Mike Mangini and Portnoy--daisy picking and skipping through meadows?

[KevShmev]

The only time I remember EVH saying that was when he said that about DLR when Roth told him to stop talking about his hip at that MTV Music Awards where Roth made an ass about himself.  Roth was pissed that Eddie was taking attention away from him by talking about the hip surgery he needed and said something about the lines of, "Tonight's about me, not your f'ing hip." 

It wouldn't surprise me if he recycled that line several times, however.

[BlobVanDam]

He only wanted back in sooner than five years when he realised the band were happy to carry on without him.

That's not true. He tried compromising down to about a year, and they all had plenty of time to think it over and discuss it before MP made his decision. He only left when they couldn't reach a compromise. The idea that MP was blackmailing or bluffing them or any other such terms people have used is ridiculous.

[puppyonacid]

I mean he reneged on the break idea when the band carried on without him. That post was specifically countering one before.

[BlobVanDam]

I mean he reneged on the break idea when the band carried on without him. That post was specifically countering one before.

I don't think he even knew the band had moved on as they had without him when he tried to rejoin.

[Sycsa]

That's not true al all.  JP never told MP that "He better wear a cup" the next time he saw him.

Which reminds me: https://youtu.be/sL9zwX5LzxQ?t=2m23s

[?]

According to JP, MP pretty much told them he wants to join A7X: https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/interview-dream-theaters-john-petrucci-jordan-rudess-on-the-bands-future-442741/ (warning: includes a marriage analogy)

When Mike told you of his plans, did you attempt to change his mind? Did you try to come to some sort of arrangement that would make him happy and keep the band together?

Petrucci: "The biggest thing we did was tell him, 'Don't do that, Mike. It's a mistake.' And we gave him all the reasons you could give to somebody that you're in a band with. See, he wanted to take a long break. He didn't want to leave at first; he wanted to take a five-year break from Dream Theater."

This might be a strange analogy, but it seems akin to a husband leaving his wonderful wife and wanting to run off with –

Petrucci: [laughs] "The younger girl. Right. And she might seem terrific at first, but hey, we told him, 'Mike, this might seem exciting right now, but you're going to wind up unhappy.' We did try to tell him that."

Rudess: "A band member wanting to take a bit of a break is one thing. People are entitled to a break. But Mike wanted to take five years off from Dream Theater. That was a major blow to us. Five years?! That's a big statement. I mean, this is what we do. We enjoy it, we make our livings from it… You can't just stop it cold like that."

Petrucci: "Basically, he was telling us, 'I'm having a good time with this other band. I want to be a part of it.' He didn't want to go right back into Dream Theater, the writing, recording, touring... He thought that we should go away, and then when we came back in five years everybody would welcome us bigger than ever."

I understand that Mike Mangini and Portnoy have a friendship history. I know Mike Portnoy has to be jealous considering he misses being in Dream Theater (assumption--at least want's to be back in...) Anyways, do you think that they dislike each other the least bit - nonetheless Portnoy disliking Mangini? Mangini seemed to be assured that he would keep his position in DT, and that MP would never find his way back. MP found that pretty disrespectful and cocky. There whole friendship has to be ruined.

Mangini has said nothing but positive things about MP in the press and I'm pretty sure he was one of the three who responded to MP's email when he congratulated them on the Grammy nomination. If there's some kind of feud, it's most likely one-sided.

[rumborak]

I mean he reneged on the break idea when the band carried on without him. That post was specifically countering one before.

I don't think he even knew the band had moved on as they had without him when he tried to rejoin.

That's what I'm thinking too. They will have kept their drummer search away from MP as much as from everybody else. From MP's perspective he might have thought that he had let them steam for a while, and now they would badly want him back.

[noahl]

He only wanted back in sooner than five years when he realised the band were happy to carry on without him.

That's not true. He tried compromising down to about a year, and they all had plenty of time to think it over and discuss it before MP made his decision. He only left when they couldn't reach a compromise. The idea that MP was blackmailing or bluffing them or any other such terms people have used is ridiculous.

Thank you!!

[noahl]

According to JP, MP pretty much told them he wants to join A7X: https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/interview-dream-theaters-john-petrucci-jordan-rudess-on-the-bands-future-442741/ (warning: includes a marriage analogy)

When Mike told you of his plans, did you attempt to change his mind? Did you try to come to some sort of arrangement that would make him happy and keep the band together?

Petrucci: "The biggest thing we did was tell him, 'Don't do that, Mike. It's a mistake.' And we gave him all the reasons you could give to somebody that you're in a band with. See, he wanted to take a long break. He didn't want to leave at first; he wanted to take a five-year break from Dream Theater."

This might be a strange analogy, but it seems akin to a husband leaving his wonderful wife and wanting to run off with –

Petrucci: [laughs] "The younger girl. Right. And she might seem terrific at first, but hey, we told him, 'Mike, this might seem exciting right now, but you're going to wind up unhappy.' We did try to tell him that."

Rudess: "A band member wanting to take a bit of a break is one thing. People are entitled to a break. But Mike wanted to take five years off from Dream Theater. That was a major blow to us. Five years?! That's a big statement. I mean, this is what we do. We enjoy it, we make our livings from it… You can't just stop it cold like that."

Petrucci: "Basically, he was telling us, 'I'm having a good time with this other band. I want to be a part of it.' He didn't want to go right back into Dream Theater, the writing, recording, touring... He thought that we should go away, and then when we came back in five years everybody would welcome us bigger than ever."

I understand that Mike Mangini and Portnoy have a friendship history. I know Mike Portnoy has to be jealous considering he misses being in Dream Theater (assumption--at least want's to be back in...) Anyways, do you think that they dislike each other the least bit - nonetheless Portnoy disliking Mangini? Mangini seemed to be assured that he would keep his position in DT, and that MP would never find his way back. MP found that pretty disrespectful and cocky. There whole friendship has to be ruined.

Mangini has said nothing but positive things about MP in the press and I'm pretty sure he was one of the three who responded to MP's email when he congratulated them on the Grammy nomination. If there's some kind of feud, it's most likely one-sided.

That's incorrect, MP got pissed because MM was being cocky.

[noahl]

I mean he reneged on the break idea when the band carried on without him. That post was specifically countering one before.

I don't think he even knew the band had moved on as they had without him when he tried to rejoin.

That's what I'm thinking too. They will have kept their drummer search away from MP as much as from everybody else. From MP's perspective he might have thought that he had let them steam for a while, and now they would badly want him back.

He's a dumbass, I would join DT in a heartbeat.

Just kidding.,. I'm not that great of a drummer.

I understand where Portnoy is coming from. HE NEEDED A DAMN BREAK.

[?]

That's incorrect, MP got pissed because MM was being cocky.

[King Postwhore]

That's incorrect, MP got pissed because MM was being cocky.

WTF?!

[KevShmev]

 

Yeah, he's not trolling.

[BlobVanDam]

That's incorrect, MP got pissed because MM was being cocky.

Ah yeah, I don't think MP got pissed at MM at all (unhappy at having been replaced, but that's not about MM specifically), and MM wasn't being cocky about anything either.

This whole thread (including other people's replies) is a new low for DTF, and that's a pretty tough thing to do.

[noahl]

That's incorrect, MP got pissed because MM was being cocky.

There's an article that I read somewhere that talks about this.

That's incorrect, MP got pissed because MM was being cocky.

WTF?!

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Being a drummer myself MP was a pretty big inspiration to me back in the day. He's done some amazing things within the drum department for prog metal and no one can take those things away from him. But basically already after 6DOIT I started noticing him re-use alot of his fills, grooves and stuff and I started slowly to loose interest in him as a drummer. Found other bands and other drummers alot more creative so I pretty much stopped following DT, although I did listen occasionally on every new release hoping to find some spark but with no really luck.

I remember alot of times before MP left wondering what DT would have sound like with a diffrent drummer because I had so much respect for JP, JR and JM as musicians and thought they had more passion for their respective craft.

So when MP left I felt nothing more than excitment and interest for the future of DT. With all this being said though i'm only talking about MP as a drummer, he of course did so much more for DT and those things is much harder to replace. That was one of the things why I never actually thought MP would leave DT, I just couldn't picture anyone taking over that chair given how much he did for DT besides playing drums.

It did happen and someone replaced him in the form of the amazing MM which I knew of way before the audition. I knew he was capable of handling anything thrown at him. Could he replace the drum icon Mike Portnoy with his huge fanbase? Probably not but he was a refresing thing for DT as a band.

Fast forward 4 years and seeing this whole debate of MP and DT still raving on I almost feel like:

Please Mike Portnoy come back to DT so we can end this neverending topic on DTF.

I didn't mean to sound harsh but I guess i've never been much of a true fan of any band or member meaning that I don't get very emotional when someone leaves a band that I like. I just accept and move on as I do with alot of things I can't control. There's no point getting worked up over something as trivial. That's just my two cents.

[EdenHazard]

That's incorrect, MP got pissed because MM was being cocky.

There's an article that I read somewhere that talks about this.

Sure you did.

[jingle.boy]

This thread made my morning.

That's incorrect, MP got pissed because MM was being cocky.

There's an article that I read somewhere that talks about this.

Sure you did.

I'm sure it was penned by noahl.

[noahl]

This thread made my morning.

That's incorrect, MP got pissed because MM was being cocky.

There's an article that I read somewhere that talks about this.

Sure you did.

I'm sure it was penned by noahl.

Here's the link, richard.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_mangini_portnoys_never_coming_back.html
that's one part,
cannot locate where MP get's pissed, but you get the point.

[EdenHazard]

What the hell, man. Just, what the hell.

"MP is pissed because of MM."
"Why?"
"Read an article. Doesn't say he is pissed, but anyway, enjoy."

[bl5150]

Shit - I need a JD ..............make it a double

[rumborak]

He only wanted back in sooner than five years when he realised the band were happy to carry on without him.

That's not true. He tried compromising down to about a year, and they all had plenty of time to think it over and discuss it before MP made his decision. He only left when they couldn't reach a compromise. The idea that MP was blackmailing or bluffing them or any other such terms people have used is ridiculous.

The "bluff" part came in during the week they gave each other to reconsider. MP wasn't gonna budge about his hiatus, but he expected the rest of DT to budge during that time. After the week his "bluff" was called and he had to actually do what he had threatened too do, i.e. leave DT.

[BlobVanDam]

He only wanted back in sooner than five years when he realised the band were happy to carry on without him.

That's not true. He tried compromising down to about a year, and they all had plenty of time to think it over and discuss it before MP made his decision. He only left when they couldn't reach a compromise. The idea that MP was blackmailing or bluffing them or any other such terms people have used is ridiculous.

The "bluff" part came in during the week they gave each other to reconsider. MP wasn't gonna budge about his hiatus, but he expected the rest of DT to budge during that time. After the week his "bluff" was called and he had to actually do what he had threatened too do, i.e. leave DT.

That's nothing but biased conjecture.

[425]

Honestly, as a fan of both Mike Portnoy and of Dream Theater, I wonder sometimes why there's so much finger-pointing within the fanbase. This was, all things considered, a very amicable split. There were a couple of times when Mike said something he shouldn't have said, sure, but in the context of every other split-up of a band in history? I'm going to list off a few things now that I hope to God we can all agree on:

• Mike Portnoy acted out of what he thought were the best interests of him and the band in calling for a hiatus.
• The rest of the band acted out of the best interests of the band by refusing to take a hiatus. They acted out of what they thought were the best interests of Mike Portnoy by encouraging him to stay.
• Mike Portnoy acted out of what he thought were his own best interests in leaving the band.
• Mike Portnoy was mistaken in believing that leaving the band was in his best interests
• Three current members of Dream Theater have contacted Mike Portnoy since the breakup, at least by responding to his email congratulating them on their Grammy nomination. One of these members is Jordan Rudess. James LaBrie is not one of them.
  
• Mike Portnoy was wrong to jump to conclusions about James LaBrie's statements to the press. As a corollary, Mike Portnoy admitted his mistake and apologized appropriately.
• Mike Portnoy was wrong to, in the years preceding the breakup, make negative comments about the singing of James LaBrie to the press and in public fora.
• Here's the big one: Mike Portnoy, on a fundamental level, does not mean any ill will towards the members of Dream Theater. He does sometimes make public statements that are imprudent and create the impression that he means ill will towards Dream Theater.

Can we all agree on these truths about this breakup, and as a consequence stop pointing fingers at either Dream Theater or Mike Portnoy? Honestly, I think sometimes that the fans have stronger feelings on this matter than the members of the band! I doubt even JLB feels as strongly negative about MP as the anti-MP faction of the fanbase; and I think MP holds little resentment at all towards the band and is not under the impression that he is likely to be rejoining it, in contrast to the views of the "bring back MP" faction of the fanbase

[rumborak]

He only wanted back in sooner than five years when he realised the band were happy to carry on without him.

That's not true. He tried compromising down to about a year, and they all had plenty of time to think it over and discuss it before MP made his decision. He only left when they couldn't reach a compromise. The idea that MP was blackmailing or bluffing them or any other such terms people have used is ridiculous.

The "bluff" part came in during the week they gave each other to reconsider. MP wasn't gonna budge about his hiatus, but he expected the rest of DT to budge during that time. After the week his "bluff" was called and he had to actually do what he had threatened too do, i.e. leave DT.

That's nothing but biased conjecture.

WTF, what part? We *know* MP threatened to leave, we *know* they gave each other a week to think about it, and we *know* that MP then left the band. Where is the conjecture?

[?]

Here's the link, richard.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/mike_mangini_portnoys_never_coming_back.html
that's one part,
cannot locate where MP get's pissed, but you get the point.

Ok, he says MP isn't coming back (which is something the other guys had most likely convinced him about and was 100% obvious anyway), but he also says:

"I don't feel like it's hanging over my head. The reason why is I like Mike very much. He's a friend and I have new brothers in Dream Theater, and when you love somebody you let them do what they need to."

I don't see anything cocky in that, and there's not a single mention of MP being pissed off.

WTF, what part? We *know* MP threatened to leave, we *know* they gave each other a week to think about it, and we *know* that MP then left the band. Where is the conjecture?

I got the impression MP didn't bring up the option of him leaving until after the week had passed and the other guys weren't willing to compromise.

[rumborak]

That's not how I remember it, but maybe my memory is faulty.

[BlobVanDam]

He only wanted back in sooner than five years when he realised the band were happy to carry on without him.

That's not true. He tried compromising down to about a year, and they all had plenty of time to think it over and discuss it before MP made his decision. He only left when they couldn't reach a compromise. The idea that MP was blackmailing or bluffing them or any other such terms people have used is ridiculous.

The "bluff" part came in during the week they gave each other to reconsider. MP wasn't gonna budge about his hiatus, but he expected the rest of DT to budge during that time. After the week his "bluff" was called and he had to actually do what he had threatened too do, i.e. leave DT.

That's nothing but biased conjecture.

WTF, what part? We *know* MP threatened to leave, we *know* they gave each other a week to think about it, and we *know* that MP then left the band. Where is the conjecture?

I don't recall MP "threatening" to leave in the initial discussion (and threaten is such loaded language to begin with), only bringing up the idea of a hiatus, and he did compromise on how long it was going to be. So he'd already "budged" on his initial hiatus idea (just not far enough for the rest of DT to agree to, which was apparently zero, which I can't fault them for), and there is no evidence that he was bluffing to get what he wanted. He was burned out on DT, and him trying to return wasn't backing down on a bluff, it was regretting his decision after other circumstances changed and he had more time to think it over.
Your concept of the split is the truth after being run through the DTF washing machine.

[Tick]

I decided to try this thread with baked ziti and a salad. It pairs well with both.

[rumborak]

I don't recall MP "threatening" to leave in the initial discussion (and threaten is such loaded language to begin with), only bringing up the idea of a hiatus, and he did compromise on how long it was going to be. So he'd already "budged" on his initial hiatus idea (just not far enough for the rest of DT to agree to, which was apparently zero, which I can't fault them for), and there is no evidence that he was bluffing to get what he wanted. He was burned out on DT, and him trying to return wasn't backing down on a bluff, it was regretting his decision after other circumstances changed and he had more time to think it over.
Your concept of the split is the truth after being run through the DTF washing machine.

Not at all. I think you're just whitewashing MP's dominant control over DT in the years leading up to the split. If you take that into account, I think it's obvious that MP thought he had such a strong hand in the gamble that he could make that decision too for them, just as he had made many decisions before.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't recall MP "threatening" to leave in the initial discussion (and threaten is such loaded language to begin with), only bringing up the idea of a hiatus, and he did compromise on how long it was going to be. So he'd already "budged" on his initial hiatus idea (just not far enough for the rest of DT to agree to, which was apparently zero, which I can't fault them for), and there is no evidence that he was bluffing to get what he wanted. He was burned out on DT, and him trying to return wasn't backing down on a bluff, it was regretting his decision after other circumstances changed and he had more time to think it over.
Your concept of the split is the truth after being run through the DTF washing machine.

Not at all. I think you're just whitewashing MP's dominant control over DT in the years leading up to the split. If you take that into account, I think it's obvious that MP thought he had such a strong hand in the gamble that he could that make decision too for them, just as he had made many decisions before.

I'm not "whitewashing" anything, I just don't invent story beyond what the facts actually support or prove. I haven't heard anything from either side to suggest what you are claiming. It all comes down to your opinion of MP's personality, simple as that.

[Madman Shepherd]

[/li][li]Mike Portnoy was wrong to jump to conclusions about James LaBrie's statements to the press. As a corollary, Mike Portnoy admitted his mistake and apologized appropriately.[/li][/list]

No he didn't.  He apologized for believing the out of context headline (from a website he always says never to believe) which is akin to a non-apology. 

[King Postwhore]

I decided to try this thread with baked ziti and a salad. It pairs well with both.

You love the extra cheese I see.

[Hellholming]

all I know is that I prefer Mike's live drumming to Mangini's... Also overall drum parts.

Mike has way more energy.

With that said, the two albums with Mangini are some of their best.

[rumborak]

Hooooly shit, Hellholming!!