Rate DT members in terms of stage presence

[rumborak]

Surprised there's not been a thread about this yet.

Here's my ordering:

MP
JP
JLB
JR
MM
DS
KM
JM

Note: To the degree possible I was trying to take the limitations imposed by the instrument out of equation.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

MP had a huge stage presence, which was one of my favorite things about him. He was always fun to watch, and it seemed like he lived off the crowd. He had a great way of interacting with the audience it seemed.

I don't think this competition is fair for James. He gets to hide behind the amps for a good bit of the show. 

EDIT: Sorry, I had to. The more I think about it the more difficult it's getting for me to rank this. I'm going to change to a tier system.

Tier 1:
MP
MM
JLB

Tier 2:
JP
JR

Tier 3:
JM
KM
DS

[TheGreatPretender]

MP had a huge stage presence, which was one of my favorite things about him. He was always fun to watch, and it seemed like he lived off the crowd. He had a great way of interacting with the audience it seemed.

You make it sound like the guy is dead. He still does, just not in DT.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

MP had a huge stage presence, which was one of my favorite things about him. He was always fun to watch, and it seemed like he lived off the crowd. He had a great way of interacting with the audience it seemed.

You make it sound like the guy is dead. He still does, just not in DT.

  Well the thread is about DT members' stage presence, so I used past-tense since he is no longer a member. Unless I need to go watch all of Winter Rose and Planet X's live videos to rank DS and JLB,  I'm going to phrase my sentences like we're talking about the stage presence they had in Dream Theater.

I'd love to see Transatlantic or the Winery Dogs sometime (or whatever band he is in then).

[Siddhartha]

Portnoy
Mangini
Rudess
Petrucci
Myung
LaBrie

I never saw a DT gig before Jordan.

[Madman Shepherd]

I will never understand this stage presence thing.  If you interact with the crowd somewhat and master your instrument then why ask for anything else?  I don't want five people on stage commanding attention.  I also don't want it overdone.  If JLB was doing cartwheels on stage would that give him better stage presence?  Not in my mind.  It would look fucking dumb (although I hope he does at one gig...if for nothing else to shut people up that say there were no surprises night to night). 

I also don't understand how MP is any more entertaining to watch than MM. 

I'll go one step further, everyone says MP is clearly the better entertainer and MM is clearly the better musician...I say bullshit. 

MM is plenty fucking fun to watch.  He has crazy expressions.  He is looking out into the crowd and smiling, making faces at other DT members, doing one handed snare rolls, and just looks like he is having the time of his life. 

MP may not be as musically trained as MM but he certainly has done about as many complex patterns or interesting deviations from the norm that I would say he is about as good of a musician as MM. 

JLB interacts with the crowd enough, throws a couple high fives, cracks a few jokes, has his patented jibber jabber, points out into the crowd to make people feel connected, that I don't see how he can have any less of a stage presence than MP. 

Same with Jordan with the main exception that he doesn't leave his place except for keytar (and yes, it is a keytar) solos.

The one who clearly does not have much stage presence is JM and that is cool.  He still intereacts enough with the other guys to not be boring but its good to have a stoic member to balance them out. 

[rumborak]

I suggest watching Queen Live at Wembley for educational purposes.

[Madman Shepherd]

I suggest watching Queen Live at Wembley for educational purposes.

Seen it.  It's a great *QUEEN* concert. 

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Madman, for me, stage presence is just who I think looks the most energetic or enthusiastic (I could start using wierd adjectives like "solid" or "determined" but that's confusing). I always thought MP looked energetic because he would stand up, point, smile, and wave his arms around like an ape when he's playing.

It's not a measure of who I think is most talented, important, entertaining, or who I like most. I don't, and never will, try to rank members like that.  I love MM, he's an amazing guy, and musician. He's funny, and he's fun to watch. This is just ranking things for the hell of it as far as I'm concerned.

Also, when I said what I did about MP, I didn't mean that other members aren't engaging, entertaining, and energetic, I just wanted to complement the guy for once, because I don't seem to do that often around here.

[BlobVanDam]

MP
JR
MM
JLB
JP
DS
KM
JM

[Madman Shepherd]

Madman, for me, stage presence is just who I think looks the most energetic or enthusiastic (I could start using wierd adjectives like "solid" or "determined" but that's confusing). I always thought MP looked energetic because he would stand up, point, smile, and wave his arms around like an ape when he's playing.

It's not a measure of who I think is most talented, important, entertaining, or who I like most. I don't, and never will, try to rank members like that.  I love MM, he's an amazing guy, and musician. He's funny, and he's fun to watch. This is just ranking things for the hell of it as far as I'm concerned.

Also, when I said what I did about MP, I didn't mean that other members aren't engaging, entertaining, and energetic, I just wanted to complement the guy for once, because I don't seem to do that often around here.

I respect that.  But also, Ozzy is always jumping around and throwing water (although he doesn't leave his position in front of the teleprompter much) and interacting with the crowd (in the sense that he constantly yells at them that they aren't loud enough and commands them to go fucking crazy) much of which is done during guitar solos or times when the singer should shut the fuck up, but I would say his stage presence is pretty fucking horrible. 

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

As a huge Ozzy Osbourne fan, I agree.    The Ultimate Ozzy DVD from '86 is pretty fun to watch, and I think he does a pretty good job, but in general he's not the best frontman.
It's more of an abstract concept for me, and a pretty meaningless one at that. It's just hard to describe, and pointless to try. Like I said, just ranking stuff for the hell of it.

[bl5150]

  The Ultimate Ozzy 

One of my first VHS tapes 

[Grizz]

SS
MP
else
KM
JM

[TheGreatPretender]

I respect that.  But also, Ozzy is always jumping around and throwing water (although he doesn't leave his position in front of the teleprompter much) and interacting with the crowd (in the sense that he constantly yells at them that they aren't loud enough and commands them to go fucking crazy) much of which is done during guitar solos or times when the singer should shut the fuck up, but I would say his stage presence is pretty fucking horrible.

I can't really speak for Ozzy. But take frontmen like Bruce Dickinson and Dee Snider. IMO, they have some of the best stage presence in Metal. Both know exactly how to engage and energize the crowd. And honestly, I think that's the key factor. Yes, sometimes they do it by running around on stage, or this or that, but I don't think it's anything tangible. It's possible to learn to be MORE engaging, but ultimately, some people just ooze stage presence naturally, and they're able to entice the crowd just with their sheer energy.
When I saw Megadeth live, Dave Mustaine didn't even have to do anything. As soon as he walked onto the stage and just stood there, being all epic with his guitar, that was enough to just make the crowd be in awe.

[YtseJamittaja]

I'd go with the op.

MP
JP
JLB
JR
MM
DS
KM
JM

[Rodni Demental]

I will never understand this stage presence thing.  If you interact with the crowd somewhat and master your instrument then why ask for anything else?  I don't want five people on stage commanding attention.  I also don't want it overdone.

Yeah, I honestly haven't really thought about it. It's just not something that I really conisder. I mean, the closest I get to caring about DTs 'presence' is that JM doesn't get seen much even when there's a record amount of cameras going. But I don't expect nor want these guys to try and be anything other than who they are and I'd rather they were playing however they feel comfortable, because that will result in the best sounding show imo. Which is a higher priority in the presentation for me. Besides, the energy at DT concerts is different to other bands (as I'm sure all bands have relative differences), in that they're not really sprinting around on stage, ripping each others shirts off and doing triple backflip stagedives into the crowd during a solo.

[Siddhartha]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeVqllxhoe8

Good stage presence is a great thing to have. It does enhance the music, even without adding a single sound, the same way a good OST enhances a film.

Of course you don´t need it to make wonderful music.

I´m remembering seeing a video not so long ago of Petrucci saying that DT as the matter of fact think a lot in their stage presence, and I think you can see that, they look pretty cool while playing.

[Skeever]

Not sure where the showmanship went. It was obviously still there on the Live in Tokyo DVD.

[MoraWintersoul]

I way, way prefer watching MM to MP.

I think DT's supposed lack of stage presence comes from the fact that, out of the three people that can actually move on stage, one is very introverted, so it's kinda up to JLB and JP to make up for that. JP used to have a much more pronounced stage presence, and JLB used to be pretty wild too, but if you listen to the commentaries, JP bemoans every time he makes a mistake because of horsing around too much, and JLB also finds his past antics pretty amusing I think their stage presence is okay, although it definitely could be improved.

Comparing people to Bruce Dickinson is kind of pointless, since there are literally no other frontmen in the world like him. We could, however, ask why doesn't JLB have the commanding presence of a Ronnie James Dio (bless), and the answer is that DT have never went out of the way to craft themselves into legends - they were always proud of the image of everyday dudes in everyday clothes playing heavy music in front of crowds and being down to earth. However, there are people who are completely impressed with their stage presence because they find DT to be absolute legends of music and do not see everything through a critical lens, as we here are often prone to do.

[Zydar]

Stop making sense!

[MoraWintersoul]

Stop making sense!

James should morph into Bruce Dickinson and FLY AS HIGH AS THE SUUUUUUUUUUUUN, John should twirl around his guitar like Yngwie Malmsteen, and one of the video screens should be a projector showing Jordan's iPad display. Jordan should be casually crowdsurfing while playing it. Oh, and MM should spit. A lot.

Better?

[TheGreatPretender]

I think the problem is that people automatically go, "Less stage presence = bad thing". Saying that JM doesn't have as much stage presence doesn't make it a terribly bad thing, and he doesn't need to be defended. Same with comparing JLB to Bruce Dickinson. It's just an assessment. It doesn't reflect on how any of us feel about the band members or the band in general. First of all, DT's technical prowess is more important than any amount of stage presence. With bands like Kiss and Twisted Sister, they need stage presence, because their music is a lot simpler. With DT, because the music is so complex, you can just take one look at what any of them are doing at any given moment and it's far more entertaining to see JP move his fingers through the frets at lightning speed, than it would be to see him do any kind of whirlwinding, or, say, playing the guitar with his mouth or behind his back. There's no need for that kind of showmanship, because it's impressive to just watch him play.

[King Postwhore]

Simpler music does not equate for the necessity of stage presence. 

[Zydar]

Stop making sense!

James should morph into Bruce Dickinson and FLY AS HIGH AS THE SUUUUUUUUUUUUN, John should twirl around his guitar like Yngwie Malmsteen, and one of the video screens should be a projector showing Jordan's iPad display. Jordan should be casually crowdsurfing while playing it. Oh, and MM should spit. A lot.

Better?

Better

[BlobVanDam]

Simpler music does not equate for the necessity of stage presence. 

Ugh, this. People go to hear the music they love. Complexity of the music has literally zero to do with the appeal of wanting to hear music performed live.

And showmanship doesn't mean you need to have a sword duel with a giant monster, or ride a drumcoaster through a pyro while shooting a T-shirt cannon into the audience. It can just mean your personality is showing through with confidence, and not standing there like a zombie playing the music.

I used to consider DT a fun band, and they used to have some fun on stage that gave me a connection to the personalities of those performers as they are off-stage, which gave it a more personal vibe imo. The music comes first, but I still want a live experience that gives me more than I could get for free at home by listening to the studio albums.

[KevShmev]

I would agree that Portnoy has the best stage presence of all of the guys that have been in DT over the years, but it's all relative.  What I mean is, none of them have what I would call great stage presence, so Portnoy stands out when he was up there with them, but put Portnoy on stage with Transatlantic or Neal Morse and his band and he suddenly doesn't look to have that great a stage presence because he is up there with Neal Morse, and why would you watch Portnoy when Neal Morse is far more entertaining to watch? 

Myung definitely sits at the bottom.  Going from memory, when I saw DT twice back in April, I probably spent 80% of the instrumental time watching Petrucci or Mangini, with most of the rest of the time watching Rudess, with only the occasional glance at Myung.

[cramx3]

With regards to Bruce Dickinson, I recall in an interview I saw some time ago he mentioned his stage presence.  He said something along the lines of "When you are performing to a large crowd, how do you connect with them? How do you connect with people all the way in the back?  You can just wave a hand or do something small, you need to think bigger to get that interaction."  He then said so he would wave a british flag, he would run across the stage, and so on.  Things that everyone can clearly see and in some way get involved or feel like you are at the concert.  To me, that is stage presence, finding that way to connect with the crowd and give the crowd the feeling that they are there with the band. 

So for my rating:

MP
JR
JP
JLB
MM
JM

I have never seen DT before the JR era so I cant comment further based on my concert experiences.  I also think JLB has gotten much better in this regards, I think he could be under MP at this point, but since my thinking is of overall, I put him lower.  I probably have JR higher than most, but I think his presence is amazing for a keyboard player.  The way he has his keyboard move in circles or angle for everyone to see, plus him using the Zen Riffer as well as the rest of his gadgets to me is key for his high ranking.  I think there is also a pretty big dropoff between MM and JM.  MM while rated low for me, still has a great amount of presence for a drummer.  No knock on him at all.  JM however, really has no presence.  Besides the few times he moves to the middle to rock out with JP, he really does nothing to make the audience think he is even there.

[Sycsa]

Not directly responding to the topic, but I remember seeing DT for the first time, when I got the Live at Budokan DVD. I was 15 years old and was amazed by Portnoy's monstrous drum kit (by far the biggest one I've ever seen at the time), but Jordan's spinning keyboard stand and the fact that he creamed all his sounds into a single keyboard impressed me even more and was a lot of fun to watch. Of course, I was into ELP and Deep Purple at the time and it was still pretty tame compared to Keith's antics (stabbing, riding, kicking around the Hammond on stage), but oh well.

[bl5150]

That's kinda awesome - 15 yo in the 21st century and into Deep Purple and ELP. 

[Tick]

Besides JM having none, I put everyone else on equal footing.

[Infinite Cactus]

MP
JP
DS
JLB
MM
JR
KM
JM

[TAC]

The first time I saw DT in 1992 we were right in front of JM. I thought, man, the bass player is insane.

[Jaq]

Just list me under the people who can't figure out how standing up and playing the crashes counts as stage presence. 

[TheGreatPretender]

Simpler music does not equate for the necessity of stage presence.

It doesn't hurt. I love Twister Sister's music, but I'd have absolutely no reason or interest in seeing their live DVDs if all they did was stand there and play their music. But seeing the way Dee Snider engages the audience, and interacts with everyone, that's the fun part of seeing their live show.

Same with KISS. They never would have become such a sensation if they didn't have that visual appeal to them. And maybe that doesn't necessarily equate to stage presence, but it's still something that gives the audience an appealing show to LOOK at, not just listen to. And in addition to the costumes, they engage the audience really well, from what I've seen.

Simpler music might not equate to NECESSITY for greater stage presence, but that's not to say that stage presence counts for nothing, either. Iron Maiden's music isn't even simple, and Bruce Dickinson's stage presence is still a huge asset to their live shows.