Which musical directions should DT consider, or what do you wish they will take?

[Mosh]

oh yea, I always liked the samples in DT's earlier stuff. Would be cool for them to bring that back!

[Zook]

Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.

Roars and blast beats?

[a51502112]

Go back to demoing rather than writing in the studio. I've never understood writing in an expensive studio where you may feel rushed and can't really refine the songs.

[BlobVanDam]

Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.

Roars and blast beats?

Apparently DT's entire run with MP only consisted of ANTR now..........

[a51502112]

"Standing by the windowwww... RRRAAAAAHHHWWWAAA!!!!!"

[hefdaddy42]

Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.

Roars and blast beats?

Apparently DT's entire run with MP only consisted of ANTR now..........

No, but I can't think of much else musically that they aren't doing now that they were doing during MP's tenure.  Quality, of course, is in the eye of the beholder, and I am not debating that.

[Zook]

Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.

Roars and blast beats?

Apparently DT's entire run with MP only consisted of ANTR now..........

That's the direction they were going. Had he stayed, I still think he would have pushed for even more growls and other non DT crap.

[BlobVanDam]

Whatever the hell they haven't been doing since Portnoy left.

Roars and blast beats?

Apparently DT's entire run with MP only consisted of ANTR now..........

That's the direction they were going. Had he stayed, I still think he would have pushed for even more growls and other non DT crap.

You'd think the mark of a progressive band would be incorporating new elements that weren't a part of their sound before, rather than recycling the same elements forever. They can't keep writing the same album for 20+ years. They've included a lot of new elements that weren't already a part of their sound, and made it part of their sound.
It's only "non-DT" until it's actually done, at which point it is all DT. It's arbitrary opinion to decide what elements are "DT" or "non-DT". Like it or not, MP was pushing to do something different.

I want to hear DT try different things. ADTOE had a very "been there, done that" feel to it that made it an entirely redundant album for me.

[Zook]

They weren't good ideas and they were executed very poorly on top of that. I don't even care about the blast beats, but MP trying to sound tough was laughably bad. But I'll tell you what, if they can pull it off without sounded corny as fuck, I'd take the "growls" over disco music anyday.

[BlobVanDam]

Well that’s just like your opinion, man.

[Kotowboy]

I want to hear DT try different things. ADTOE had a very "been there, done that" feel to it that made it an entirely redundant album for me.

For me - they went back to sounding like DT after two albums of being a RoadRunner metal band.

[RoeDent]

"Standing by the windowwww... RRRAAAAAHHHWWWAAA!!!!!"

  

Also, I agree with the above post. ADTOE was, and still is, a breath of fresh air after the sometimes overpowering darkness of SC and BC&SL.

[Mosh]

I agree that ADTOE was a been there done that mood, but I think that was intentional. They were going back to a basic prog style to use as a springboard for another direction, which they've pursued in DT12. The next album will probably be another continuation of that. It makes sense after heading down a direction (SC/BC&SL) that they were probably no longer satisfied with.

[TheGreatPretender]

Considering how many times they themselves stated that it WAS intentional, I really don't see why people think it was because of a lack of creativity. And honestly, there was a lot on ADTOE that I thought was new grounds for them. New types of sounds, things like that, so I wouldn't even say it was as "close to home" as I expected.

[Lucien]

I just hope they don't continue down that same path for another album, as many others have stated.

[Kotowboy]

ADTOE was the " don't worry - we're still Dream Theater " album.

DT12 was "Mike Mangini is a fully fledged member of the band" album.

DT13 needs to be the " we're a finely oiled machine. Mangini is well and truly a member of this band and now it's time to get crazy " album.

[Rodni Demental]

That's the direction they were going. Had he stayed, I still think he would have pushed for even more growls and other non DT crap.

Sorry to pick on your statement, but I think what you said there might almost represent the very mentality that's causing fans and the band to be stuck "inside the box". Expectations from the fans and preconceptions from the band. Pushing for 'non DT stuff' is a way to try something new. And it's not like it completely changes the DT sound when they try things that they haven't done before, it'll still have that DT familiarity but it'll be DT meets <new idea> like it has been the other times they've tried something new and integrated it into a familiar DT sound. And I emphasis, not as a deliberate preconception of what the DT sound is so that it'll have that familiarity, I'm saying that familiarity will exist regardless because it's the same musicians playing and the same musicians composing.

[TheGreatPretender]

ADTOE was the " don't worry - we're still Dream Theater " album.

DT12 was "Mike Mangini is a fully fledged member of the band" album.

DT13 needs to be the " we're a finely oiled machine. Mangini is well and truly a member of this band and now it's time to get crazy " album.

I would love an "It's time to get crazy" album, but I won't be holding my breath.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I feel like that's what people were saying in advance of DT12. I honestly don't think they're going do an album where they "get crazy". And I guess that's alright, I still enjoy their music.

[Zook]

That's the direction they were going. Had he stayed, I still think he would have pushed for even more growls and other non DT crap.

Sorry to pick on your statement, but I think what you said there might almost represent the very mentality of fans and the band being stuck "inside the box". Expectations from the fans and preconceptions from the band. Pushing for 'non DT stuff' is a way to try something new. And it's not like it completely changes the DT sound when they try things that they haven't done before, it'll still have that DT familiarity but it'll be DT meets <new idea> like it has been the other times they've tried something new and integrated it into a familiar DT sound. And I emphasis,  not as deliberate preconception of what the DT sound is so that it'll have that familiarity, I'm saying that familiarity will exist regardless because it's the same musicians playing and the same musicians composing.

I'm all for trying new things. I guess what I should have said was MP was trying way too hard, and the results were poor.

[Rodni Demental]

Haha fair enough. I suppose that's a matter of taste though. I don't mind that he was pushing the envelope even if not all of his ideas were my cup of tea.

[Mosh]

I don't think ADTOE lacked creativity necessarily, they just weren't really trying anything that new. Sure there were some new sounds and stuff, but they weren't really covering any new songwriting or even production ground. They played it safe on almost every level. Which is understandable. The problem is that because of that, I have a hard time going back to it. Pretty much every other album shows DT treading new ground in some form or another, for better or for worse. And that's what I like about them, and I go back to their albums very often because of that. Even the weaker ones.

[Miss Bangkok]

I want to hear DT try different things. ADTOE had a very "been there, done that" feel to it that made it an entirely redundant album for me.

For me - they went back to sounding like DT after two albums of being a RoadRunner metal band.

Exactly this. A Dramatic Turn of Events was in many ways, a return to form. It's more reminiscent of old-school DT than the past three albums with Portnoy.

They weren't good ideas and they were executed very poorly on top of that. I don't even care about the blast beats, but MP trying to sound tough was laughably bad. But I'll tell you what, if they can pull it off without sounded corny as fuck, I'd take the "growls" over disco music anyday.

I don't mind the blast beats, and I'm glad Portnoy finally tried something new with his drumming, but yeah, that "growl" section in A Nightmare to Remember was just a downright horrible idea, and that was a decision that should've been vetoed by the others, without a doubt. That entire section ruins an otherwise perfectly good song. Also, let's not forget all the other influences MP had towards the end; the Muse "look-a-like" songs, mainly. I think he meant well, but I think he took his eye off the ball somehow. Why the fuck would you want to sound like a newer band anyway? I mean, you're fucking Dream Theater---the one and only. Who gives a shit what other bands are up to; and if you are influenced by them, at least try to keep from writing entire songs that sound like they came straight off an album by said influence.

[Mosh]

Why the fuck would you want to sound like a newer band anyway? I mean, you're fucking Dream Theater---the one and only. Who gives a shit what other bands are up to

Tell that to JP, he was influenced by Periphery on DT12. It's good that DT try to keep up with their contemporaries, they've always been that way; just check out their inspiration corners from albums like Six Degrees, this isn't something that started and ended with MP. I'd like that they're aware of what newer bands are doing, I'd rather them not be stuck in the 90s.

[RaiseTheKnife]

James mentions in several interviews that it was important to stay "relevant" with DT12, so there's that . . .

[King Postwhore]

Bands with longevity always get influenced by the times.  It's that simple.

[GasparXR]

Why the fuck would you want to sound like a newer band anyway? I mean, you're fucking Dream Theater---the one and only. Who gives a shit what other bands are up to

Tell that to JP, he was influenced by Periphery on DT12. It's good that DT try to keep up with their contemporaries, they've always been that way; just check out their inspiration corners from albums like Six Degrees, this isn't something that started and ended with MP. I'd like that they're aware of what newer bands are doing, I'd rather them not be stuck in the 90s.

Yeah, I can kind of hear some elements of more modern prog metal in bits on this album. Mainly in False Awakening Suite, The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, and Illumination Theory, in the guitar parts. He utilizes that style well, as I expect he would with pretty much any style of playing.

[Mosh]

And I think it has reinvigorated his riff writing talents. The last three albums (ADTOE included) had some really forgettable riffs imo. I love the riffs on DT12 though.

[BlobVanDam]

And I think it has reinvigorated his riff writing talents. The last three albums (ADTOE included) had some really forgettable riffs imo. I love the riffs on DT12 though.

I agree that ADTOE has some forgettable riffs, although I mostly feel the same about DT12. DT12 does have more good riffs than ADTOE, especially in IT (that 12/8 one is killer, and the first verse one is great too). Can't think of many others from the album though.
While those albums are still guitar heavy, I don't think they're as riff focused in the songwriting as the later MP albums were. They're not as metal oriented in style, so I think it's an intentional shift in songwriting.

Because of that, I think BCASL and SC were much better for riffs. SC in particular had plenty of memorable riffs across the album.

But JP doesn't have a bad album. Every album is going to have some cool new riffs and at least a couple of killer solos.

[Mosh]

And I think it has reinvigorated his riff writing talents. The last three albums (ADTOE included) had some really forgettable riffs imo. I love the riffs on DT12 though.

I agree that ADTOE has some forgettable riffs, although I mostly feel the same about DT12. DT12 does have more good riffs than ADTOE, especially in IT (that 12/8 one is killer, and the first verse one is great too). Can't think of many others from the album though.
While those albums are still guitar heavy, I don't think they're as riff focused in the songwriting as the later MP albums were. They're not as metal oriented in style, so I think it's an intentional shift in songwriting.

Because of that, I think BCASL and SC were much better for riffs. SC in particular had plenty of memorable riffs across the album.

But JP doesn't have a bad album. Every album is going to have some cool new riffs and at least a couple of killer solos.

I like all the riffs in IT, they really hit it out of the park with that one, it rivals TGP for best riffs really. But I also like the riffs on The Enemy Inside (although I hated the riffs when I first heard it, seeing it live really helped me appreciate them more..it's explosive life  ), The Looking Glass has a cool riff, and I really love the riffs on Enigma Machine, especially the main one. There's a lot of syncopation on DT12, which I really like. I get what you mean about the songs not being as riff focused, but I like that and I think it actually makes the riffs come out better.

BC&SL and SC have some great riffs, but some really bad ones too. I love the opening riff on Nightmare, the main riff on AROP (only salvageable part in the song IMO), and some stellar riffs on TCOT as well. Not much else sticks out to me, besides TSF but the best riffs on that are from TGP and This Dying Soul. There are better riffs on SC but unfortunately the songs as a whole are much weaker IMO. Which is what puts DT12 ahead here, it has great riffs and great songs I think. A lot of things felt arbitrary on BC&SL and (especially) SC, including the riffs, but on DT12 they seem much more natural and add more to the songs.

[Dellers]

I just wish that they'll go in a completely different direction than what they did on DT12. It seems very Rush-like, and for someone who doesn't like Rush at all I can't say that I dig the album.
I think they should go for more variation next time, and unlike ADTOE I thought DT12 sounded the same all the way through. The sound and production didn't help make the songs stand out from each other either.

[KevShmev]

Except for The Looking Glass, how is DT12 Rush-like?  I can't think of any Rush song that sounds anything like The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil or Illumination Theory, for example. 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

It's been a while since I listened to the album, but I remember being reminded of Rush on several songs.

Though overall it didn't really sounds like a Rush album to me.

[rumborak]

Except for The Looking Glass, how is DT12 Rush-like?  I can't think of any Rush song that sounds anything like The Enemy Inside, Enigma Machine, The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil or Illumination Theory, for example.

Dude, Kev, how many times are we gonna have this discussion? I think at this point you should have at least acknowledged that a lot of people see the beginning of Surrender To Reason to be 100% Rush.

[KevShmev]

So, the first 15 and last 25 seconds of a song that is 6:35, sounding a little like Rush, makes it Rush-like?  Really?