Poll

What are your three favorite Opeth records?

Orchid
7 (1.1%)
Morningrise
15 (2.3%)
My Arms, Your Hearse
26 (4%)
Still Life
81 (12.3%)
Blackwater Park
161 (24.5%)
Deliverance
43 (6.5%)
Damnation
53 (8.1%)
Ghost Reveries
152 (23.1%)
Watershed
66 (10%)
Heritage
21 (3.2%)
Pale Communion
32 (4.9%)

Total Members Voted: 224

Voting closed: June 13, 2020, 08:32:34 AM

Author Topic: The official Opeth thread v. In Cauda Venenum  (Read 178391 times)

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #105 on: August 27, 2014, 09:36:57 AM »
Mike's songwriting approach seems to remind me of the same kind of obsessiveness involved with anorexia (this is strictly a comparison, I'm not implying he actually has an eating disorder.) Similar to how an anorexic person needlessly obsesses over losing more weight despite the fact that they don't need to, Mike seems to try to keep out-progging each prior album to the detriment of the songs' level of cohesiveness. It's like he thinks the can't-fail solution to every song is COUNTLESS UNPREDICTABLE TRANSITIONS!!!

I think this paragraph sums up the last 10 years of Dream Theater rather than Opeth to be honest.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #106 on: August 27, 2014, 09:53:52 AM »
IMO most songs on Pale Communion are more coherent than Häxprocess or Famine, for example (not that those are bad songs), not to mention the material on the first two albums.

Offline Riitasointi

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #107 on: August 27, 2014, 10:11:05 AM »
IMO most songs on Pale Communion are more coherent than Häxprocess or Famine, for example (not that those are bad songs), not to mention the material on the first two albums.

Well yeah I think Häxprocess especially is one of the more incoherent (and worst) pieces on Heritage. Also the early material may be jumping from one idea to another but at least the ideas were good. There are so many good melodies and riffs on Orchid and Morningrise that it more than makes up for the slightly unevolved songwriting. At this point I cannot really say the same about Pale Communion.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #108 on: August 27, 2014, 10:17:47 AM »
The last 3 songs are all brilliant, as is Eternal Rains and Goblin.
Moon Above still needs to grow on me though.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #109 on: August 27, 2014, 10:57:33 AM »
Now that we can actually say it...yeah. I'm done with new Opeth until Mike climbs out of the 70s prog rock worship thing. That's not why I got into them, I have plenty of far better 70s prog rock albums already, and frankly Mike's lost the ability to write interesting songs. In fact, I'll come out and say if the band had continued in their previous vein, I'd be just as bored as this album makes me.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #110 on: August 27, 2014, 12:21:56 PM »
I don't get it. Did they ever have a "previous vein"? It seems to me that every album changed quite a bit from Blackwater Park on. The only constant with Opeth albums was that something was going to change.

I get that the lack of metal guitars and blast beats probably puts off a lot of fans and I'd be willing to go along with that...except, Pale Communion sounds nothing like any 70's prog I've ever heard. Sure, you have hammond organ, and mellotron patches, along with quite a lot of clean guitar tones but the saturated mood of Opeth-Doom™ is unique in music. I'd be happy to change my opinion if anyone ever points me to 70's prog that sounds the same.

Oh, and I couldn't disagree more with the notion that nothing interesting is going on here. Take away the odd song structures, cool drumming, rocking bass, killer guitar solos, cool vocal harmonies and you'd still have some catchy melodies--which in and of itself is unique to Opeth.

I guess not every album can be Club Ninja.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #111 on: August 27, 2014, 12:25:15 PM »
Opeth stopped being good after Ghost Reveries.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #112 on: August 27, 2014, 12:26:21 PM »
Opeth stopped being good after Mikael joined in 1990.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #113 on: August 27, 2014, 12:27:58 PM »
I don't get it. Did they ever have a "previous vein"? It seems to me that every album changed quite a bit from Blackwater Park on. The only constant with Opeth albums was that something was going to change.
They may have evolved with each album, but to say they didn't have a previous vein is just absurd. They had a definite sound you could pin to them.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #114 on: August 27, 2014, 12:35:37 PM »
I don't get it. Did they ever have a "previous vein"? It seems to me that every album changed quite a bit from Blackwater Park on. The only constant with Opeth albums was that something was going to change.
They may have evolved with each album, but to say they didn't have a previous vein is just absurd. They had a definite sound you could pin to them.

I get that's how you look at it. And if I grant that there is overarching aesthetic to Opeth, at all, it's the pretty-gloom thing. What's absurd is to say that they don't have that anymore...just with different instruments and vocal style.
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Offline Riitasointi

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #115 on: August 27, 2014, 12:43:14 PM »
I don't want to sound rude or nit-picky but Opeth has had blast beat in exactly one song in their career  :tup

I'm not sure how it is but I feel that after Watershed even the melodies Mikael uses changed in nature somewhat. Heritage was a whole new beginning for the band and took the sound to a completely different place. It's not even the lack of death metal influences, seeing as Damnation definitely had that distinct Opeth sound.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #116 on: August 27, 2014, 12:51:12 PM »
Was it Lotus Eater? (checking my trivia gauge)

Would you settle for really fast double bass drum?  :biggrin:
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Offline Riitasointi

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #117 on: August 27, 2014, 12:54:51 PM »
Yep, Lotus Eater :) Fast double bass they have plenty, I give you that  ;D

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #118 on: August 27, 2014, 01:20:47 PM »
I don't get it. Did they ever have a "previous vein"? It seems to me that every album changed quite a bit from Blackwater Park on. The only constant with Opeth albums was that something was going to change.

I get that the lack of metal guitars and blast beats probably puts off a lot of fans and I'd be willing to go along with that...except, Pale Communion sounds nothing like any 70's prog I've ever heard. Sure, you have hammond organ, and mellotron patches, along with quite a lot of clean guitar tones but the saturated mood of Opeth-Doom™ is unique in music. I'd be happy to change my opinion if anyone ever points me to 70's prog that sounds the same.

Oh, and I couldn't disagree more with the notion that nothing interesting is going on here. Take away the odd song structures, cool drumming, rocking bass, killer guitar solos, cool vocal harmonies and you'd still have some catchy melodies--which in and of itself is unique to Opeth.

I guess not every album can be Club Ninja.

If you can't listen to the first minute and a half of the album and not be reminded of 70s prog, I suggest you didn't listen to a whole hell of a lot of it.

And I'd gladly rather listen to Club Ninja than this prog wankery Mike's passing off as Opeth these days.  :rollin
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Offline TioJorge

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #119 on: August 27, 2014, 01:23:08 PM »
 ::)

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #120 on: August 27, 2014, 01:23:33 PM »
Tastes...who knew?
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #122 on: August 27, 2014, 01:45:31 PM »
I don't get it. Did they ever have a "previous vein"? It seems to me that every album changed quite a bit from Blackwater Park on. The only constant with Opeth albums was that something was going to change.
They may have evolved with each album, but to say they didn't have a previous vein is just absurd. They had a definite sound you could pin to them.

I agree, and that is still there.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #123 on: August 27, 2014, 01:52:17 PM »
Wow, I'm surprised at the negative reactions from some of you. I thought this album would appeal to more people than Heritage. But yeah, tastes and stuff. I'll just take my album and go wank my ears with it.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #124 on: August 27, 2014, 01:54:13 PM »
I don't get it. Did they ever have a "previous vein"? It seems to me that every album changed quite a bit from Blackwater Park on. The only constant with Opeth albums was that something was going to change.
They may have evolved with each album, but to say they didn't have a previous vein is just absurd. They had a definite sound you could pin to them.

I agree, and that is still there.
If we're talking the imagery sure, but I think what's changed is like Jaq said is Mikaels ability to write interesting music, that isn't because it isn't TEH HEAVYZ anymore. And I agree with him on if they had kept their previous sound, it'd probably be some pretty boring proggy death metal.

But yeah it all comes out to taste guys, if you like this new branch of Opeth's life, good for you, I hope you enjoy it, I sincerely do, it just doesn't seem like it's for me.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #125 on: August 27, 2014, 02:05:09 PM »
Along the lines of what DC said, it is not that it is not heavy that gets me, it is that if I want to listen to 70s style prog, I have much better options than Heritage and Pale Communion.
     

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #126 on: August 27, 2014, 02:13:57 PM »
I don't get it. Did they ever have a "previous vein"? It seems to me that every album changed quite a bit from Blackwater Park on. The only constant with Opeth albums was that something was going to change.
They may have evolved with each album, but to say they didn't have a previous vein is just absurd. They had a definite sound you could pin to them.

I agree, and that is still there.
If we're talking the imagery sure, but I think what's changed is like Jaq said is Mikaels ability to write interesting music, that isn't because it isn't TEH HEAVYZ anymore. And I agree with him on if they had kept their previous sound, it'd probably be some pretty boring proggy death metal.

But yeah it all comes out to taste guys, if you like this new branch of Opeth's life, good for you, I hope you enjoy it, I sincerely do, it just doesn't seem like it's for me.
No I just meant that their sound is still there. The harmonic and tonal approach to their music hasn't changed at all, and structurally the music is pretty much as eclectic as it always was. I would say the only difference has been lack of growls (which they've done before as well) and production, which has changed a number of times in the past as well.

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Offline Riitasointi

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #127 on: August 27, 2014, 02:19:49 PM »
^ I personally could argue that the sound they once had is pretty much gone now. Mikael had a very distinct style of melodies and riffs and I really can't hear that anymore on these recent records. Could you maybe, out of pure interest, point out some sections of Pale Communion where you think the "Opeth-sound" or whatever is present?

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #128 on: August 27, 2014, 02:31:28 PM »
Along the lines of what DC said, it is not that it is not heavy that gets me, it is that if I want to listen to 70s style prog, I have much better options than Heritage and Pale Communion.

This is the most cogent argument against the new direction I've heard. Although I don't agree with it, this makes sense.

What doesn't makes sense is, (a) Heritage and Pale Communion sound exactly like 70's prog therefore it's crap, and (b) 70's prog is great! Now maybe it's my comprehension skills, and no one was actually saying that, but it sure seemed like it.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #129 on: August 27, 2014, 02:32:51 PM »
I think a lot of the mellow sections sound like classic Opeth, but because they aren't surrounded by the crushing heavy riffs and growls, they stand out as more derivative to those who miss the metal or the growling or whatever.  I get it, but I enjoy it.  It still retains enough of the classic Opeth mellow sound to still sound very much like Opeth.  Just not the metal side of the band.  If that makes sense.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #130 on: August 27, 2014, 02:41:09 PM »
It's a constant dilemma that bands face, either you become a band like AC/DC who has essentially made the same album 20 times, and people make jabs at you for playing it safe your entire career, or you try to change things up and change your style, and as a result you will get both love and hate for it. There are many ways in which you can change and evolve your sound of course, and the depending on the direction, people will either like or dislike it.

With Opeth, I've said it before, the 70's direction is not something I'm fond of. But I still give the music a chance, and in the same way Heritage was a disappointment for me, Pale Communion is a positive surprise. I don't know if I would automatically love another album in the classic Opeth style either. They've already made perfect albums in that style, so personally I don't think they could top those albums, so I'd rather see them do something else. Again, the 70's thing is not something I love, but at least they're doing something else.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #131 on: August 27, 2014, 02:45:58 PM »
Along the lines of what DC said, it is not that it is not heavy that gets me, it is that if I want to listen to 70s style prog, I have much better options than Heritage and Pale Communion.

This is the most cogent argument against the new direction I've heard. Although I don't agree with it, this makes sense.

What doesn't makes sense is, (a) Heritage and Pale Communion sound exactly like 70's prog therefore it's crap, and (b) 70's prog is great! Now maybe it's my comprehension skills, and no one was actually saying that, but it sure seemed like it.
What's hard to get, if I wanna listen to 70s style prog, there's much better albums and bands (old and current) to listen to in our opinion.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #132 on: August 27, 2014, 02:54:43 PM »
Along the lines of what DC said, it is not that it is not heavy that gets me, it is that if I want to listen to 70s style prog, I have much better options than Heritage and Pale Communion.

This is the most cogent argument against the new direction I've heard. Although I don't agree with it, this makes sense.

What doesn't makes sense is, (a) Heritage and Pale Communion sound exactly like 70's prog therefore it's crap, and (b) 70's prog is great! Now maybe it's my comprehension skills, and no one was actually saying that, but it sure seemed like it.
What's hard to get, if I wanna listen to 70s style prog, there's much better albums and bands (old and current) to listen to in our opinion.

I get that, but I think DTVT was the first to say it in that way.

I happen to disagree strenuously. I'd take Heritage (for instance) over every 70's album ever produced by Genesis or Uriah Heep, most of Jethro Tull, nearly all of ELP, half of King Crimson, some of Rush, and only the 70's output of Kansas, Pink Floyd and Yes is better or on par. Now, here's the clear distinction in my opinion, none of any of that music sounds even similar to Opeth in tone or mood.
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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #133 on: August 27, 2014, 03:02:43 PM »
Don't have my copy yet, but I had a chance to listen to the stream three times with my headphones.


What a GIGANTIC leap forward from Heritage !!!   :omg:


Man, I tried and tried and tried to get into Heritage and just couldn't do it.  But this album is absolutely brilliant.


Best Opeth album yet.  I didn't think they'd ever be able to top Ghost Reveries or Watershed, but right now Pale Communion is #1 - I can't wait to hear the HD tracks.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #134 on: August 27, 2014, 03:08:53 PM »
Chipping in as a non-Opeth fan for what it's worth. I own one album, the red one. PLayed it once I think and hated the growls and filed it. It was the late 90s and I was strggling to find new music I liked and I got it because lots of DT fans loved them so I thought I'd like it. Jeez was I wrong.

When I heard that things had "evolved" and the growls were gone for Heritage I gave it a go. I was bored by it tbh.

So I come to this album with little in the way of baggage and I like it. I like the Eastern vibe in much of it - I'm a sucker for that anyway. It's not going to rock my world or anything, but I like it and will probably buy it. If I want a mellow-ish album (doesn't happen much) this would fit the bill.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 03:19:11 PM by Lowdz »

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #135 on: August 27, 2014, 04:02:15 PM »



What a GIGANTIC leap forward from Heritage !!!   :omg:


Man, I tried and tried and tried to get into Heritage and just couldn't do it.  But this album is absolutely brilliant.



Just listened to it and I 100% agree.
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Offline TioJorge

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #136 on: August 27, 2014, 04:28:54 PM »
Good to see some positivity! I think the shining factor is the production, and even on track that I'm not too fond of like Moon Above, I find myself still listening to it if only for the idea that it 'sounds' so good even if I'm not connecting to the actual music. It's an interesting sensation. Even though most of the tracks haven't exactly grown a whole lot for me in either direction, one glaring exception is Goblin. I am totally digging the feel of the song and the name rings all too true, except with an injection of Akerfeldt. Voice of Treason has proven to be my favorite by far and away still. The beat screams that desolate Opeth vibe to me. A different Opeth, and aged Opeth. But Opeth nonetheless.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #137 on: August 27, 2014, 04:31:24 PM »
Goblin is probably still my least-favourite, but I am digging it more than I did at first.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #138 on: August 27, 2014, 04:35:44 PM »
Random non-new-album comment: I LOOOOOOVE their rendition of Bridge of Sighs. SO MUCH. I grew up hearing my dad play the original over and friggin' over; I hated it. Then I didn't hear it for a decade and randomly hear it by my (then) new favorite band and it got me so. hard. SO hard. I really wish Mikael would use this more bluesy singing more often, he really rocks it. I haven't listened to it in a while and it came up on Pandora randomly.

BACK TO IT.

Goblin, on my first listen, was the only track I thought I disliked, and with each listen I liked it more and more. It keeps on gettin' better for me, but it's really the only track that's happened with. All the others I have relatively the same opinion as when I first commented, which I didn't think would happen. But I still really enjoy most of it and as I said, if anything this is just another niche in the new sound they're carving out. Mikael certainly has a vision for what he wants though, that's quite clear.

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Re: The official Opeth thread v. Discuss Pale Communion on Aug 26th!!
« Reply #139 on: August 27, 2014, 06:03:40 PM »
After a few attempts, I just finished the album. So far, only Goblin and Faith in Others stand out. I am sure that the rest will grow on me; I was never able to finish any Opeth album on the first listen. They always take a few spins, but then I love them to death.  :metal
Only a prog fan would try to measure how much they enjoy a song by an equation. :lol
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