Author Topic: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?  (Read 24687 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FlyingBIZKIT

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5621
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #105 on: July 14, 2014, 08:54:26 PM »
Opinions and facts...THEY'RE SO CONFUSING!

And that's a fact!




I think.

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3850
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #106 on: July 14, 2014, 09:01:03 PM »
This whole thread  :lol
New Animal Soup scifi space opera for fans of Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Iron Maiden: Chariots of the Gods

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/chariots-of-the-gods

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #107 on: July 14, 2014, 09:11:28 PM »
So if someone genuinely enjoys The Room, their opinion machine is broken?


I enjoy The Room...I just have to be in the mood to laugh at a short bus full of window lickers trying to make a movie...and failing miserably.

Show me someone who thinks that The Room is masterful film making, and I will show you a participant in the Special Olympics.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #108 on: July 14, 2014, 09:17:23 PM »
As a matter of fact...simply as satire, I should do a Jammin Dude Show review of the greatest film ever made....The Room. I could even get Tommy to participate. All the time is be acting like Will Ferral's imitation of James Lipton. Just worshiping the guy.

Probably be hilarious.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline TioJorge

  • Constantly Contorting
  • Posts: 7082
  • Gender: Male
  • Ashes to ashes, fun to funky.
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2014, 10:16:50 PM »
I honestly think that regardless of Wiseau's intentions, he created an absolutely hilarious comedic film. I genuinely enjoy watching it, the rare occasions I do (or watch a youtube greatest hits). I honestly think The Room is one of the funniest films made; but I also enjoy very dry and offbeat humor (I really like Tim and Eric, Comedy Bang Bang! type shows).

In this regard, The Room is not only good, it's spectacular. Disregarding your omniscient law making, there is a pretty sizable group that enjoys that kind of humor, and even if Wiseau thought he was making Titanic, the film does it's job even if it was a job it didn't mean to do. His collaboration with Tim and Eric is kind of telling; I don't purport to know the man, but he's a genius even if he is a moron. People have been playing up fabricated personalities for a very long time, perhaps the most well known being Andy Kaufman. Now I'm not saying Wiseau is doing this, but I really don't think it's farfetched to say it's a possibility; it's certainly inspired other comedians and brought out some great creative flare for a lot of skits/sketches.

I'm not sure how many more retard jokes are coming my way, but the fact that the movie cause(ed/s) so much discussion kind of makes the origin of why the movie was created or whether it was created with the knowledge that it'd be called horrible moot. At least that's the way I see it. Then again I only have opinions. :sadpanda: The only thing so black and white in this world is black and white. RACE WAAAAAAAAAAR.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 11:49:43 PM by TioJorge »

DTP says "WOW, LOOK AT THAT GREAT POST"
RIP DTP.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #110 on: July 14, 2014, 10:23:51 PM »
90% of prog is contrived horse shit, but is 90% of horse shit also prog? Quick, where's the Venn diagram.
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53174
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2014, 08:36:47 AM »
The Room is "popular" for the same reasons that dreck like Sharknado, Plan 9 From Outer Space, and Attack of the Killer Tomatoes are "popular."

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8521
  • Gender: Male
  • Bryce & Kylie's Grandpa
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2014, 08:57:15 AM »
Yeah, but that doesn't invalidate anyone's opinion that it's shit or fabulous.  The value of ANY artistic endeavor is completely subjective.  Claiming an opinion as a "fact" is kind of silly. 




Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2014, 09:12:02 AM »
Yeah, but that doesn't invalidate anyone's opinion that it's shit or fabulous.  The value of ANY artistic endeavor is completely subjective.  Claiming an opinion as a "fact" is kind of silly. 





Agreed. And for me, the value of music/film/television is all down to entertainment. If I enjoy it, then it's good. If it entertains me more than something else, then on some level, it's "better" in the only way that really counts.

Does it make a difference to me if it's more popular, or more highly regarded, or award winning, or more complex, or any other objective measure? Not one bit. Because none of these are measures of my enjoyment of that creation. So even trying to apply objective measures is using a subjective assessment of what defines the quality or value of something. In the end, the only measure that matters is your own personal opinion.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53174
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #114 on: July 16, 2014, 09:31:15 AM »
I understand all of that, and I agree to a certain extent, but I also see where JD is coming from.  I mean, you can like/dislike something or someone in spite of their relative skill level at their purported activity.

I enjoy the film Hudson Hawk immensely, but I would never ever characterize it as "good".  It's crap, and I know it's crap.  I still like it, though.  Something in it appeals to me on a personal level, even though I recognize it is deeply, deeply flawed.  It is not good art.  It's bad art.  But I like it anyway.

Likewise, something can be very very good, but not appeal to me personally.  That doesn't mean that I can't recognize it as being of high quality.  The English Patient was a hit film, and won 9 Academy Awards including Best Picture and Best Director, but it didn't appeal to me personally.  I saw it and didn't like it.  Doesn't mean it is bad or low quality in any way.

I would separate the personal enjoyment/lack thereof from the discussion of how good someone/something is.  That's two different things.  There are actors that I don't like, but there are also bad actors.  Likewise, there are films I don't like, but there are also bad films.  There is music that I dislike, but there is also bad music.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #115 on: July 16, 2014, 12:53:41 PM »
OMG....someone gets it.  :tup
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #116 on: July 16, 2014, 01:50:40 PM »
Yeah, I agree entirely with the two of you.

I would also add that just because it's pretty much impossible to definitively make a judgement of which is better between two things of approximately equal quality does not mean that it is impossible to say that some things are objectively better than others. Meaning that just because I can't say which of two great films is greater doesn't mean that I can't say that they're both better films than the Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern movie (though to reiterate what hef said, it's entirely possible that I could have a personal dislike for both great films and have some weird love for the Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern movie). Similarly, I can't definitively state whether Dream Theater or Opeth is an objectively better band, but I can state that both are better than whatever music I would make if I decided to record an album (I cannot play any musical instrument).
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Ravenheart

  • Hair
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3263
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #117 on: July 16, 2014, 02:03:37 PM »
No.

No they are not.

Not even close.

Offline Jaq

  • Posts: 4050
  • Gender: Male
  • Favorite song by Europe: Carrie.
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #118 on: July 16, 2014, 04:10:10 PM »
What the fuck happened here?  :rollin
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings become dust in the wake of the hymn.
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall, no more than a breath on the wind.

Offline Jaffa

  • Just Jaffa
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4866
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #119 on: July 16, 2014, 07:12:49 PM »
Open challenge: pick any piece of art and explain what makes it good or bad without using any opinions. 
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #120 on: July 16, 2014, 07:16:56 PM »
Open challenge: pick any piece of art and explain what makes it good or bad without using any opinions.

We've *already said*....just because it cannot be defined or quantified does not mean that it does not exist.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline MoraWintersoul

  • Gloom Cookie
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6764
  • Gender: Female
  • welcome to the wasteland
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #121 on: July 16, 2014, 07:23:30 PM »
What the fuck happened here?  :rollin
DTF happened here.

I love all aspects of this place honestly but I ain't even touching this :lol

Quote
Don't try to BS her about Kevin Moore facts, she will obscure quote you in the face.

type : mora : and delete the spaces for a surprise

Offline Jaffa

  • Just Jaffa
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4866
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #122 on: July 16, 2014, 08:12:09 PM »
Open challenge: pick any piece of art and explain what makes it good or bad without using any opinions.

We've *already said*....just because it cannot be defined or quantified does not mean that it does not exist.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist; I'm saying it exists subjectively.  As in, it cannot be defined in any objective way, and is thus subject to the interpretation and opinion of every individual person. 
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59449
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #123 on: July 16, 2014, 08:18:46 PM »
Open challenge: pick any piece of art and explain what makes it good or bad without using any opinions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_v_ubcYsTI
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #124 on: July 16, 2014, 08:35:43 PM »
Open challenge: pick any piece of art and explain what makes it good or bad without using any opinions.

jammindude is right with regard to the ability to say something to the effect of "The Dark Knight is a good film because it has seven actings and ten writings and nine-and-one-half visual effects."

However, I think I can give reasons that a particular piece of art is good. So, if you insist, I will give it a shot. And if you don't mind, I'll use a film that I'm pretty comfortable with:

The film Spider-Man 2 is a good piece of art because it effectively portrays the intended theme that "with great power comes great responsibility" through the story of Peter Parker, who is the masked, super-powered vigilante Spider-Man. The plot of the film shows Peter making decisions that reflect his commitment to the responsibility he feels toward the general public and the negative results that these choices have on his personal life (his work, his education his friendships, his romantic life). It then shows his change in attitude towards these feelings of responsibility as they continue to take their toll on his happiness, with the eventual decision to give up the Spider-Man identity. However, Peter then realizes the impacts of his decision on the people of New York, including his loved ones, and decides to return to his role as Spider-Man in order to protect the people of the city, even though he must give up his dreams in the process. This progression in Peter's attitude is believable since the series of events which befall him, none of which seem unlikely though a few make use of coincidence, would make a reasonable person with his attitude change viewpoints in the manner he does.

This theme is also expressed in the progression of the Dr. Otto Octavius character, who attempts to build a dangerous piece of technology—one that he has always dreamed of building—using stolen money. In the conclusion, Octavius realizes through the destruction that his creation causes and the words of Peter (who tells him that sometimes people must give up their dreams, paralleling advice that his aunt has given him and that he has taken to heart), that he must destroy his invention. Octavius's impulse to forsake responsibility is symbolized by an apparatus of mechanical arms that have artificial intelligence that are bonded to him. Octavius's shift in attitude is not presented as believably as Peter's, since the change is more sudden and fewer events precipitate it, but it is reinforced by the physical separation between his sense of responsibility and his desire to forsake it that the film portrays, in addition to the portrayal early in the film (before the arms are attached) of Octavius as a generally caring, responsible man.

The decisions of the character Harry Osborn, who despises and wishes to kill Spider-Man because he believes that Spider-Man murdered his father, further reinforce the theme. Late in the film, Harry is granted the power to kill Spider-Man when Octavius brings Spider-Man to him as a captive. Harry is ready to kill Spider-Man, even if it means killing his best friend Peter, until he learns that his cherished friend Mary-Jane Watson will die if he chooses to kill Spider-Man. Harry, too, opts for the rout of responsibility in realizing that he must use his power over Spider-Man to release him in order to prevent his friend from dying. Harry, also, gives up a dream for a worthy cause. This is a minor component of the overall action, but Harry's decision is shown as believable since it is clear that Mary-Jane represents a significant value to him (and since he is depicted as being not totally eager to commit murder).

The actors in the film generally do well at portraying the plot. Alfred Molina's performance as Otto Octavius is very believable and captures the essence of Octavius's struggle with his mad desire to complete his invention as well as his ultimate turn to a responsible course of action. Tobey Maguire's portrayal of Peter Parker is characterized at times by a more limited range of emotional expression, and is not as lively as Molina's, but it does portray Peter as a confused, uncertain young adult, which is a portrayal that complements the attitudes he is shown as possessing over the course of the film. James Franco plays the role of Harry Osborn well, vividly depicting the desire for revenge this character possesses, and his later confusion and hesitance towards the act of killing and decision of self-denial in choosing the path of responsibility. The weakest part of the acting is Kirsten Dunst, who plays Mary-Jane and, like Maguire, has a somewhat limited range of emotion. One of her and Maguire's weaknesses, that they sometimes speak too slowly, which can negate the dramatic tension of some scenes by pacing them too slowly, could potentially be chalked up to directorial decisions.

I am not qualified to comment on length on the directing and other visual elements of the film, but I will briefly say that throughout the film the visual elements do not detract and often enhance the immersion of the film. The Spider-Man web-swinging and wall-climbing scenes, in particular, depict with few visible lapses a realistic portrait of a man with such preternatural abilities.

Spider-Man 2 is a good film because it possess a compelling, believable plot (with only a few slight lapses) that expresses the intended theme of the choice that exists between personal desires and responsibility. This plot is depicted with mostly believable acting, though there are parts of the cast that are not as strong as they could be. The visual elements of the film do not at any time detract from the plot's believability and at times enhance it.


Edit: And I expect that you're going to reject this because it's "opinion-based." I'm not really sure what to do with such a rejection, except to say that there ARE objective truths to be stated that do not come down to a matter of numbers or of simple observations. "This plot is logical and believable" IS an objective statement that can be made, as is something else like "this actor accurately depicted this attitude or emotion." Just because I can't quantify the exact ways in which he did so does not mean that it is impossible to objectively state that he did it. So there's pretty much all I have to say about that.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59449
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #125 on: July 16, 2014, 08:38:41 PM »
425,  You almost wrote your one credit final report to get your Masters in film.


Edit, and Jaffa my buddy, my youtube link fights your battle perfectly.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline 425

  • Posts: 6910
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #126 on: July 16, 2014, 08:45:38 PM »
Yeah, that type of thing always happens to me. I don't ever really intended to write things that are so long, but once I get into the flow I can hardly help it. I don't think I said anything superfluous in there, though (which is something I forgot to say in there! The movie does not include a large number of superfluous scenes or subplots). Although, I don't suppose a lot of Masters theses are written about Spider-Man 2...  :P
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 7668
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #127 on: July 16, 2014, 08:46:44 PM »
The idea that the quality of art could be objectively quantified is so bizarre to me that I don't even really know what to say. As it's obvious none of us are going to convince the others, I believe I shall recuse myself from this.

Offline King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59449
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2014, 08:48:13 PM »
Yeah, that type of thing always happens to me. I don't ever really intended to write things that are so long, but once I get into the flow I can hardly help it. I don't think I said anything superfluous in there, though (which is something I forgot to say in there! The movie does not include a large number of superfluous scenes or subplots). Although, I don't suppose a lot of Masters theses are written about Spider-Man 2...  :P

 :lol

I just imagined how long it took you to think about, process it out and type it out.  Way to long for me to invest doing! :lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #129 on: July 16, 2014, 08:56:28 PM »
I never said it could be objectively quantified. In fact, quite the opposite.

What baffles me is that people are saying that if a "line in the sand" cannot be objectively quantified, then it does not exist at all. I completely disagree.

If this "line in the sand" does not exist at all, then there is absolutely no difference between Lawrence of Arabia and Dumb and Dumber. Even though I personally get MORE enjoyment from Dumb and Dumber, you will never hear me claim that it is better than LoA. However you will hear me claim that LoA IS A BETTER FILM IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT I DON'T ENJOY IT AS MUCH AS DUMB AND DUMBER.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 7668
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #130 on: July 16, 2014, 08:57:16 PM »
Your use of caps convinced me.

Offline jammindude

  • Posts: 15301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #131 on: July 16, 2014, 08:58:49 PM »
Your use of caps convinced me.

Sorry, I was feeling like my point had been glossed over in several posts.
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world.
Than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." - Neil Peart

The Jammin Dude Show - https://www.youtube.com/user/jammindude

Offline Jaffa

  • Just Jaffa
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4866
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #132 on: July 16, 2014, 09:01:46 PM »
Spider-Man 2 is a good film because it possess a compelling, believable plot (with only a few slight lapses) that expresses the intended theme of the choice that exists between personal desires and responsibility. This plot is depicted with mostly believable acting, though there are parts of the cast that are not as strong as they could be. The visual elements of the film do not at any time detract from the plot's believability and at times enhance it.


Edit: And I expect that you're going to reject this because it's "opinion-based." I'm not really sure what to do with such a rejection, except to say that there ARE objective truths to be stated that do not come down to a matter of numbers or of simple observations. "This plot is logical and believable" IS an objective statement that can be made, as is something else like "this actor accurately depicted this attitude or emotion." Just because I can't quantify the exact ways in which he did so does not mean that it is impossible to objectively state that he did it. So there's pretty much all I have to say about that.

You're right - I do think everything you're saying is based entirely on opinion. 

You talk about the acting being believable, for instance - but believable to whom?  Because that's going to vary from person to person.  You singled out Alfred Molina's portrayal of Doctor Octavious as being particularly believable, but I actually thought Molina's acting was generally one of the weak points of Spider-Man 2.  He had one shining moment (I love his delivery of 'brilliant but lazy' near the end of the film, with that little smirk on his face), but his performance was otherwise largely unimpressive to me.  At time I honestly found it laughably bad. 

So who's right?  If there's some objective truth to the equation, then one of us must be objectively wrong. 

Or we just experienced Molina's performance differently because we're different people, and both of our experiences are equally valid.

What baffles me is that people are saying that if a "line in the sand" cannot be objectively quantified, then it does not exist at all. I completely disagree.

If you'll refer to my last post, I'm not saying the the 'line in the sand' does not exist.  I'm saying that the line in the sand is subjective.

If an idea cannot be objectively quantified, it is not objective.  That doesn't mean the idea doesn't exist, it just means the idea is not universally true. 
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline Podaar

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9936
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #133 on: July 16, 2014, 09:38:49 PM »
If an idea cannot be objectively quantified, it is not objective.  That doesn't mean the idea doesn't exist, it just means the idea is not universally true.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp. I'm baffled that the words objective and subjective continue to be redefined in this thread. I can only assume the word "consensus" is what's being groped around for but not being found.

The consensus opinion is: Laurence of Arabia is a great movie with great acting. There is no objective measure to verify this...no mathematical formula. One's personal subjective opinion either agrees or disagrees with this, yet nothing is inherently wrong with either opinion--other than the possible consequence of being looked down on from the group with the majority opinion.

*edited for unreadable sentence structure
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 06:43:45 AM by Podaar »
"Owners of dogs will have noticed that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they will think you are God. Whereas owners of cats are compelled to realize that, if you provide them with food and water and affection, they draw the conclusion that they are God.” — Christopher Hitchens

Offline ariich

  • Roulette Supervillain
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 28042
  • Gender: Male
  • sexin' you later
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #134 on: July 17, 2014, 03:03:23 AM »
Conensus is an objective measure, for sure, but of popularity, not of quality.

I completely agree with Jaffa.

The one thing I would say that could be defined objectively is the extent to which a piece of art does what the artist wanted to do. But even that doesn't define something as good or bad.

Ariich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
I be am boner inducing.

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53174
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #135 on: July 17, 2014, 05:06:28 AM »
So you are saying that there are no "bad" artists or "bad" art?  There are no people who produce art (film, pictures, books) who are just bad at it?
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Podaar

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9936
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #136 on: July 17, 2014, 06:41:03 AM »
No, just that there are no bad artists objectively. The extent that a movie, music or art is bad is purely subjective, or a matter of opinion.
"Owners of dogs will have noticed that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they will think you are God. Whereas owners of cats are compelled to realize that, if you provide them with food and water and affection, they draw the conclusion that they are God.” — Christopher Hitchens

Offline Zantera

  • Wolfman's brother
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13437
  • Gender: Male
  • Bouncing around the room
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #137 on: July 17, 2014, 06:50:58 AM »
This started out as a silly discussion that derailed into "Can music be objectively good?" which is even worse.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

  • Official Forum Sous Chef and broler5
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13979
  • Gender: Male
  • Kelly Clarkson BEEFS
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #138 on: July 17, 2014, 07:24:31 AM »
So you are saying that there are no "bad" artists or "bad" art?  There are no people who produce art (film, pictures, books) who are just bad at it?

Whoever is suggesting this needs to go buy a Nickelback album.

Offline Jaq

  • Posts: 4050
  • Gender: Male
  • Favorite song by Europe: Carrie.
Re: Are "prog" fans generally more open minded people?
« Reply #139 on: July 17, 2014, 08:41:04 AM »
But they sell millions of albums, so clearly someone doesn't think they're bad. You just don't like them  :lol

I don't like them, but that doesn't mean I think they're bad. Why is this so hard to understand?  :rollin
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings become dust in the wake of the hymn.
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall, no more than a breath on the wind.