Great tour show - Really minor complaint

[stephendawson]

Thanks for explaining about the click tracks, I was completely unaware of these.

How would playing with a click track make it difficult for MM to replicate MP performance at the end of finally free?

[BlobVanDam]

Thanks for explaining about the click tracks, I was completely unaware of these.

How would playing with a click track make it difficult for MM to replicate MP performance at the end of finally free?

MP's drum parts at the end of that song let loose and the drums basically take the lead there, and don't really provide as clear a rhythm for the rest of the band to play to. I believe MP explains on the Metropolis 2000 DVD commentary that the rest of the band keeps that section together, and then MP has to come back in to their timing.
Playing it exactly as on the album would be a bit hard with a click track, because only MM hears the click track, not the rest of the band. The rest of the band hears MM's drums, and each other, and play from that. If the band is unable to sense the tempo from the drums, then they could drift out of sync with the click track.

I believe that's why MM modifies that section live to be a more standard rhythm, but intensifies by playing a faster beat, rather than ripping out the big drum fills, because he'd be fully capable of playing it as on the album. Personally I didn't like the changed ending, but I get that it was probably necessary to do it that way.

[mikeyd23]

That makes sense, but if they really, really wanted to have MM play something more similar to MP's studio part they totally could.

That issue can easily be changed though by having the rest of the band hear the click for that section of the song.  It would just require the monitor tech to feed the click into each band members in ear mix.

Or like I said earlier just have the click programmed to end right before that big fill section.  There's no looped parts after that section they would have to line up with therefore they could easily extend/jam/feel out that section without a tempo restriction.

[The Curious Orange]

Personally, I don't mind the click track or the resultant mechanical nature of the shows - this is the best I've ever seen DT and I'm happy to sacrifice something of the spontaneity for shows this good.

That said, I feel they might be making a big mistake in not changing the setlist for this second European leg. Really, the minimum they should have done was swap two songs in the first half - that would have been enough. An awful lot of the people at Sheffield were at the February shows, and having seen this show three times, next tour I'm only going to see them once. I suspect that if the next tour has a second leg, they'll be playing to a lot of half-empty venues, as I'm sure I'm not the only fan who'll be staying away.

And if that happens, promoters will only book them into smaller venues next time (if at all), and that's not good for the band or the fans.

[hefdaddy42]

Their production is so big and detailed and the rehearsals to get everything synched up perfectly were probably so taxing that they didn't want to go to the effort of doing a different one, or even changing anything with it at all.

[BlobVanDam]

That makes sense, but if they really, really wanted to have MM play something more similar to MP's studio part they totally could.

That issue can easily be changed though by having the rest of the band hear the click for that section of the song.  It would just require the monitor tech to feed the click into each band members in ear mix.

Or like I said earlier just have the click programmed to end right before that big fill section.  There's no looped parts after that section they would have to line up with therefore they could easily extend/jam/feel out that section without a tempo restriction.

Ending the click track at that point would be my preferred solution, but they probably wanted to keep everything consistent and synced up and running smoothly. That section was probably a tough one to keep together, and they chose to change it in a way that made the show run more smoothly.

[mikeyd23]

That makes sense, but if they really, really wanted to have MM play something more similar to MP's studio part they totally could.

That issue can easily be changed though by having the rest of the band hear the click for that section of the song.  It would just require the monitor tech to feed the click into each band members in ear mix.

Or like I said earlier just have the click programmed to end right before that big fill section.  There's no looped parts after that section they would have to line up with therefore they could easily extend/jam/feel out that section without a tempo restriction.

Ending the click track at that point would be my preferred solution, but they probably wanted to keep everything consistent and synced up and running smoothly. That section was probably a tough one to keep together, and they chose to change it in a way that made the show run more smoothly.

I totally agree with you. The point is, they had other options to make the section more true to MP's part and it seems like they decided keeping the show and the production tight was a higher priority.  I'm not saying that's good or bad, it just seems like the way they leaned.

[Grizz]

Their production is so big and detailed and the rehearsals to get everything synched up perfectly were probably so taxing that they didn't want to go to the effort of doing a different one, or even changing anything with it at all.

If they have the songs advance automatically (as in the lighting/video guy doesn't press the green GO circle at the start of each song) with their current visual setup I have no respect for this live crew.
Seriously, that's just fucking lazy.

[bosk1]

Not necessarily.

[genome]

Their production is so big and detailed and the rehearsals to get everything synched up perfectly were probably so taxing that they didn't want to go to the effort of doing a different one, or even changing anything with it at all.

If they have the songs advance automatically (as in the lighting/video guy doesn't press the green GO circle at the start of each song) with their current visual setup I have no respect for this live crew.
Seriously, that's just fucking lazy.

Or resourceful? Cost effective? Tours are expensive. If they can find a way to cue it automatically via MIDI or whatever means and save paying out for someone's salary then I can see why they would.

[bosk1]

Even if the cost is the same, I see nothing wrong with a system that is more automated where the personnel present to monitor it are more troubleshooters than having to advance it manually.  My I.T. guy doesn't have to come in and start my computer every morning or open and close programs for me, but he is a star if something breaks down and I need him to jump in and troubleshoot something.  That's not laziness; he just has a different role than someone who is hands-on all the time.

[rumborak]

That makes sense, but if they really, really wanted to have MM play something more similar to MP's studio part they totally could.

That issue can easily be changed though by having the rest of the band hear the click for that section of the song.  It would just require the monitor tech to feed the click into each band members in ear mix.

Or like I said earlier just have the click programmed to end right before that big fill section.  There's no looped parts after that section they would have to line up with therefore they could easily extend/jam/feel out that section without a tempo restriction.

Ending the click track at that point would be my preferred solution, but they probably wanted to keep everything consistent and synced up and running smoothly. That section was probably a tough one to keep together, and they chose to change it in a way that made the show run more smoothly.

Who knows what the underlying reason eventually is for not changing things up, but they're definitely so resistant to it that they'd rather play the Boston gig without hearing any of the orchestra at all. That part kinds blows my mind actually.

[mikeyd23]

Who knows what the underlying reason eventually is for not changing things up, but they're definitely so resistant to it that they'd rather play the Boston gig without hearing any of the orchestra at all. That part kinds blows my mind actually.

Why does that blow your mind? The orchestra was there to accompany DT, not the other way around.  DT didn't need to hear the orchestra for cues because the orchestra was following them, so why would they need to hear them?

I know when Metallica did S&M the orchestra was not in their in-ears at all either.  That doesn't seem that weird to me.

I wonder if DT had the orchestra in their in-ears for Score...?

[The Curious Orange]

The show isn't that complex that they couldn't swap TSF and TOT for two other songs and leave the rest unchanged.

[TAC]

The show isn't that complex that they couldn't swap TSF and TOT for two other songs and leave the rest unchanged.

I'm with you there.

[MoraWintersoul]

The show isn't that complex that they couldn't swap TSF and TOT for two other songs and leave the rest unchanged.

Why TSF and TOT though? The first has never been played prior to this tour and the second is a fan-favorite that's been absent for a long while.

[Tim van Duijn]

Well, what i can say is that the show i saw yesterday was absolutely amazing (even for the 3rd time seeing it). But what i'm really pissed off about are those useless meet and greets. Of course it is an experience to see your heroes from this close and say something to them, and have early access to the venue etc. But what is bugging me is the fact that the band doesn't give a shit about what you say to them. Everything is extremely forced (even Rick the tourmanager couldn't even smile once).

Jordan, Mike Mangini and John Petrucci (JP is my idol) were extremely closed and the only thing they did were signing the stuff you took with you and showing less interest as the Meet and Greet went on.

Me: Hey John, how are you? Do you still lift?
JP: Sometimes
Me: *ok he's a bit closed or annoyed or whatever, better ask another question* Is it hard for you to keep your routine while on tour?
JP: It's challenging

I was like what the hell?! And then he went on signing the stuff from the guy behind me. The only one i had a real fun conversation with was JLB. We talked about his participation on The Theater Equation and how excited and honored he is to do it. JR and MM were extremely closed and after 10 minutes they were all gone.

[KevShmev]

On the one hand, I agree, that has to be frustrating, but on the other hand, they are only human; you cannot expect them to be all smiles and friendly 24/7, especially right before or after a 3-hour show (not sure if they are before or after the show this time around).  I know, I know, they should put on happy faces considering the fans are paying extra for this, but like I said, they are only human. 

Also, remember that it is called meet and greet.  Saying hi or hello is a greeting; having a conversation is more than that, and if they have a conversation with every single fan who goes through the meet and greet line, it would take forever.  They almost have to keep their answers short and sweet.

[Sycsa]

For some reason I love reading the Meet & Greet stories of disappoionted fans.

[Skeever]

I've always felt meet and greets were for either very wealthy or very gullible people. Obviously the experience is something like a cattleshoot where you get to wait in line and eventually shake hands with the guys.

[nikatapi]

No offence to the band or the people who go to M&G, but i'm so against it as an idea, i mean paying to get to shake their hands and have a photo? No thanks, i feel like this would be ok for a pop star or something, but for a metal band it seems so out of place as a mentality.

[Grizz]

I think it was introduced to cover the full video and better lighting introduced in 2004.

[hefdaddy42]

Knowing what it is, it's not something that appeals to me very much.

[Madman Shepherd]

I did a M&G once and it has fulfilled me.  It was exactly what I thought it would be.  Nothing mind blowing happened and I got the opportunity to get some autographs and show my appreciation.  I didn't expect anything more. 

[CharlesPL]

I've never been on meet and greet,I prefer to spend that money on another DT show.Many times I met them before or after the concert.

[rumborak]

I think it was introduced to cover the full video and better lighting introduced in 2004.

That's what MP claimed when addressing the massive flak DT got for the VIP+M&G stuff. I never bought it, not for a second.

[Setlist Scotty]

I think it was introduced to cover the full video and better lighting introduced in 2004.

That's what MP claimed when addressing the massive flak DT got for the VIP+M&G stuff. I never bought it, not for a second.

I know people will say that it's just because I'm friends with MP, but I do believe it (keeping in mind that MP's always been pretty upfront with everything) - at least initially. At this point (and for the last few tours), maybe not.

It's worth noting that originally, there was a limit to how many people could purchase the platinum package at each show - I think maybe 20. And the M&G was much better than before - I know because I did it at the LA show in 2006. You took a couple photos with the guys and then once everyone had their pictures taken, fans mingled with the band for somewhere between 10-20 minutes (similar to how the traditional aftershows are still handled today).

These days, from the descriptions by other fans, it sounds like everything is in an assembly line and there's almost a complete lack of personality to the whole thing. And I don't think there's a limit to the number of platinum packages sold, or at the very least, there's a lot more available per show than in the past.

BTW, for those wondering what the original explanation was for allowing the VIP seating, here's MP's comments about it:
https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=397307&mpage=1#397307

Make of it what you will, especially considering the changes that have been made to the M&G experience since it was first instituted.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

That's pretty cool that you're friends with MP, Scott. I didn't know that. I haven't been here long though.

I don't have a problem with the idea of the M&G if it's actually a good value, but I guess it may be worth more to some than others. I will say though, despite being human, I would still try to put on a smile. I would like to think I would be happy to be in a band like DT and have people pay just to talk to me, or at the very least say "it's been a rough and tiresome couple of weeks, but we appreciate your support."

Avril Lavigne is a great example of how not to do a meet and greet. Paying to take a picture and not even being able to make physical contact? No thanks. 

[The Curious Orange]

I forked out for the Gold VIP just to get a decent seat. Getting something signed by the band was a bonus I was really excited about - shame it was such a lousy poster. Don't feel any desire to fork out that much just to meet them for a fleeting moment.

[?]

I understand why bands sell (and fans buy) VIP packages and it might be a cool thing, but at the same time I find the notion of paying money to meet someone kind of ridiculous. Personally I've always wanted to keep distance to the musicians I appreciate (not just DT), maybe because I'm afraid they'd turn out to be pricks in person. I'm a shy guy anyway, so the meet-and-greets would be awkward as hell for me

[MoraWintersoul]

M&G is what it is - it's almost an industry standard as to how it works and who attends it. If they didn't have one, people would bitch about them being unwilling to meet their fans. If the number of attendees were restricted by bigger limitations on the number of tickets and/or money, people would complain that it's hard to get in or that it costs way too much. Now, as it is, people complain about them not having time to talk to anyone for real, but then again if they did involve themselves in longer conversations all the time, the rest would complain about some moron not taking the hint and hogging all the talking time

M&G's are regulated the way they are regulated. If it's not worth your money, don't bother buying the ticket, but a band of Dream Theater's size can't exactly have an informal come-all signing session + meetup + acoustic gig + beer tasting + karaoke night in a local record store. Though I'm sure that, if they did, someone would complain that it wasn't informal enough.

[Kwyjibo]

I understand why bands sell (and fans buy) VIP packages and it might be a cool thing, but at the same time I find the notion of paying money to meet someone kind of ridiculous. Personally I've always wanted to keep distance to the musicians I appreciate (not just DT), maybe because I'm afraid they'd turn out to be pricks in person. I'm a shy guy anyway, so the meet-and-greets would be awkward as hell for me

So much this. In principle I understand what it's all about, but for me, the notion to pay to meet someone is beyond me. And that's not just for DT or musicians in general. I'm willing to pay to see/hear them performing but that's it.
And I always like to think that the musicians that I listen to are generally nice and intelligent persons. I know that this is not always so, but I don't want to find out personally.

[The Curious Orange]

I've hung around after shows and met a lot of my favourite musicians. Some of them can be a bit awkward, some of them are really warm and friendly, but they've all signed stuff and chatted.

[genome]

I met MP last week, after the Winery Dogs gig in Camden. He was warm and friendly indeed, especially after such a ridiculously hot gig.