James LaBrie Interview with Lady Obscure, July 31, 2014 - Part 2 up, Page 3!!!!

[Skeever]

Lots of people quick to point out that me not thinking Dark Master is emotional is, well, just my opinion, dude.

Sure. I have no problem believing that some people feel emotion when listening to it, but when you are writing about dungeons and dragons, naturally less people are going to relate. I think it goes without saying, JP knows this, because he hasn't tried to do another album of fantasy lyrics since.

[TheGreatPretender]

I think it goes without saying, JP knows this, because he hasn't tried to do another album of fantasy lyrics since.

Umm, I don't see how. We've only had 3 albums since. It's not like he was doing fantasy lyrics on every other album before that. I'm sure if he feels like busting out some fantasy lyrics in the future, he's not going to decide against it in fears that people will complain that it's unemotional.

And again, who cares if people "relate" to the lyrics? You don't have to relate to the lyrics to appreciate them. Look at Metropolis, those are some really beautiful lyrics, but the way it's written, it's not very B-line in terms of what it's about, so it's pretty hard to relate to. If the song is well written, it will get people excited. DTEN is an exciting and fun song, and excitement is a type of emotion too. I don't have to shed a tear or contemplate the world in every single song.

[Skeever]

It matters to me.

I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Anyway, to each is own. Like I said, DT are a top band for me, but I definitely feel some of their stuff just isn't very emotional. Not sure what you  don't get so instead of me just posting the same thing over again, I'll say agree to disagree.... lol

[TheGreatPretender]

It matters to me.

I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Anyway, to each is own. Like I said, DT are a top band for me, but I definitely feel some of their stuff just isn't very emotional. Not sure what you  don't get so instead of me just posting the same thing over again, I'll say agree to disagree.... lol

But you never did address my earlier question. Do you really need to emotionally connect to EVERY single song? I understand if it's supposed to be an emotional song, and you can't connect to it. But what if the song just wasn't meant to be emotional at all?

[King Postwhore]

I will say that the album did not connect for me.   I would say melodically it did not connect.

[Mosh]

It matters to me.

I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Anyway, to each is own. Like I said, DT are a top band for me, but I definitely feel some of their stuff just isn't very emotional. Not sure what you  don't get so instead of me just posting the same thing over again, I'll say agree to disagree.... lol

But what if the song just wasn't meant to be emotional at all?

Then it's no good. A well written song, in any genre, is going to evoke at least some emotion. Be it a basic emotion such as happiness, sadness, excitement, etc. or a more complex one. If I listen to a song and feel nothing, then it's not a good song. 

[TheGreatPretender]

Then it's no good. A well written song, in any genre, is going to evoke at least some emotion. Be it a basic emotion such as happiness, sadness, excitement, etc. or a more complex one. If I listen to a song and feel nothing, then it's not a good song.

Yeah, but if you're broadening the concept of what an "Emotional" song is, to excited, to pumped, then you can even say that the sheer aspect of sparking a person's imagination, or provoking deep thought would count as making them feel something. And even TDEN and DT's more technical songs are good at that. Heck, they spark more imagination than most bands out there.

[Skeever]

It matters to me.

I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Anyway, to each is own. Like I said, DT are a top band for me, but I definitely feel some of their stuff just isn't very emotional. Not sure what you  don't get so instead of me just posting the same thing over again, I'll say agree to disagree.... lol

But you never did address my earlier question. Do you really need to emotionally connect to EVERY single song? I understand if it's supposed to be an emotional song, and you can't connect to it. But what if the song just wasn't meant to be emotional at all?

If it's not supposed to be a relatable song, and is just supposed to get my emotions going by virtue of the melody or something, sure, that's fine. But I should be feeling something.

In the case of Dark Master, though, the lyrics are sooooo unrelatable to me that I find them distracting quite honestly, and it's difficult to really get anything out of the other parts of the song when my main thought is, "can I just listen to this without words?"

[bosk1]

Bummer you don't connect with the song.  I personally think there is a lot there to connect with.  But to each his own.

[TheGreatPretender]

But based on all that, it just brings back the point about what JLB said. If people think they're unemotional, then they just don't get it. That doesn't actually mean that DT doesn't write emotional songs.

I mean, you can't connect to Dark Master because of the lyrics, but what about other bands with fictional lyrics? Are you saying that Blind Guardian and other bands of the sort evoke no emotion from you at all, just because they have fantasy lyrics?

[bosk1]

That reminds me, I need to listen to Systematic Chaos.  brb...

[Mosh]

I appreciated the lyrics to ITPOE a lot more after thinking about the subject beyond the fantasy bits. The whole internal struggles thing, a topic that JP has covered (much more successfully) quite a few times, but I think he does a good job with it. And it's cool seeing him take a different approach to a topic he's written about before. Some of the lyrics are pretty goofy and I'm still not a fan of the fantasy themes on that album in general, but I definitely appreciate it a lot more and some of it really resonates with me. Especially the "I will not fight for you" bit at the end. JLB really nailed that line too. So much better than the other JP lyrics on this album, especially Forsaken (which is a good example of a song that I have no emotional connection too, lyrically or musically).

It's still my least favorite epic by a long shot, but still one of SC's better moments with some really stellar parts among all the clutter.

[RaiseTheKnife]

John Petrucci is a story teller in many capacities, and I like it when he stretches out with his imagination in the fantasy genre. This dates back to WDADU.  "Lowered deep into the sea. A Being awaits to cleanse his soul . . ."  and so forth.

[TheGreatPretender]

John Petrucci is a story teller in many capacities, and I like it when he stretches out with his imagination in the fantasy genre. This dates back to WDADU.  "Lowered deep into the sea. A Being awaits to cleanse his soul . . ."  and so forth.

Exactly. And it's not like he does it too often anyway. Not enough if you ask me. Personally, I just pretend like the lyrics to LNF and Outcry are fantasy.

[obscure]

That was a fun interview!

The smiles on both yours and James' faces for the still is quite infectious and genuine. Warms my little heart. 

Thank you   

[hefdaddy42]

I mean, you can't connect to Dark Master because of the lyrics, but what about other bands with fictional lyrics? Are you saying that Blind Guardian and other bands of the sort evoke no emotion from you at all, just because they have fantasy lyrics?

For me, bands like that don't work because that seems to be all they do.  There's no depth, so there is nothing to relate to as a band. 

But that's just me.

[Mosh]

Yea. Doesn't Blind Guardian write every single one of their songs about Lord Of the Rings? I imagine that shtick getting old very quickly. That would be fine if BG wrote music I actually like, but I can't stand power metal musically. There's some stuff here and there I like but by and large it's annoying as hell.

[Evermind]

Curiously enough, they don't. Especially on A Night on the Opera.

But I kinda can see your point.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, I've tried Blind Guardian a couple of times, but power metal doesn't do it for me.  Plus, I haven't played Dungeons & Dragons in 30 years.

[TheGreatPretender]

Okay, what about Iron Maiden doing songs based on film and literature? Are you gonna tell me that Brave New World has no emotion, just because it's based on a book?

[Mosh]

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. BG doesn't do anything for me because of the music more than anything else. I don't care for the lyrics either, but if I had any emotional connection to the music, I wouldn't care how bad the lyrics are.

Also, if any band does an amazing job at basing songs on movies and literature (and doing so with great emotion), it's Iron Maiden.

[TheGreatPretender]

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. BG doesn't do anything for me because of the music more than anything else. I don't care for the lyrics either, but if I had any emotional connection to the music, I wouldn't care how bad the lyrics are.

Also, if any band does an amazing job at basing songs on movies and literature (and doing so with great emotion), it's Iron Maiden.

I'm just alluding back to the whole argument that songs like Forsaken and TDEN are "incapable of evoking emotion" because of their fictional lyrics, and how it makes the audience less likely to connect with them.

[Mosh]

I like TDEN but as far as Forsaken goes, the awfulness of the song goes way beyond the lyrics. The music evokes no emotion from me either. It sounds so bland and uninspired. The fictional lyrics aren't the problem, but rather the icing on an already bland tasting cake. If there was something in the lyrics I could latch on to, that would at least make it a little better, but if anything the lyrics just make it worse.

Also, I don't have a problem with all fictional lyrics. I can think of plenty of songs by other bands that use fictional lyrics and successfully evoke an emotion from me. I simply think DT isn't very good at it.

[TheGreatPretender]

I like TDEN but as far as Forsaken goes, the awfulness of the song goes way beyond the lyrics. The music evokes no emotion from me either. It sounds so bland and uninspired. The fictional lyrics aren't the problem, but rather the icing on an already bland tasting cake. If there was something in the lyrics I could latch on to, that would at least make it a little better, but if anything the lyrics just make it worse.

Also, I don't have a problem with all fictional lyrics. I can think of plenty of songs by other bands that use fictional lyrics and successfully evoke an emotion from me. I simply think DT isn't very good at it.

First of all, Forsaken is awesome!

Second I wasn't speaking only to you. I was referring to Skeever's comment on fictional lyrics more than anything.

All I'm saying is that there's nothing about DT that's inherently unemotional. It's one thing to say, "I don't connect to this particular song." It's another to say, "It's because the lyrics are fictional," or "Because they're too technical" or some other excuse that can also be applied to a ton of other bands that don't get the same criticism.

[Scorpion]

I don't see your problem, TGP. I mean, if I don't connect with a song, then of course I will try to articulate my reason for this in words, and that might lead me to making statements like "It's too technical" - because of the inherent subjectivity of music, I always read statements like that as a short-hand for "I do not connect to the song because, for my tastes, it is too technical" - what else can it mean? It's not like there is an objective standard as to how technical a song may be before being deemed "too technical".

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

we need to bring back the objective/subjective thread

[Scorpion]

I don't see the need. We wind up discussing it in every thread anyway.

[Mosh]

I like TDEN but as far as Forsaken goes, the awfulness of the song goes way beyond the lyrics. The music evokes no emotion from me either. It sounds so bland and uninspired. The fictional lyrics aren't the problem, but rather the icing on an already bland tasting cake. If there was something in the lyrics I could latch on to, that would at least make it a little better, but if anything the lyrics just make it worse.

Also, I don't have a problem with all fictional lyrics. I can think of plenty of songs by other bands that use fictional lyrics and successfully evoke an emotion from me. I simply think DT isn't very good at it.

All I'm saying is that there's nothing about DT that's inherently unemotional. It's one thing to say, "I don't connect to this particular song." It's another to say, "It's because the lyrics are fictional," or "Because they're too technical" or some other excuse that can also be applied to a ton of other bands that don't get the same criticism.

I don't understand what's wrong with this. If that's the reason a song doesn't connect with them, how is that their fault? Some bands do fictional lyrics better than others, some bands do technical music better than others. It's totally possible for someone to hear a song like ITPOE and think "wow those lyrics are so emotional" and then hear Forsaken and think "these fictional lyrics are really offputting this time and this has no emotional resonance with me".

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't see your problem, TGP. I mean, if I don't connect with a song, then of course I will try to articulate my reason for this in words, and that might lead me to making statements like "It's too technical" - because of the inherent subjectivity of music, I always read statements like that as a short-hand for "I do not connect to the song because, for my tastes, it is too technical" - what else can it mean? It's not like there is an objective standard as to how technical a song may be before being deemed "too technical".

That's not the point. The point is that, as soon as another song (usually by another band) is brought up, that's equally as technical, it suddenly doesn't apply because... Well, because that band is too amazing, and this band is not. 

I don't understand what's wrong with this. If that's the reason a song doesn't connect with them, how is that their fault? Some bands do fictional lyrics better than others, some bands do technical music better than others. It's totally possible for someone to hear a song like ITPOE and think "wow those lyrics are so emotional" and then hear Forsaken and think "these fictional lyrics are really offputting this time and this has no emotional resonance with me".

Of course it's possible, but it's all entirely subjective. To say, "DT isn't as good at writing fictional lyrics" is an opinion, and if someone says, "DT is amazing at writing fictional lyrics" is just as valid. Personally, I think Forsaken is an amazing song, and has great emotional and imaginative value. If you don't like it, fine. But whatever reasons you might list, I can just as easily disagree with.

[Scorpion]

I don't see your problem, TGP. I mean, if I don't connect with a song, then of course I will try to articulate my reason for this in words, and that might lead me to making statements like "It's too technical" - because of the inherent subjectivity of music, I always read statements like that as a short-hand for "I do not connect to the song because, for my tastes, it is too technical" - what else can it mean? It's not like there is an objective standard as to how technical a song may be before being deemed "too technical".

That's not the point. The point is that, as soon as another song (usually by another band) is brought up, that's equally as technical, it suddenly doesn't apply because... Well, because that band is too amazing, and this band is not. 

I'm not sure where you are going with this, but if it's where I think you are going (other bands are "allowed" to be technical that DT is called out on), then I strongly disagree. For one, it's not a complaint that's isolated to DT, and it's one that I have myself made quite a few times with regards to other bands, if I remember correctly, it's just natural that on a DT message board, it crops up more often in relation to DT than in relation to other bands. Second, it's always a case-by-case decision, and saying things like "But nobody complains about technicality in Spastic Ink, and they're hell more technical than DT ever are." doesn't help things, because not every band is, nor should it, be judged equally in this context.

Apologies if that didn't make any sense, to me it does, but then I am a) slightly drunk and b) very tired.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Plus there are like three people that listen to Spastic Ink.

Which is a shame.

[TheGreatPretender]

I'm not sure where you are going with this, but if it's where I think you are going (other bands are "allowed" to be technical that DT is called out on), then I strongly disagree. For one, it's not a complaint that's isolated to DT, and it's one that I have myself made quite a few times with regards to other bands, if I remember correctly, it's just natural that on a DT message board, it crops up more often in relation to DT than in relation to other bands. Second, it's always a case-by-case decision, and saying things like "But nobody complains about technicality in Spastic Ink, and they're hell more technical than DT ever are." doesn't help things, because not every band is, nor should it, be judged equally in this context.

Apologies if that didn't make any sense, to me it does, but then I am a) slightly drunk and b) very tired.

No it makes sense, especially for a tire drunk guy. But your last point, that they're not all judged equally in such a context, while valid, is a bit unfair. Especially with a negative mind state that might say, "This DT song is too technical. Mangini should be more soulful here and DT should be this or that." If that's what you think DT SHOULD be, then that's your problem, because there are other people that love the band exactly the way it is. I wouldn't change Forsaken or Constant Motion to be anything other than what they are.

It reminds me of a debate I had with a friend of mine regarding The Expendables 2 and 3. He didn't like them because of all the brief cameos and one liners, which was exactly the reason I DID like them. But he said something, he basically said, "I know it's silly, but it doesn't have to be. It could be a serious action thriller type franchise."
If that's what he wants it to be, that's fine, but it's not what it is, and there isn't "It SHOULD be this or that", because it is what it is. And trying to direct what you think it should be is pointless. If you don't like it, move onto something else and stop pissing in my cheerios.

Anyway, yeah, this conversation is getting way too pointless. All I'm saying is, there's no definitive, "This DT song is too technical, or not emotional enough." My whole point was that JLB put it in the best possible way, if people don't connect with it, they simply don't get it. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the song.

[bosk1]

But you can't just come in here and say all that as if that is the way it is.  I happen to like piss in my Cheerios, so who are you to tell me otherwise?  If you don't like it, move on and let me enjoy my cereal the way I like it.

[TheGreatPretender]

Sorry, I just didn't realize some people enjoy their favorite music more when other people scrutinize it.

[bosk1]

  I thought we were talking about cereal.