Biggest DT-related disappointment

[King Postwhore]

Jesus.  Just needy fans.  See the problem with MP and the old DT was that Mike put him and the band out there so much that it wasn't normal compared to all other bands.  Now that they've paired it back a bit people complain about it.  I just miss all the live bootlegs they released.

[genome]

I cry myself to sleep every night thinking of how incredible ADTOE would be with a big ballsy production. 

[bl5150]

I love the last two CDs so I'm definitely not in the group that has those as disappointments.

A few for me :

- FII.  Although I removed the tracks I don't like and added ACoS and now it's a really good CD.

- SDoIT, Disc 1.  I know I'm in the distinct minority but I still don't like it.

I agree with all that -  FII grew on me but remains mid order ........was a real WTF at the time of release. Certainly the biggest shock value.    SDOIT Disc One was the last automatic purchase for me for a while - in fact I was so disappointed in the change in the wankery/melody ratio that Disc 2 sat there unplayed for years.  I later realised     ToT, SC etc......also really tested my patience but  I am a happy chappy again after ADTOE and DT 12     

SDOIT Disc One has also grown a little but is still (if taken on its own) near the bottom of my rankings.

[Rodni Demental]

I just miss all the live bootlegs they released.

Yeah me too. But even still, we got that Happy Holidays release for free which essentially completed the unreleased live song list for most of the Mangini era. I'd like more bootlegs but I suppose these days, it's just a matter of comparing the performances because it's the same songs.

[KevShmev]

There's still quite a bit to be desired in the communications department.

Why? 

Jesus.  Just needy fans.  See the problem with MP and the old DT was that Mike put him and the band out there so much that it wasn't normal compared to all other bands.  Now that they've paired it back a bit people complain about it. 

Agreed.  Basically, Portnoy spoiled the hell out of DT fans for years, and now we are only getting a (large) percentage of what we used to, even though it's still more than most bands get, the spoiled fans are unhappy.  Basically, DT could do 28 of the 30 extra things Portnoy used to do, and some would complain about those other two things.  Such is life in DT land.

[BlobVanDam]

There's still quite a bit to be desired in the communications department.

Why? 

I think he was talking about an august 2014 release.

I don't, since there has been literally NOTHING from the band about it.

That's the peculiar part I find. LALP, despite the dragged-out release, there were announcements, videos with crying girls etc. With this one, hadn't they said something at the concert itself, we wouldn't even know about it.

That might be a start.

[KevShmev]

Er, the tour isn't even over yet.

[Stadler]

My biggest disappointment is/was Mike leaving.  I make no apologies for being a Portnoy fan, though I like all the other members and have nothing against Mike Mangini.   But I think the reason it has stayed the biggest disappointment instead of me moving on (I got over Blackmore, my favorite musician of all time, leaving Purple) is the above paragraph.   It was supposed to be no big deal, we'll do this and we'll do that, and yadda yadda and none of it happened.   I'm not usually one to care about the culture of the fanbase, but I did with DT, and it has noticeably changed and not for the better.

None of it happened? 

Did we imagine that bonus live CD that gave us all last Christmas?

Did we imagine the acoustic parts of the set lists on the ADTOE tour, something they hadn't done in forever or ever?

Did we imagine them playing songs on the last two tours that hadn't been played in a long time (Lifting Shadows, Trail of Tears, Wait for Sleep)  or ever (Space Dye Vest, The Shattered Fortress)?

What does adding a couple songs back into the set - a static set, I might remind - have to do with "stepping up on the levels of communication" and filling the void of "quasi-fan liaison"?  I might give you the bonus Xmas CD, but where's the studio diary?  Where's the updates on some of the delays that were experienced?   Where's the periodic Twitter Q&A?   Where's the latest batch of "hand crafted" Ytsejam releases?  What cover albums were performed on any of the last couple tours?  Where are the "special show setlists"?  Where are the events?  Some of these things happened too, but not NEARLY the frequency they did before.

Look, I'm not here to argue, and I'm not here to savage the band, who are still one of my favorites.  But I have over 1500 CDs, over 23,000 songs on my iPod and have seen almost 400 shows.  So while there are a lot of bands I like the music for, there are a select handful - and I mean five or six - that rise above, for whatever reason.  Kiss is one, Genesis is another, Purple and Maiden are there too.   For me, MP-era DT was on that list.  Current version is not.  That one of my favorite bands not only covered a song, but an ENTIRE ALBUM from two of my other favorite bands (Maiden and Purple) is a special connection for me.   I can't put a finger on it exactly, and I don't expect anyone else to understand or agree, but for me there was an intangible there.  A connection that I fully admit may have been in my head.  I get that feeling when I get the new Transatlantic, I didn't get that feeling with either ADTOE or DT12.    I hate the expression "your mileage may vary", but in fact, your mileage MAY vary.  It's like I think Marie Osmond is hot as all get out, and Angeline Jolie does nothing for me.  I'm sure others here would see it the exact opposite, and there's no explaining that either. 

[hefdaddy42]

I might give you the bonus Xmas CD, but where's the studio diary?  Where's the updates on some of the delays that were experienced?   Where's the periodic Twitter Q&A?   Where's the latest batch of "hand crafted" Ytsejam releases?  What cover albums were performed on any of the last couple tours?  Where are the "special show setlists"?  Where are the events?  Some of these things happened too, but not NEARLY the frequency they did before.

Because the one who did/promoted those things was MP, who is no longer there.

It seems unrealistic to expect four guys who haven't done ANY of that stuff for 20+years to all of a sudden do it to the extent that MP did it.  But all (except JM) HAVE dramatically increased their level of outreach to the fans.

Is it what it used to be?  No, but it's certainly not bad, and not anything I can fault any band members for.

[KevShmev]

That's fine, Stadler, but it sounds like picking nits to me.  Like I said earlier, DT could do 28 of the 30 extra things Portnoy used to do, and some would complain about those two things they aren't doing, like the studio diary thing or twitter Q&A (although I don't think that started until well after he had left Dream Theater).  Don't get me wrong, Portnoy did a lot of cool stuff for the fans, but the band is still doing quite a few things for the fans.  Accepting the same frequency and volume is probably unrealistic. 

And saying, "You might give me the bonus XMas CD," makes it sound like, "I hate to even give them credit," which means you are begrudgingly giving them half props for something just about every other fan viewed as a wonderful, unexpected gift to the fans.  It makes it sounds like no matter what they do, you'll point to something they aren't doing, hence my 28 out of 30 example above.

[Stadler]

To both HefDaddy42 and KevShmev, I see your point, and I get what I sound like, but it's not how I feel.  I'd like to think I wouldn't hold out for the 2 out of 30, and of course, everything I'm saying is in context.  It's not as if I have written off DT, nor do I think JP (in particular) is a hermit.  I, too, view the Xmas CD as a wonderful unexpected gift to the fans (they could have easily pressed that and commanded $16.95 a copy without blinking an eye).  I think I'm more complementing Mike than disparaging DT. 

Tiger Woods is a good example here; at one point, Tiger was unbeatable and was widely considered one of the greats to ever play the game.  He's not that now, but that doesn't mean he sucks.  He'd still shoot less in 18 than I would in 8.  It's more like DT went from "god-like" to just merely "superhuman".  I think most bands would take it if their fan called them "superhuman".   HefDaddy42 had it closest when he said "is it what it was? No, but it's certainly not bad".   I agree with that.   

[emtee]

I try to be fair but I admittedly have a pro MP bias.

I don't think any of the guys are as comfortable with the 'interaction with the fans' as MP was but they DID do a Q&A for the forum
that Rai (and other mods) put together and I think that was also a very nice gesture on their part. They all took time out of their
day (remember JP was cooking chicken) and answered many questions. I really enjoyed that.

[son_ov_hades]

Biggest disappointment will always be Train Of Thought. I knew the band would never top Scenes From A Memory, and Six Degrees was a disappointment in that regard but still a good album. Train Of Thought was just painful to listen to when it came out I just about wrote the band off at the time.   

[Setlist Scotty]

Jesus.  Just needy fans.  See the problem with MP and the old DT was that Mike put him and the band out there so much that it wasn't normal compared to all other bands.  Now that they've paired it back a bit people complain about it.  I just miss all the live bootlegs they released.

And what's wrong with us fans taking issue with the fact that things are not the way they used to be? Sure we were spoiled, but that's what made DT "especially special" - the music attracted us to them in the first place, but it was the connection they made that caused them to be more than just a band fans loved.

It seems unrealistic to expect four guys who haven't done ANY of that stuff for 20+years to all of a sudden do it to the extent that MP did it.  But all (except JM) HAVE dramatically increased their level of outreach to the fans.

Is it what it used to be?  No, but it's certainly not bad, and not anything I can fault any band members for.

That's fine, Stadler, but it sounds like picking nits to me.  Like I said earlier, DT could do 28 of the 30 extra things Portnoy used to do, and some would complain about those two things they aren't doing, like the studio diary thing or twitter Q&A (although I don't think that started until well after he had left Dream Theater).  Don't get me wrong, Portnoy did a lot of cool stuff for the fans, but the band is still doing quite a few things for the fans.  Accepting the same frequency and volume is probably unrealistic. 

No offense hef and Shmev, but no it is not unrealistic. Not when you consider that just about everything that was attributed to DT being above and beyond fan-friendly came from one person. Now that person is no longer there. The other 4 guys said "no problem - we're not incapable of doing what MP did on his own - we can handle it". So now you have 4 people (5 if you include MM) that are supposed to be doing what MP used to do on his own (never mind all the other side-projects that MP was involved in at the time). All each of them has to do is 20-25% of what MP did, and they're still not able to accomplish nearly as much!

And honestly, what are the "quite a few things" that the band is still doing for the fans that are noteworthy? There's the Xmas CD set, which was incredibly cool, the fact that they played SDVest and the video interview with all 5 guys that Weymo moderated, but what else? Adding TSF shouldn't be counted on since MP already made it clear that the next tour he was planning on doing with DT would feature the entire 12 Step Suite. And the acoustic thing really doesn't count, because I know MP was already giving thought to including an acoustic mini-set during their next Evening With tour as a means to catch their breath. The bigger, better light/video show is something to be expected on every new tour, so that's nothing new. JR uploaded many videos to Youtube while MP was in the band, so that's no change. I could've sworn that JP said he'd be far more active on his website than he was previously, and he started out doing so with answer fan questions, but that quickly faded away (in fact he hasn't posted on his forum in 3 years). So what else has the band done to step things up since MP left?

As Stads said, I'm not trying to roast the band over the coals - they're still my favorite band. But I'd be lying to say that I still have the same passion for them as I did when MP was in the band.

[KevShmev]

I am sorry, but not giving the band props for doing things that Portnoy supposedly was gonna do anyway - playing the Shattered Fortress and the acoustic sets, for example - seems rather silly to me. 

And yes, it is unrealistic to expect them to do EVERYTHING Portnoy did.  If doing those kinds of things were their things, they would have been doing them in the first place, like Petrucci answering questions from the fans or whatever.  Obviously, posting on his internet forum and/or social media is not really his thing, otherwise Petrucci would be doing it, not because he feels the need to fill the shoes of a former member, but because it was something he really wanted to do.  Forcing himself to do it just to do it would come off as disingenuous.

Having had a bit more time to consider how DT12 compares to their other albums, I would say its highs don't reach the highs on most of the other albums, but its lows are higher than the lows on the majority.  It's a very consistent album; most of the songs are in the good to very good range; nothing bad, but nothing totally outstanding either.  In other words, if I did a DT top 100, almost every song from it would probably be in the 35-70 range.

I still generally agree with what I wrote here, but after listening to DT12 over the last few days, for the first time in months, I was reminded that it really is pretty damn good from start to finish. Even if there are no top 20 DT songs in my book, its consistency is absolutely wonderful and makes for a great listen from start to finish.

[King Postwhore]

I guess I'm a realist Scotty.  I agree 100% what you said about the connection but I also know how obsessive MP was about getting all that stuff out to us.  So when he left, I knew that all the extra little joys we had with MP there would be gone.

I see how people react and it blows me away how they let something like this affect them.  I come from the age when we were lucky to find out anything about an album until the first single was released and now in this area, accessibility to bands are through the roof.

Maybe, the reason MP was so burnt out was the effort to take on so much himself and in the end, DT is drastically different today.  Just my 2 cents.

[Full Speed]

I would say DT12 or SC.

I LOVED ADTOE, but DT12 just bores me. The only song I ever listen to anymore is Enigma Machine.

[KevShmev]

Good post, king.

Regardless of what I've said, trust me, I wish other favorite bands of mine were as good about doing stuff for the fans are Portnoy was and DT still is.  Hell, I love Radiohead, but can we please get a release of a concert on DVD sometime in the 21st century?  That is something I'll always give Portnoy props for: he is a huge music fan, so he does stuff for the fans that he wishes his favorite bands growing up would have done.  It's hard not to like that particular attitude.  I am just saying though, the other DT guys are not the same in that regard, which is why, even though they still do a lot of cool things for the fans, they don't go that extra 10 miles that Portnoy did.  They just go four or five now.

[Setlist Scotty]

I am sorry, but not giving the band props for doing things that Portnoy supposedly was gonna do anyway - playing the Shattered Fortress and the acoustic sets, for example - seems rather silly to me. 

Why is that silly? If it was something that was already in the works before he left, why should it be considered something "especially special" now? And as Stads already mentioned, where are all the other perks such as the cover albums or at least cover songs, the special setlists, the official bootlegs and the other things?

And yes, it is unrealistic to expect them to do EVERYTHING Portnoy did.  If doing those kinds of things were their things, they would have been doing them in the first place, like Petrucci answering questions from the fans or whatever.  Obviously, posting on his internet forum and/or social media is not really his thing, otherwise Petrucci would be doing it, not because he feels the need to fill the shoes of a former member, but because it was something he really wanted to do.  Forcing himself to do it just to do it would come off as disingenuous.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. When the band themselves claim that they're going to step up and do everything that MP used to do, then they should do it. Again, asking 5 guys to do what 1 guy used to do is not asking too much, even if it's not something that they really want to do. It's a job. Lots of people don't like doing *everything* that their job entails, but they do it because it's expected of them. If doing something extra that they may not want to do means keeping their fanbase as extra happy as they were before, then why not do it? It's good business practice for them to do it and ensures that they'll keep the fans they have and continue to draw new ones in.

I am just saying though, the other DT guys are not the same in that regard, which is why, even though they still do a lot of cool things for the fans, they don't go that extra 10 miles that Portnoy did.  They just go four or five now.

I'd say more like one or two - maybe three now.     BTW, still waiting to know what all these other cool things are that they're doing for the fans - give me your best shot!   

[King Postwhore]

It take quite a detailed person to do what Mike did.  I was him as a teen but other friends were not like me.  We be in bands and I was pissed off how much I put in to promotion, the music, the lyrics ect... while others just wanted to make music and show up at gig time.

I would say that the others are not like MP was at all and they have stepped up in interviews but they will never match the detail that Mike put into the fans.  They never made promises to do exactly what Mike did, but they did say they would get more involved.

I just know they would never match the output that Mike did.  As a fan of the band, we all benefited from Mike's OCD.  I don't think besides Steven Wilson will we ever meet another obsessed like them.

[KevShmev]

I am sorry, but not giving the band props for doing things that Portnoy supposedly was gonna do anyway - playing the Shattered Fortress and the acoustic sets, for example - seems rather silly to me. 

Why is that silly? If it was something that was already in the works before he left, why should it be considered something "especially special" now? And as Stads already mentioned, where are all the other perks such as the cover albums or at least cover songs, the special setlists, the official bootlegs and the other things?

 

I didn't say it was "especially special"; that was your term.   I merely included playing songs they had never played before as part of the overall package of cool things they've done for the fans.

Regarding cover albums, I am one of probably many who is happy they aren't wasting their time with covers anymore live.  They have more than enough good songs of their own to where they don't need to play songs by others. 

I am guessing Portnoy still holding a lot of old stuff hostage is why more official bootlegs have yet to be released.  In fact, weren't you one of the ones who said that Portnoy every right to hold on to that stuff since he was the one who went out of his way to make sure every show was recorded and whatnot?  You can't dog the band for not releasing official bootlegs of stuff that you yourself have said they don't have a right to take from Portnoy to release.

This year's set list itself is pretty special, if you ask me.   

And yes, it is unrealistic to expect them to do EVERYTHING Portnoy did.  If doing those kinds of things were their things, they would have been doing them in the first place, like Petrucci answering questions from the fans or whatever.  Obviously, posting on his internet forum and/or social media is not really his thing, otherwise Petrucci would be doing it, not because he feels the need to fill the shoes of a former member, but because it was something he really wanted to do.  Forcing himself to do it just to do it would come off as disingenuous.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. When the band themselves claim that they're going to step up and do everything that MP used to do, then they should do it. Again, asking 5 guys to do what 1 guy used to do is not asking too much, even if it's not something that they really want to do. It's a job. Lots of people don't like doing *everything* that their job entails, but they do it because it's expected of them. If doing something extra that they may not want to do means keeping their fanbase as extra happy as they were before, then why not do it? It's good business practice for them to do it and ensures that they'll keep the fans they have and continue to draw new ones in.

They cannot control expectations.  If the fans expect too much, why is that their fault?  And I doubt they ever said they were gonna do EVERYTHING Portnoy used to.  I am pretty sure you are paraphrasing there.  This just proves my 28 out of 30 analogy here is totally correct, as you are getting too hung up on what they are NOT doing instead of enjoying what they ARE doing.

I am just saying though, the other DT guys are not the same in that regard, which is why, even though they still do a lot of cool things for the fans, they don't go that extra 10 miles that Portnoy did.  They just go four or five now.

I'd say more like one or two - maybe three now.     BTW, still waiting to know what all these other cool things are that they're doing for the fans - give me your best shot!   

Reread the thread if you cannot remember them.

[Setlist Scotty]

I am guessing Portnoy still holding a lot of old stuff hostage is why more official bootlegs have yet to be released.  In fact, weren't you one of the ones who said that Portnoy every right to hold on to that stuff since he was the one who went out of his way to make sure every show was recorded and whatnot?  You can't dog the band for not releasing official bootlegs of stuff that you yourself have said they don't have a right to take from Portnoy to release.

Not referring to MP-era stuff - I'm talking about MM-era stuff. Where's the official bootlegs? Surely they'd be able to release one or two shows from the Dramatic tour. Yeah, there would be overlap with LALP and the Xmas CDs, but it would be nice to have a high quality recording of one of the summer 2011 shows from Europe, one of the shows from the first run thru North America and/or the winter leg in Europe. And what about demos or "making of" recordings from ADToE or the s/t album?

They cannot control expectations.  If the fans expect too much, why is that their fault?  And I doubt they ever said they were gonna do EVERYTHING Portnoy used to.  I am pretty sure you are paraphrasing there.  This just proves my 28 out of 30 analogy here is totally correct, as you are getting too hung up on what they are NOT doing instead of enjoying what they ARE doing.

You're correct in that they cannot control expectations, but then they shouldn't have lead us to believe that they were going to handle what MP used to do. And you are correct in that I'm paraphrasing - don't have time to try to dig up the exact quote, but the implication is that they were still gonna maintain what MP had already established for the band. As for me getting hung up on what they are not doing as opposed to what they are doing, I beg to differ. The things I've brought up are things that very few bands go to the level of doing for their fans. THAT is what made DT stand out. What I've seen you bring up is what plenty of bands are doing in terms of trying to be fan friendly.

I am just saying though, the other DT guys are not the same in that regard, which is why, even though they still do a lot of cool things for the fans, they don't go that extra 10 miles that Portnoy did.  They just go four or five now.

I'd say more like one or two - maybe three now.     BTW, still waiting to know what all these other cool things are that they're doing for the fans - give me your best shot!   

Reread the thread if you cannot remember them.

How about you gimme the cliff-notes so I don't have to wade thru 5 pages of being disappointed by this album or that?

[MarkFitDT]

I'd say more like one or two - maybe three now.     BTW, still waiting to know what all these other cool things are that they're doing for the fans - give me your best shot!   

Id say the cool thing that they have given me post-MP is 2 albums which are much better than certainly the run of albums from Octavarium through to BCSL were - love them though I do. I appreciated everything Portnoy did for the band but personally I can live without all the extras and prefer to have a band that is obviously more stable and producing better music (imho of course)

[rumborak]

Have to agree with what Scotty said. Saying a 5-man band can't possibly compensate for the loss of a single member is weird.
Then again, nobody seems involved in the visual output either, otherwise some of the sloppy Hugh Syme mistakes wouldn't have gone through.
I think most of the stuff MP did has rather passed on to DT management than the guys.

[MoraWintersoul]

Then again, nobody seems involved in the visual output either, otherwise some of the sloppy Hugh Syme mistakes wouldn't have gone through.

There were sloppy mistakes on Sys Chaos too, and maybe others as well.

[rumborak]

I know, my point is that I think the lack of stepping is more systemic in that, while MP did a good chunk of tasks while he was with DT, the others did very little (which he more than once lamented), and when he left only a few of his tasks were picked up by DT members, with most falling to DT management.

[MarkFitDT]

I know, my point is that I think the lack of stepping is more systemic in that, while MP did a good chunk of tasks while he was with DT, the others did very little (which he more than once lamented), and when he left only a few of his tasks were picked up by DT members, with most falling to DT management.

Its very difficult to tell from the outside but Mike seemed like a control freak (not a dig, just an observation) and even if he said he wished the others would do more do you think he really meant it? He just seems to me like the type that wants total control.

[Setlist Scotty]

I know, my point is that I think the lack of stepping is more systemic in that, while MP did a good chunk of tasks while he was with DT, the others did very little (which he more than once lamented), and when he left only a few of his tasks were picked up by DT members, with most falling to DT management.

Its very difficult to tell from the outside but Mike seemed like a control freak (not a dig, just an observation) and even if he said he wished the others would do more do you think he really meant it? He just seems to me like the type that wants total control.

Quite possible. But then again, I'm sure that there were some things that he'd rather not have to do, but did because no one else was willing to do them. At the very least, someone else could have done intermediary steps of a specific task, with him signing off on the final product, issue, whatever - it would have lessened his load, yet still allowed him to have the overall control he'd probably want.

[MarkFitDT]

I know, my point is that I think the lack of stepping is more systemic in that, while MP did a good chunk of tasks while he was with DT, the others did very little (which he more than once lamented), and when he left only a few of his tasks were picked up by DT members, with most falling to DT management.

Its very difficult to tell from the outside but Mike seemed like a control freak (not a dig, just an observation) and even if he said he wished the others would do more do you think he really meant it? He just seems to me like the type that wants total control.

Quite possible. But then again, I'm sure that there were some things that he'd rather not have to do, but did because no one else was willing to do them. At the very least, someone else could have done intermediary steps of a specific task, with him signing off on the final product, issue, whatever - it would have lessened his load, yet still allowed him to have the overall control he'd probably want.

Yes, i can appreciate that - Im playing devils advocate on this - people can assume roles in situations without words even being spoken. Maybe the rest of the band thought things were "off limits". Im not quite as good as some other posters on here with putting together the correct words but Ive seen it with people that I work with - people take up roles, probably because they think they are the best person for that particular task, and colleagues let them get on with it. After a short time that becomes the norm.

[As I Am]

My biggest disappointment is/was Mike leaving.  I make no apologies for being a Portnoy fan, though I like all the other members and have nothing against Mike Mangini.   But I think the reason it has stayed the biggest disappointment instead of me moving on (I got over Blackmore, my favorite musician of all time, leaving Purple) is the above paragraph.   It was supposed to be no big deal, we'll do this and we'll do that, and yadda yadda and none of it happened.   I'm not usually one to care about the culture of the fanbase, but I did with DT, and it has noticeably changed and not for the better.

None of it happened? 

Did we imagine that bonus live CD that gave us all last Christmas?

Did we imagine the acoustic parts of the set lists on the ADTOE tour, something they hadn't done in forever or ever?

Did we imagine them playing songs on the last two tours that hadn't been played in a long time (Lifting Shadows, Trail of Tears, Wait for Sleep)  or ever (Space Dye Vest, The Shattered Fortress)?

What does adding a couple songs back into the set - a static set, I might remind - have to do with "stepping up on the levels of communication" and filling the void of "quasi-fan liaison"?  I might give you the bonus Xmas CD, but where's the studio diary?  Where's the updates on some of the delays that were experienced?   Where's the periodic Twitter Q&A?   Where's the latest batch of "hand crafted" Ytsejam releases?  What cover albums were performed on any of the last couple tours?  Where are the "special show setlists"?  Where are the events?  Some of these things happened too, but not NEARLY the frequency they did before.

Look, I'm not here to argue, and I'm not here to savage the band, who are still one of my favorites.  But I have over 1500 CDs, over 23,000 songs on my iPod and have seen almost 400 shows.  So while there are a lot of bands I like the music for, there are a select handful - and I mean five or six - that rise above, for whatever reason.  For me, MP-era DT was on that list.  Current version is not.  That one of my favorite bands not only covered a song, but an ENTIRE ALBUM from two of my other favorite bands (Maiden and Purple) is a special connection for me.   I can't put a finger on it exactly, and I don't expect anyone else to understand or agree, but for me there was an intangible there. 

 

[As I Am]

Jesus.  Just needy fans.  See the problem with MP and the old DT was that Mike put him and the band out there so much that it wasn't normal compared to all other bands.  Now that they've paired it back a bit people complain about it.  I just miss all the live bootlegs they released.

And what's wrong with us fans taking issue with the fact that things are not the way they used to be? Sure we were spoiled, but that's what made DT "especially special" - the music attracted us to them in the first place, but it was the connection they made that caused them to be more than just a band fans loved.

It seems unrealistic to expect four guys who haven't done ANY of that stuff for 20+years to all of a sudden do it to the extent that MP did it.  But all (except JM) HAVE dramatically increased their level of outreach to the fans.

Is it what it used to be?  No, but it's certainly not bad, and not anything I can fault any band members for.

That's fine, Stadler, but it sounds like picking nits to me.  Like I said earlier, DT could do 28 of the 30 extra things Portnoy used to do, and some would complain about those two things they aren't doing, like the studio diary thing or twitter Q&A (although I don't think that started until well after he had left Dream Theater).  Don't get me wrong, Portnoy did a lot of cool stuff for the fans, but the band is still doing quite a few things for the fans.  Accepting the same frequency and volume is probably unrealistic. 

No offense hef and Shmev, but no it is not unrealistic. Not when you consider that just about everything that was attributed to DT being above and beyond fan-friendly came from one person. Now that person is no longer there. The other 4 guys said "no problem - we're not incapable of doing what MP did on his own - we can handle it". So now you have 4 people (5 if you include MM) that are supposed to be doing what MP used to do on his own (never mind all the other side-projects that MP was involved in at the time). All each of them has to do is 20-25% of what MP did, and they're still not able to accomplish nearly as much!

And honestly, what are the "quite a few things" that the band is still doing for the fans that are noteworthy? There's the Xmas CD set, which was incredibly cool, the fact that they played SDVest and the video interview with all 5 guys that Weymo moderated, but what else? Adding TSF shouldn't be counted on since MP already made it clear that the next tour he was planning on doing with DT would feature the entire 12 Step Suite. And the acoustic thing really doesn't count, because I know MP was already giving thought to including an acoustic mini-set during their next Evening With tour as a means to catch their breath. The bigger, better light/video show is something to be expected on every new tour, so that's nothing new. JR uploaded many videos to Youtube while MP was in the band, so that's no change. I could've sworn that JP said he'd be far more active on his website than he was previously, and he started out doing so with answer fan questions, but that quickly faded away (in fact he hasn't posted on his forum in 3 years). So what else has the band done to step things up since MP left?

As Stads said, I'm not trying to roast the band over the coals - they're still my favorite band. But I'd be lying to say that I still have the same passion for them as I did when MP was in the band.

 

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think it's as simple as saying that 5 guys aren't doing what 1 guy used to do, or saying that it's their "job".  I think you are painting with a broad brush and oversimplifying things a great deal.

Expecting them to just "flip a switch" and become as OCD and outgoing and report-everything-in-the-world as MP was is just setting up a prelude to disappointment.  People don't work that way.  Rather, I commend them for doing what they are and changing in the ways that they have, rather than complain about how none of them are Portnoy, even collectively.

[MarkFitDT]

Jesus.  Just needy fans.  See the problem with MP and the old DT was that Mike put him and the band out there so much that it wasn't normal compared to all other bands.  Now that they've paired it back a bit people complain about it.  I just miss all the live bootlegs they released.

And what's wrong with us fans taking issue with the fact that things are not the way they used to be? Sure we were spoiled, but that's what made DT "especially special" - the music attracted us to them in the first place, but it was the connection they made that caused them to be more than just a band fans loved.

It seems unrealistic to expect four guys who haven't done ANY of that stuff for 20+years to all of a sudden do it to the extent that MP did it.  But all (except JM) HAVE dramatically increased their level of outreach to the fans.

Is it what it used to be?  No, but it's certainly not bad, and not anything I can fault any band members for.

That's fine, Stadler, but it sounds like picking nits to me.  Like I said earlier, DT could do 28 of the 30 extra things Portnoy used to do, and some would complain about those two things they aren't doing, like the studio diary thing or twitter Q&A (although I don't think that started until well after he had left Dream Theater).  Don't get me wrong, Portnoy did a lot of cool stuff for the fans, but the band is still doing quite a few things for the fans.  Accepting the same frequency and volume is probably unrealistic. 

No offense hef and Shmev, but no it is not unrealistic. Not when you consider that just about everything that was attributed to DT being above and beyond fan-friendly came from one person. Now that person is no longer there. The other 4 guys said "no problem - we're not incapable of doing what MP did on his own - we can handle it". So now you have 4 people (5 if you include MM) that are supposed to be doing what MP used to do on his own (never mind all the other side-projects that MP was involved in at the time). All each of them has to do is 20-25% of what MP did, and they're still not able to accomplish nearly as much!

And honestly, what are the "quite a few things" that the band is still doing for the fans that are noteworthy? There's the Xmas CD set, which was incredibly cool, the fact that they played SDVest and the video interview with all 5 guys that Weymo moderated, but what else? Adding TSF shouldn't be counted on since MP already made it clear that the next tour he was planning on doing with DT would feature the entire 12 Step Suite. And the acoustic thing really doesn't count, because I know MP was already giving thought to including an acoustic mini-set during their next Evening With tour as a means to catch their breath. The bigger, better light/video show is something to be expected on every new tour, so that's nothing new. JR uploaded many videos to Youtube while MP was in the band, so that's no change. I could've sworn that JP said he'd be far more active on his website than he was previously, and he started out doing so with answer fan questions, but that quickly faded away (in fact he hasn't posted on his forum in 3 years). So what else has the band done to step things up since MP left?

As Stads said, I'm not trying to roast the band over the coals - they're still my favorite band. But I'd be lying to say that I still have the same passion for them as I did when MP was in the band.

 

 

[KevShmev]

Exactly, hef.  However, I don't expect that reasonable position to fly with some. 

Also, MarkFitDT's post about the increase in music quality is a great point.  I'll take the increase in quality of the last two albums, over the last four with Portnoy, over albums that are merely good and tons of extra stuff.   Sure, how good the music is is totally subjective, but for this fan, the fact that the last two albums have been so good, especially ADTOE, has reenergized my enthusiasm for the band more than a release of a demo I'd listen to once and then never again, playing some cover I don't care about, etc., ever would.  Hell, I traveled to two different cities in less than a week this year to see the band, cause of how into them I am again, after having almost no urge to travel to see them again for nearly a decade.

[hefdaddy42]

Exactly, hef.  However, I don't expect that reasonable position to fly with some. 

I don't know from reasonable.  I can only speak of my own thought processes and feelings.

If these things really disappoint them, then they really disappoint them.  I just don't see it that way.

But FII?  THAT was disappointing.

And Raw Dog.