »
True. I haven't seen Broadchurch so his DW work was the only thing that I could really say something about.
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Offline Onno

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1020 on: January 22, 2016, 03:47:29 PM »
Wow. Well, I guess Moffat would want to leave some time. Chibnall might be a great replacement though - Broadchurch is amazing!

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1021 on: January 22, 2016, 05:38:11 PM »
ONLY ONE EPISODE IN 2016? Shit, it's gonna be a tough year.

Chibnall has never been on my radar, but looking at the episodes he's written, none of them are bad. The only one I consider great is The Power of Three though. Moffat's episodes in the RTD era were already clear standouts, and I don't feel there's any one clear standout in the Moffat era aside from Moffat himself, so there's nobody who I really feel should have gotten it over Chibnall. So for now, I don't feel strongly one way or another about this. At least it's not Gatiss, amirite? :lol

I don't even want to read the comments about this on the web with everyone celebrating the best writer/showrunner of Doctor Who leaving.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1022 on: January 23, 2016, 02:52:33 AM »
Moffat's episodes in the RTD era were already clear standouts, and I don't feel there's any one clear standout in the Moffat era aside from Moffat himself
For me there are definitely non-Moffat standouts in the Moffat era, particularly the following:

Amy's Choice (Simon Nye)
Vincent and the Doctor (Richard Curtis)
The Doctor's Wife (Neil Gaiman)
The Girl Who Waited (Tom MacRae)
Hide (Neil Cross)
Kill the Moon (Peter Harness)
The Zygon Invasion/Inversion (Peter Harness)

Some of those have been inconsistent (Cross), and others are far too big/busy doing other things to be able to showrun Who (Gaiman, Curtis). Peter Harness stands out to me as the other main candidate. Potential for the future I suppose! But Chibnall I guess meets the criteria of being a huge Doctor Who fan.

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1023 on: January 23, 2016, 03:21:12 AM »
Sorry for the ambiguity, I meant no clear standout writer as Moffat was in the RTD era. I didn't mean there weren't standout episodes! Every one of Moffat's RTD era episodes was a clear standout, no duds.

Although imo Hide was pretty bad, and Kill The Moon was awful. The Zygon Invasion was solid, with the second episode with a cowriting credit by Moffat being the far better of the two. The basic idea of setting up the Zygon invasion with the two Osgoods was Moffat's idea, and I suspect the payoff with that amazing speech had his input too.
The Girl Who Waited, Amy's Choice and Vincent and the Doctor are fantastic though. :tup

If I were to choose the non Moffat standouts of the Moffat era (excluding those listed), I'd say The Power of Three (yay, Chibnall!), maybe Time Heist, Flatline, and perhaps Under The Lake / Before The Flood (S9 is so good overall)

Still, Moffat's episodes have a certain magic to them for me. His writing style really matched up with what I like from the show, and his hit rate is incredible. Moffat had a distinctive style, so I look forward to seeing how Chibnall's input changes the direction of the Doctor Who. Chibnall's only written one dud for the show (42), with the rest all being at least good, so he doesn't appear to be a bad choice.
And will Capaldi stick around after S10, or will it be a fresh start as it was with S5?
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1024 on: January 23, 2016, 07:21:22 AM »
I just finished the Krotons, which was another great story. This has been a strong season so far, probably because of the abundance of robots, which I love. :lol

This one was a classic scifi setup, it reminded me of Star Trek TOS, like The Apple. It also felt like they could have made the same episode now and have it work just as well. It was a short and sweet story that came together quite nicely.

Some quick points-
Those Kroton accents. :lol
I love bumbling 2nd Doctor, whether it was for real like when he took the teaching test, or whether he's just playing dumb to stall for time like at the end (also used to amazing effect in The Dominators)
The Doctor getting the uneducated Gonds to crank out a shitload of sulphuric acid unsupervised. :lol So much coughing and exploding.
Zoe's outfit. Dayum gurl!
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Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1025 on: January 23, 2016, 09:09:17 AM »
Zoe has some great outfits. :eyebrows:

Can't remember The Krotons all that well, but glad you dug it! And yeah, I also love the way the second Doctor plays up his bumblingness to fool people.

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1026 on: January 24, 2016, 12:15:27 AM »
I'm surprised you don't remember it for the outfit alone. :lol


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Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1027 on: January 24, 2016, 02:42:28 AM »
Oh yes. :lol

The outfit I remember most was, I think, in the Mind Robber.


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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1028 on: January 24, 2016, 02:53:00 AM »
:lol That shot certainly didn't hurt (especially as it was repeated again in the recap)
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1029 on: January 24, 2016, 02:24:11 PM »
I was really surprised about the Moffat news.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1030 on: January 26, 2016, 01:42:40 AM »
I just finished The Seeds of Death. I really liked the setup for this, with the introduction of the T-mat (which I suspect was influenced by Trek), and more interestingly, the idea of man not travelling beyond the moon despite the progression of technology, which has proven to be surprisingly correct for a story that actually predates man landing on the moon. It also reminded me of the much more recent episode, Kill The Moon. I'm not sure whether it was an intentional nod, or whether it was just coincidence due to The Seeds of Death correctly guessing the near future. There was also a character named Osgood, which again I wondered whether it was intentional or just coincidence.

I don't know how this world functions when it so quickly went to crap without the T-mat system, and there was no contingency plan. I also hope each city had more than just the one little T-mat booth! They may have explained that in the first episode and I forgot.

I actually lost a bit of interest once I saw it was the Ice Warriors, as I didn't think much of their previous encounter. The Ice Warriors are even weaker and dumber than the Cybermen. Lucky the moon base so readily had a valve that went up that high in temperature. Seems kinda dangerous to me. :lol

The deadly fungus that is killed by water.... Why was this not the first thing a cleanup crew tried? What were those guys even doing? Seriously, a mysterious foam appears, the first thing you'd try to clean it away with is water! Even with the flood level waters needed to kill it all off, they'd have noticed an effect as The Doctor did. I would have also thought that being in the vicinity of the fungus would have had more effect on people than it did since it eats up oxygen.

And how dumb do the Ice Warriors have to be to accidentally fly into the sun without noticing at some point? Even on automatic, you'd surely notice at some point.

Anyway, still an enjoyable episode. I'm really excited for The War Games!
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Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1031 on: January 26, 2016, 03:06:21 AM »
That's the problem with the Ice Warriors - great idea, pretty bad execution. :lol Gatiss (I think?) did a decent job modernising them for Cold War, but in the classic series they're just kind of annoying.

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1032 on: January 26, 2016, 05:13:34 AM »
Cold War certainly isn't one of my favourites, but they did a good job with the Ice Warrior in that one. I believe that episode also brought back the HADS as first seen in The Krotons that I just saw.

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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1033 on: January 28, 2016, 12:29:23 AM »
I just finished The War Games, which means farewell to Patrick Troughton, and farewell to black and white. Troughton's final season was a strong sendoff, as was his final story. Usually I don't like war time settings, but once it introduced the communication monitor and the mind control glasses, I was totally on board with it.

At times I found it a bit confusing differentiating the different alien races, because neither of them had their home planets named (it was merely "your home planet"), and the glasses guys didn't even have their race named. I liked finally having some backstory for The Doctor. I smiled when they finally mentioned the Time Lords by name, and gave details on The Doctor stealing a TARDIS and breaking the Time Lords' rules about interference. Patrick Troughton did a great job of portraying his fear of the Time Lords, and I liked his attempted escape sequence (full of instantly recognizable stock footage of the TARDIS from previous episodes). It was curious that they still didn't make an attempt to name his home planet.

I'm not sure if this is also the first appearance of a stock TARDIS? I liked the way they looked here, although I prefer the more modern portrayal of a cylinder as the smaller size and simpler door are a much better fit.

The little box The Doctor uses to contact the Time Lords appears to be what inspired the idea in The Doctor's Wife in series 6 of the modern show, so that was a cool nugget (obviously I'm finding out about these nuggets in reverse here :lol )

The Doctor says Time Lords can live forever barring accidents. Regeneration still wasn't a full formed concept here, so that's not surprising to hear, but still interesting.

The sendoff for the companions was a bit sad, having their memories wiped and all, but I liked the way they did it.

The whole story was overall great. I liked the idea of the different war areas and the resistance, and how it all played out. The War Chief also had sick sideburns, so bonus points on that one.

Now onto the third Doctor!
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1034 on: January 29, 2016, 12:42:01 AM »
Spearhead from Space-
The first episode of this was excellent, and the whole story was pretty good too. This really felt like a fresh start in every way. New Doctor, first in colour, no existing companions, and they've finally established the different physiology of the Doctor with his two hearts.
The production values were very good, as this one was entirely shot on film. I expect later ones won't look as good. The only downside is the sound quality noticeably dropped, as the tape cameras always picked up dialogue and noise much better than the film setups, and this crew obviously wasn't used to it.
The first appearance of the Autons was ok. The moment when they started their attack from the shop windows was a great moment of destruction, but otherwise was a bit mixed.

The new chick (companion?) is alright. Did she not notice the cable was unplugged from that device or did she actually have to fix something inside the machine too? I couldn't tell.

I'm currently indifferent on the 3rd Doctor. That's to be expected from the first story. Most Doctors take some time to grow on me. I like him enough, but he has a long way to go before he's close to the first two Doctors yet, and he hasn't showed a lot of range yet. I hope his Earth exile doesn't get too boring or stale.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1035 on: January 29, 2016, 02:52:41 AM »
At least you have Tom Baker next ! ;)

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1036 on: January 29, 2016, 03:05:47 AM »
I'm very much looking forward to that! Still a long way off though. What's the general opinion on the 3rd Doctor anyway?
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Offline Scorpion

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1037 on: January 29, 2016, 03:24:56 AM »
Pertwee is good. Not as good as Troughton or Baker, but he's a good Doctor. But his Earth exile does grew stale a little, I find his first season to be his best, at least until he leaves Earth again.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1038 on: January 29, 2016, 03:29:48 AM »
That's about what I expected. I do like Pertwee so far, but I loved Troughton, and Tom Baker is about unanimously considered the best Doctor (at least of the original series). That's a tough spot to be in.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1039 on: January 29, 2016, 10:16:12 AM »
Also, I rewatched War Games yesterday and today and it's probably Top 10 of the entire Classic Era for me, I love that story so much, especially how much time it takes to build up properly and reveal its mysteries.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1040 on: January 29, 2016, 10:26:38 AM »
I gave my thoughts on that one just a few posts up. Definitely a great one. :tup
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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1041 on: January 30, 2016, 08:55:54 PM »
Tom Baker is awesome but Troughton is my favorite.


Also The War Games has my favorite depiction of the Time Lords. They are much more ruthless and uncaring here than they are in the rest of the series.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1042 on: February 07, 2016, 10:21:52 PM »
The Silurians-
Having only seen the new series take on the Silurians so far, it was interesting to go back and see their original story. Hungry Earth / Cold Blood clearly took a lot of inspiration from this story, almost a reboot/remake in some ways. The Silurians looked ridiculous here with their loose masks with obvious seams, and I laughed every time they used the lights and waved their heads around randomly. I don't recall them bringing that aspect back luckily.
The story itself was pretty average. Nothing particularly great or memorable in it, but it was ok. Lethbridge Stewart bombing the crap out of them at the end was unexpected, and I hope the Doctor brings that back up at some point.


The Ambassadors of Death-

I liked the setup for this story, but then it was overly drawn out for the most part with a lot of back and forth, and I felt it wasn't using the potential of the radiation angle. The last two episodes brought it together though, and gave it a different and fresher spin than what I was expecting, and made for a great conclusion to an otherwise average story. It was a shame that for a story of this length, the conclusion felt so rushed. I wanted more payoff after all that had happened. Some great ideas, but very unevenly paced.

I'm already getting a bit bored of the formula of these Earth episodes, and the lack of TARDIS. I don't feel like the situation has allowed Liz to bond that well with The Doctor so far, and Pertwee's laid back style isn't doing it for me.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1043 on: February 08, 2016, 01:31:21 AM »
Hmmmmm.

I agree on The Ambassadors of Death, but I really like The Silurians. Anyway, I think that you'll really like Inferno, it's different from pretty much everything that Doctor Who has done before and/or since.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1044 on: February 08, 2016, 01:48:56 AM »
I liked The Silurians too overall, I just didn't think it was a standout story compared to others, and it had some silliness. There were lots of the elements I like from scifi/Doctor Who, but there wasn't any moment where I really loved it, hence it was middle of the road for me. But that's not a bad road to be in the middle of.

I've only just started part 3 of Inferno, where The Doctor has just disappeared with the console after trying again to make it work. Things just got interesting. :hat
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Offline ariich

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1045 on: February 08, 2016, 02:22:32 AM »
The Silurians was ok, but I agree it wasn't that exciting.

Inferno is great though, one of my favourites.

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1046 on: February 10, 2016, 11:51:06 PM »
Just finished Inferno.

I'd say this was definitely my favourite Pertwee story so far. When he first started looking around after using the TARDIS console, I thought he'd maybe travelled to the future and would see what was to come, then would go back and change it. But then BAM, parallel universe story!

Again I got a strong feeling Star Trek TOS may have had an influence here. The parallel universe full of evil counterparts, facial scars, and inverted facial hair just screamed "Mirror, Mirror", which would have been recent in people's minds. That's not a bad thing, scifi has had so many different takes on these classic ideas, and so many scifi shows have been inspired by original Trek in particular. The eye patch was a nice touch of cheese. :lol

Doctor Who has had some parallel universes episodes in the modern series, but it's been kept as a fairly difficult and rare occurrence, so this one was a pleasant surprise. I'm not sure if it's something they do again in the classic series.

Overall a really good story. I love the messing around with tech, so I was happy to finally see the TARDIS console make an appearance, and be a pivotal part of the story. It had elements of a typical Doctor Who plot, with the advanced sciencey operation, led by some a-hole leader who won't listen to reason (Fury from the Deep, anyone?), but then added the new element of the parallel universe to get around some of the limitations of being Earth bound and add some twists.
My only problem with the story was those awful and unnecessary generic werewolf monsters. What the hell was that about? Beyond their initial discovery of the goo, they didn't really deal much with the fact that there was green goo inside the earth that seemed to infect people with contagious werewolf syndrome, and it was unnecessary since it already had the danger element of DESTROYING THE ENTIRE PLANET! :lol The monsters weren't really brought up much again in terms of plot either. It was just oh shit, monsters being monstery. They didn't care much about where they came from or what they were or how stopping the drilling would also stop the monsters, because you know, Earth being destroyed and all. The story had monsters for the sake of it, they weren't the story.

I'm looking forward to starting the next season. :)

edit: Ok, I'm two minutes into the next episode and my excitement level has already ramped up to peeing my pants.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 12:02:12 AM by BlobVanDam »
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1047 on: February 11, 2016, 12:18:49 PM »
There are some really good story in the upcoming season that I think you'll dig a lot, but the first one isn't necessarily my favourite.
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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1048 on: February 11, 2016, 10:45:07 PM »
An average to decent story overall, but I enjoyed it simply for being the first appearance of The Master, plus a few other Time Lord tidbits. The ending felt very rushed. The Master can't have given any thought at all to his plan if he was swayed that easily by a comment from The Doctor. I really don't know how his plan was supposed to make sense at all. But I was happy with the introduction of another Time Lord character.

As for the Autons, I felt the tech side of the story made more sense here, but ultimately they were much better used in Spearhead From Space. There was a lot of silliness, like the ugly little doll, the carny looking guys with the big plastic heads, the plastic face hugger, the telephone cord. And why did they sound like Daleks? :lol Spearhead From Space made them scary, this made them funny.
I noticed in Inferno they'd started playing with some blue screen effects (outside of The Doctor's lab hangar thing), but in this story they were abusing it like Kirk Hammett abuses a wah pedal. They used it for a lot of backgrounds through doors even when the camera was moving, and used it for backgrounds of labs and such. The worst was using it for one shot in a kitchen! Is it that hard to find a damn kitchen to shoot in? :lol
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline masterthes

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Re: Doctor Who v. Patrick Troughton
« Reply #1049 on: February 13, 2016, 10:20:36 AM »
What did you think about Jo? It took me a while to warm up to her. She seemed so ditzy when compared to Liz