Author Topic: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!  (Read 9533 times)

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Offline chaossystem

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2014, 03:47:20 PM »
OK.  If you are going to address someone who wasn't directly above you, it might be better to address them by name or to quote what they said.

But even so, why the reaction to his post?
[/quote]

Because I was hoping to get a reaction to some of my other ideas, even a negative one, instead of just poo-pooing or rejecting the idea of "M#3."

Personally I'm pretty much 50/50 on the idea. Maybe it's a good one, maybe not.

However, I was on some website-it might even have been DT's official-a while before "12" came out, and someone issued a challenge for people to come up with cover art and an imaginary track listing for the new album. There was some good stuff in there. Anyway at least ONE of the participants included "Metropolis pt. 3" as one of the proposed songs, and some of the people on this thread seem to be strongly supporting the idea as well. So it DOES seem to be something that at least SOME people want.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2014, 03:56:09 PM »
You know, the more I see your broken quotes and the way you post, it seems as though you just want attention whether it's negative or positive.
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2014, 03:56:35 PM »
Personally, I wouldn't want Metropolis Part 3, but I am pretty sure that there are a hell of a lot of people out there who would.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2014, 03:58:51 PM »
You know, the more I see your broken quotes and the way you post, it seems as though you just want attention whether it's negative or positive.
This is how you quote.


You hit the "Quote" button.  Then, anything you want to type, you type after the final "[/quote]".  Then you hit the "Post" button.
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Offline Randaran

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2014, 04:01:13 PM »
From the look of chaos' post, it looks like he was trying to remove part of the quote, but removed the opening tag by accident.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2014, 04:02:13 PM »
From the look of chaos' post, it looks like he was trying to remove part of the quote, but removed the opening tag by accident.
Hmm.

OK, don't do that.
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Offline Octavarious

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2014, 04:23:47 PM »
What do you mean exactly as concept album?
To be really precise, they NEVER did a real concept album, in fact:
SFAM is not at all, is a rock opera instead;
SDOIT disc 2 is a suite, which if left alone would have been a concept album, or sort of (usually CA are not one single suite), but then we have disc 1 which has nothing to do with disc 2, then no.
Octavarium is a concept only in musical terms, but the concept in terms of lyrics is simply non existing.
So if you are referring to a first-time-ever concept album, as they already covered extensively mental disorder, which is very intriguing although not new, there are some ideas they could work on, eg being # 13 an album with songs inspired by premium horror/therror stories (various writers, one novel for each song), but it's not us deciding on this, guess JP drives the whole thing, as always.
Same if you mean sonething like SFAM, so not a CA but a Rock Opera (I already covered this in another topic). This would really depend on JP inspiration by reading a book or watching a movie which sould inspire him... Something about science-fiction would be cool. And what about Kafka? Inventing from scratch is a huge risk...
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2014, 04:28:24 PM »
Same if you mean sonething like SFAM, so not a CA but a Rock Opera (I already covered this in another topic). This would really depend on JP inspiration by reading a book or watching a movie which sould inspire him... Something about science-fiction would be cool. And what about Kafka? Inventing from scratch is a huge risk...

Regardless of semantics, having an album that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by concept album. Whether this is correct or not, it's a safe bet that that's what is meant.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2014, 04:32:03 PM »
"A concept album is a studio album where all musical or lyrical ideas contribute to a single overall theme or unified story."

That's from wikipedia and it's as good a definition as any.  SFAM is most definitely a concept album.
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Offline Zook

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2014, 04:34:52 PM »
"A concept album is a studio album where all musical or lyrical ideas contribute to a single overall theme or unified story."

That's from wikipedia and it's as good a definition as any.  SFAM is most definitely a concept album.

As is Octavarium. :neverusethis:

Offline chaossystem

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2014, 04:39:07 PM »
What do you mean exactly as concept album?
To be really precise, they NEVER did a real concept album, in fact:
SFAM is not at all, is a rock opera instead;
SDOIT disc 2 is a suite, which if left alone would have been a concept album, or sort of (usually CA are not one single suite), but then we have disc 1 which has nothing to do with disc 2, then no.
Octavarium is a concept only in musical terms, but the concept in terms of lyrics is simply non existing.
So if you are referring to a first-time-ever concept album, as they already covered extensively mental disorder, which is very intriguing although not new, there are some ideas they could work on, eg being # 13 an album with songs inspired by premium horror/therror stories (various writers, one novel for each song), but it's not us deciding on this, guess JP drives the whole thing, as always.
Same if you mean sonething like SFAM, so not a CA but a Rock Opera (I already covered this in another topic). This would really depend on JP inspiration by reading a book or watching a movie which sould inspire him... Something about science-fiction would be cool. And what about Kafka? Inventing from scratch is a huge risk...

Your post is a little confusing, but I think the GIST of what you're saying is that A CONCEPT album and an album that tells a story are two different things. But it looks like the definition of "concept album" has been broadened to INCLUDE a cohesive story line as well.

So maybe when I said "let's do an album with a theme instead of a concept" I was contradicting myself.

Oh well.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2014, 04:40:42 PM »
Your post is a little confusing
:lol

Sorry.  I need a nap.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2014, 04:45:36 PM »
This is how you quote.


You hit the "Quote" button.  Then, anything you want to type, you type after the final "[/ quote]".  Then you hit the "Post" button.

The part I never understood in this is, when you the Post button, the next thing you see on the screen is your own post. How can you possibly miss that it's scrwed up?!
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2014, 04:48:32 PM »
"A concept album is a studio album where all musical or lyrical ideas contribute to a single overall theme or unified story."

That's from wikipedia and it's as good a definition as any.  SFAM is most definitely a concept album.

As is Octavarium. :neverusethis:

As is ADTOE.... According to JP.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2014, 04:53:35 PM »
The next Metallica is a concept album as they're struggling with the whole "concept" of an "album".

Offline Octavarious

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2014, 05:04:52 PM »
Same if you mean sonething like SFAM, so not a CA but a Rock Opera (I already covered this in another topic). This would really depend on JP inspiration by reading a book or watching a movie which sould inspire him... Something about science-fiction would be cool. And what about Kafka? Inventing from scratch is a huge risk...

Regardless of semantics, having an album that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by concept album. Whether this is correct or not, it's a safe bet that that's what is meant.
Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera. In the 70s we had a clear vision about the HUGE difference between the 2 things, eg Wish you Were Here vs The Wall.
For what I always knew in my life since a teenager having an albun that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by Rock Opera. Other examples? Tommy, Quadrophenia, the Lamb Lies down on Broadway, enough?
Finally, if your definition is correct, instead, where is the single plot in 8VM? And in ADTOE?
For what I understand, sounds like the definition of Rock Opera is not cool anymore, and the concept album in now an overarching term that includes everything that is NOT a mere collection of songs.
If so, it's definitely WRONG, no matter what wikipedia or whoever claims, because it's putting together apples and oranges (to stay on a PF line ;D ).
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2014, 05:07:11 PM »
Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera. In the 70s we had a clear vision about the HUGE difference between the 2 things, eg Wish you Were Here vs The Wall.
For what I always knew in my life since a teenager having an albun that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by Rock Opera. Other examples? Tommy, Quadrophenia, the Lamb Lies down on Broadway, enough?
Finally, if your definition is correct, instead, where is the single plot in 8VM? And in ADTOE?
For what I understand, sounds like the definition of Rock Opera is not cool anymore, and the concept album in now an overarching term that includes everything that is NOT a mere collection of songs.
If so, it's definitely WRONG, no matter what wikipedia or whoever claims, because it's putting together apples and oranges (to stay on a PF line ;D ).
PS
 Sorry if sometimes I don't seem 100% clear, I' m not native English speaker, pls bear with me (like I do with you when you write some never-heard idioms or acronysm etc).

Okay, well, what if we're not talking about Rock or Metal? What if there's a Pop or Jazz or Country album that has a storyline? You can't really call them "Rock" operas. Would they then be Country Opera, Jazz Opera, Pop Opera (Popera?)?

I'd say if anything, a Rock Opera is one possible sub-classification of a concept album.
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Offline SeRoX

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2014, 05:15:25 PM »
myth would be awesome. Maybe a story of Greek Gods.
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Offline chaossystem

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2014, 05:16:43 PM »
Can we just get back to talking about what we would want our concept to be...?...

...Didn't think so.

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2014, 05:17:47 PM »
Can we just get back to talking about what we would want our concept to be...?...

...Didn't think so.

So what are everyone's thoughts on DT12 a year later ?

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2014, 05:18:31 PM »
myth would be awesome. Maybe a story of Greek Gods.

Why would JP write an autobiographical album?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2014, 05:32:13 PM »
Same if you mean sonething like SFAM, so not a CA but a Rock Opera (I already covered this in another topic). This would really depend on JP inspiration by reading a book or watching a movie which sould inspire him... Something about science-fiction would be cool. And what about Kafka? Inventing from scratch is a huge risk...

Regardless of semantics, having an album that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by concept album. Whether this is correct or not, it's a safe bet that that's what is meant.
Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera. In the 70s we had a clear vision about the HUGE difference between the 2 things, eg Wish you Were Here vs The Wall.
For what I always knew in my life since a teenager having an albun that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by Rock Opera. Other examples? Tommy, Quadrophenia, the Lamb Lies down on Broadway, enough?
Finally, if your definition is correct, instead, where is the single plot in 8VM? And in ADTOE?
For what I understand, sounds like the definition of Rock Opera is not cool anymore, and the concept album in now an overarching term that includes everything that is NOT a mere collection of songs.
If so, it's definitely WRONG, no matter what wikipedia or whoever claims, because it's putting together apples and oranges (to stay on a PF line ;D ).
PS
 Sorry if sometimes I don't seem 100% clear, I' m not native English speaker, pls bear with me (like I do with you when you write some never-heard idioms or acronysm etc).

Although there are subtle differences, for most intents and purposes, consider "concept album" and "rock opera" to be synonymous.  Dream Theater has one and only one concept album:  SFAM.  It can be argued that they have several albums that contain running themes or concepts, such as Octavarium, for example.  But that is not up for debate here.  It has been done in other threads and is fully explained in the forum FAQ and definitions threat.  Please read those if you have any questions, but please do NOT continue to take this thread off topic with that debate.  This is not the place for it.  Thanks.
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Offline Another_Won

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2014, 05:32:25 PM »
Can we just get back to talking about what we would want our concept to be...?...

...Didn't think so.

So what are everyone's thoughts on DT12 a year later ?

I thought I read that somewhere that Awake was a concept album.

Offline Octavarious

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2014, 05:33:48 PM »
Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera. In the 70s we had a clear vision about the HUGE difference between the 2 things, eg Wish you Were Here vs The Wall.
For what I always knew in my life since a teenager having an albun that follows a single plot is what's usually meant by Rock Opera. Other examples? Tommy, Quadrophenia, the Lamb Lies down on Broadway, enough?
Finally, if your definition is correct, instead, where is the single plot in 8VM? And in ADTOE?
For what I understand, sounds like the definition of Rock Opera is not cool anymore, and the concept album in now an overarching term that includes everything that is NOT a mere collection of songs.
If so, it's definitely WRONG, no matter what wikipedia or whoever claims, because it's putting together apples and oranges (to stay on a PF line ;D ).
PS
 Sorry if sometimes I don't seem 100% clear, I' m not native English speaker, pls bear with me (like I do with you when you write some never-heard idioms or acronysm etc).

Okay, well, what if we're not talking about Rock or Metal? What if there's a Pop or Jazz or Country album that has a storyline? You can't really call them "Rock" operas. Would they then be Country Opera, Jazz Opera, Pop Opera (Popera?)?

I'd say if anything, a Rock Opera is one possible sub-classification of a concept album.
Interesting. But I cannot remember anything like that, none of these has ever produced anything with a single story-line. Well, pop is such a broad definition that you could put almost anything under it, even any BW or WE musical. In that case, yes, say Phantom of the Opera is Popopera :lol
RO as sub-category of CA? Mmmhhhh, not sure, could be... In my view they are 2 different things, but this may be me, you know, I see the "SFAM is a concept album" statement like a diminishing, rock opera is much more than concept album. Maybe is this something to do with where I come from? ;D

Still, maybe my bad English comprehension  (which Im trying to improve with these few weeks I'm spending in the London area), but I haven't got it yet 100%: the topic is about songs just connected by a theme, or single-line plot lyrics  instead (for that famous future DT release)? Or both?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2014, 05:34:22 PM »
Further off topic posts will begin receiving warnings/bans.  Thanks.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2014, 05:37:12 PM »
Further off topic posts will begin receiving warnings/bans.  Thanks.


How about a concept album where none of the songs are related thematically lyrically or musically ?


Offline rumborak

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2014, 05:41:55 PM »
OK, my concept album would be: A guy travels back in time, and the different songs are in the style of the different eras. I think it would be really cool to hear what DT would do to a baroque song, or a jazz tune, or a 70s hippie song!
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Offline Octavarious

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2014, 05:43:46 PM »
Further off topic posts will begin receiving warnings/bans.  Thanks.
Ok. sorry, so your post too late.
Still, my last question about the aim of this topic is 100% in topic, and clarifying it would help all.
bosk1 with your reply to my post, do I understand well that here we have all to agree that the author of the topic was asking about a single-story line album, like SFAM?
If so, many here, starting with me, would have to change their reply...
mmmhhh... indeed Kafka's Castle would be something good...
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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2014, 05:49:16 PM »
OK, my concept album would be: A guy travels back in time, and the different songs are in the style of the different eras. I think it would be really cool to hear what DT would do to a baroque song, or a jazz tune, or a 70s hippie song!

One song that lasts the entirety of a CD.


Offline chaossystem

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2014, 07:39:06 PM »


Although there are subtle differences, for most intents and purposes, consider "concept album" and "rock opera" to be synonymous.  Dream Theater has one and only one concept album:  SFAM.  It can be argued that they have several albums that contain running themes or concepts, such as Octavarium, for example.  But that is not up for debate here.  It has been done in other threads and is fully explained in the forum FAQ and definitions threat.  Please read those if you have any questions, but please do NOT continue to take this thread off topic with that debate.  This is not the place for it.  Thanks.
[/quote]

I'm glad you said that. The Who's "Tommy" would be a good example of that, because I always remember it being called a "rock opera" but it is still very much a concept album, because of the story.

The changing terminology also reminds of how PROGRESSIVE rock used to be called "art-rock."
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2014, 07:43:09 PM »
OK, my concept album would be: A guy travels back in time, and the different songs are in the style of the different eras. I think it would be really cool to hear what DT would do to a baroque song, or a jazz tune, or a 70s hippie song!
This would actually be really cool. By any band really. Concept albums are so stale these days, lyrically. I can't think of a modern concept album with a concept that really grabbed me the way the older ones did, but something like this certainly could.
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Offline chaossystem

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2014, 08:02:39 PM »
An exploration of the history of music ITSELF.

Brilliant!

And I think they would do it better than most.

Need I say why?
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Offline Knguro

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2014, 11:36:00 PM »
OK, my concept album would be: A guy travels back in time, and the different songs are in the style of the different eras. I think it would be really cool to hear what DT would do to a baroque song, or a jazz tune, or a 70s hippie song!

That sounds amazing! I recall asking Jordan what are his thoughts about Latin Jazz, he told me that for him is a very comlex and amazing genre, and if he could have a year off just to go through it and learn it properly he would definitely do it! I imagine that fiting somewhere in this concept album you suggest, something like In The Name of God but with a well defined Latin jazz groove during the instrumental section.
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2014, 01:19:33 AM »
Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera.

Rock opera is where the lyrics consist entirely of dialogue, much like classical opera. The singers assume the roles of characters and act out the story through their music and voices.

Concept album is simply songs with a linked theme.

Offline Octavarious

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Re: Unleash your ideas for a CONCEPT ALBUM!
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2014, 02:40:27 AM »
Ok, now please explain me the difference between concept album and rock opera.

Rock opera is where the lyrics consist entirely of dialogue, much like classical opera. The singers assume the roles of characters and act out the story through their music and voices.

Concept album is simply songs with a linked theme.
Agree 90%. Wouldn't say "entirely" as there is always self-reflection (no real dialogue) or narration of events.
Coming back to the topic, would it be better to take the theme from an existing story (book, movie), as I believe, or do you think JP could  take the risk to invent from scratch a whole story?
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